Is 7:14
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101G
Well-Known Member
Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."
Matthew 1:24 "Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:"
Matthew 1:25 "And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS."
well that ended any Perpetual of any Virginship for Mary. that ship is sunk.
PICJAG.
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Matthew 1:24 "Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:"
Matthew 1:25 "And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS."
well that ended any Perpetual of any Virginship for Mary. that ship is sunk.
PICJAG.
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Are you kidding? Get real!
man only son is also first born!
until? Does the Bible say the had sex?
Until only means until that point in time, it does not imply anything after that time!
Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow)
There goes your until!!!
man only son is also first born!
until? Does the Bible say the had sex?
Until only means until that point in time, it does not imply anything after that time!
Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow)
There goes your until!!!
2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?
Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?
Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”
My View!
Perpetual Virginity of Mary!
The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!
And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!
Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)
Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”
(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)
Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)
Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (does James save his people?)
Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!
Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)
Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)
Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)
Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.
2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?
Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!
First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!
Brothers and sisters of Jesus?
They are not the children of Mary!
The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers, but they don’t all have the same mother.
Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)
James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3
In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.
Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..
Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.
Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!
Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!
Perpetual Virginity of Mary!
The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!
And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!
Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)
Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”
(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)
Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)
Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (does James save his people?)
Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!
Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)
Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)
Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)
Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.
2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?
Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!
First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!
Brothers and sisters of Jesus?
They are not the children of Mary!
The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers, but they don’t all have the same mother.
Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)
James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3
In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.
Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..
Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.
Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!
Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!
101G
Well-Known Member
Mary is not a Virgin, Matthew 1:25 "And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS."
knew here is to have sex, and if a woman or a man have sex they are no longer a virgin.
and as for Mary's other children, Galatians 1:19 "But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother."
PICJAG.
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
101G
Well-Known Member
Matthew 13:53 "And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed thence."
Matthew 13:54 "And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?"
Matthew 13:55 "Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?"
Matthew 13:56 "And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?"
PICJAG.
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
These are not the children of Mary as I answered above?
so is Jesus the son of Joseph?
Mt 13:55
Jn 1:45
or do you believe in the Virgin birth?
so is Jesus the son of Joseph?
Mt 13:55
Jn 1:45
or do you believe in the Virgin birth?
101G
Well-Known Member
first thanks for the reply, second I believe in the virgin Birth of the flesh JESUS came in, but I also believe that mary is no virgin. not after the birth of that flesh.
now, this,
Acts 12:12 "And when he had considered the thing, he came to the house of Mary the mother of John, whose surname was Mark; where many were gathered together praying.
but before this James the (greater) was killed and Peter put in prison to be killed.
Acts 12:1 "Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church.
Acts 12:2 "And he killed James the brother of John with the sword.
Acts 12:3 "And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.)
Acts 12:4 "And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.
Acts 12:5 "Peter therefore was kept in prison: but prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto God for him.
Acts 12:17 "But he, beckoning unto them with the hand to hold their peace, declared unto them how the Lord had brought him out of the prison. And he said, Go shew these things unto James, and to the brethren. And he departed, and went into another place”.
James the (greater, has been killed in verse 2, by Herod the king, but did Peter knew about James the (greater death). apparently not, for maybe Peter would not been so freely imprison.
PICJAG.
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
101G
Well-Known Member
@theefaith, did you understand what I said?
PICJAG.
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
do you know who Cleophas or Alphaeus is?..... (smile). I'll wait,
PICJAG.
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
I showed above the are not children of Mary!
Matthew 27:56
Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedees children.
Mark 15:40
There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
the Bible also say Mary has a sister named Mary! But it’s her sister in law and not sister! Jn 19:25
Abraham and lot are called brothers but are uncle and nephew
any close relation in Hebrew culture can be called brother or sister
How can there be a Virgin birth and Joseph be the father of Jesus?
Matthew 27:56
Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedees children.
Mark 15:40
There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
the Bible also say Mary has a sister named Mary! But it’s her sister in law and not sister! Jn 19:25
Abraham and lot are called brothers but are uncle and nephew
any close relation in Hebrew culture can be called brother or sister
How can there be a Virgin birth and Joseph be the father of Jesus?
101G
Well-Known Member
look theefaith, let me help you out,
The Book of John
John 19:25 "Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
#1. one thing this verse do is eliminates the Lord’s Mother “Mary” from the “Mary” of James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? (smile, but are we sure of this), Matthew 13:55 "Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
#2. so the “Mary” here, the wife of Cleophas children James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas. and the James here is the (lesser)
#3. the question now remain what type of sister is the “Mary” Cleophas wife is to the “Mary” the mother of Jesus.
NOW DO YOUSELF A FAVOR, Read Gill’s commentary on John 19:25 and see the revelation.
I told you plainly before, but you didn't listen.
PICJAG.
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Sister in law and not biological sister which proves what I said any close relative can be called brother or sister including cousins
101G
Well-Known Member
(smile) read it again, ok I'll paste it for you. and highlight for you
there is no “and” in between the two Mary’s.
and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas. The Syriac, Persic, and Ethiopic versions distinguish Mary the wife of Cleophas from his mother's sister, by placing the copulative and between them, and so make two persons; whereas one and the same is intended, and who was the sister of Mary, the mother of Christ; not her own sister, for it is not likely that two sisters should be of the same name; but her husband Joseph's sister, and so her's; or else Cleophas was Joseph's brother, as Eusebius from Hegesippus says {k}: and who was also not the daughter of Cleophas, as the Arabic version has here supplied it; much less the mother of him; but his wife, as is rightly put in our translation: for, according to the other evangelists, she was the mother of James and Joses, and who were the sons of Cleophas or Alphaeus; which are not the names of two persons, nor two names of one and the same person, but one and the same name differently pronounced; his true name in Hebrew was חלפי, or חלפאי, or חילפי, "Chelphi", or "Chelphai", or "Chilphi", a name frequently to be met with in Talmudic and Rabbinic writings; and so a Jewish writer {l} observes, that חילפא והוא אילפא, "Chilpha is the same as Ilpha"; and in Greek may be pronounced either Cleophas, or Alphaeus, as it is both ways: ignorance of this has led interpreters to form different conjectures, as that either the husband of this Mary had two names; or that she was twice married to two different persons, once to Alphaeus, and after his death to Cleophas; or that Cleophas was her father, and Alphaeus her husband; for neither of which is there any foundation. She was no doubt a believer in Christ, and came and stood by his cross; not merely to keep her sister company, but out of affection to Jesus, and to testify her faith in him.
PICJAG.
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
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