Is Christ now only a spirt or still a resurrected man

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lforrest

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So funny I was thinking about posting a thread asking all to add what is spirirt and what is flesh daily. Most of what Christins do is flesh I would say well over 90% flesh daily. Is how we live.

I think that would be an interesting topic. Breakdown some everyday occurrence into flesh and spirit. Also beneficial and not beneficial. Some things are flesh and beneficial temporarily, such as eating and drinking.
 

Helen

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Yes, Jesus has a physical body in heaven. (Acts 1:9-11)

Stranger

I agree with this. He is unlimited..His body can walk through walls..He can be where He likes...He is both Spirit and a spiritual glorified flesh.
But that is not limiting as He .... "the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God,... The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace..."
Nothing detracts from that.
 

Helen

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So funny I was thinking about posting a thread asking all to add what is spirirt and what is flesh daily. Most of what Christins do is flesh I would say well over 90% flesh daily. Is how we live.

Amen...God for it Sword...do it!!
It may well be good for us all to see just how much we still live and move in the flesh over the Spirit!!
It is if we can all be honest :)
 

Helen

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Not quite sure why this is so hard to grasp.
The Angel of the Lord wrestled with Jacob.
Three angels appeared to Abraham " as strangers" then went to Sodom to lead Lot out.
An Angel appeared to Samsons parents and 'ate'what they prepared.
We think too small when we limit the unsearchable things on God.
God can be whatever He wishes to be...and however He wishes to appear to us at any given time.
We serve a wonderful God!!
 

ScottA

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So funny I was thinking about posting a thread asking all to add what is spirirt and what is flesh daily. Most of what Christins do is flesh I would say well over 90% flesh daily. Is how we live.
Indeed. I would venture to say that much of the arguments that we see in churches and places like this, is due to the flesh warring against the spirit. It would be nice to send a message to non-Christian onlookers and seekers, that this should be considered normal and to be expected, part of our purpose of being here in the world, and all the more reason to join in the struggle for the support one needs to endure it.
 
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Peanut

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1 Corinthians 15 (KJV)
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?

31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.


King James Version (KJV)
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Peanut

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Not quite sure why this is so hard to grasp.
The Angel of the Lord wrestled with Jacob.
Three angels appeared to Abraham " as strangers" then went to Sodom to lead Lot out.
An Angel appeared to Samsons parents and 'ate'what they prepared.
We think too small when we limit the unsearchable things on God.
God can be whatever He wishes to be...and however He wishes to appear to us at any given time.
We serve a wonderful God!!
And yet, we in our current mortal limited consciousness do argue according to our understanding as to what God can and cannot do.

Jesus taught always in parables. The Bible, by Jesus' example, is not to be taken literally when teaching things of the spirit. Symbolism is key in scripture. Allegory, metaphor, idioms, parables.
Getting the big picture using constructs our consciousness understands now .

When God is a Spirit, the Holy Spirit, how can we think Jesus, who was God when he was on earth, is still a man in Heaven?
Even a man shaped spirit. God made humanity in his image and likeness when he breathed into Adam and Adam became a living soul. Soul.
How would God/Jesus return to Heaven in our image and likeness? Glorified as flesh? When flesh was created in the beginning by a Holy Spirit?
 

Peanut

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Was Jesus' resurrected body the same as his glorified body that he now has in heaven?
6 replies @ Christianity Stackexchange. However, this one is very valid I think.
"St. Thomas Aquinas addressed this pretty deeply, and as I suspected, his answer was yes, Our Lord's risen body was a glorified one. Although it differed in glory in some way from His body in Heaven.

I answer that, Christ's was a glorified body in His Resurrection, and this is evident from three reasons. First of all, because His Resurrection was the exemplar and the cause of ours, as is stated in 1 Corinthians 15:43. But in the resurrection the saints will have glorified bodies, as is written in the same place: "It is sown in dishonor, it shall rise in glory." Hence, since the cause is mightier than the effect, and the exemplar than the exemplate; much more glorious, then, was the body of Christ in His Resurrection. Secondly, because He merited the glory of His Resurrection by the lowliness of His Passion. Hence He said (John 12:27): "Now is My soul troubled," which refers to the Passion; and later He adds: "Father, glorify Thy name," whereby He asks for the glory of the Resurrection. Thirdly, because as stated above (Question 34, Article 4), Christ's soul was glorified from the instant of His conception by perfect fruition of the Godhead. But, as stated above (14, 1, ad 2), it was owing to the Divine economy that the glory did not pass from His soul to His body, in order that by the Passion He might accomplish the mystery of our redemption. Consequently, when this mystery of Christ's Passion and death was finished, straightway the soul communicated its glory to the risen body in the Resurrection; and so that body was made glorious.

[summa theologica part 3 question 54 article 3 ]( SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: The quality of Christ rising again (Tertia Pars, Q. 54))

One good, convincing point St Thomas makes is that in no way could one consider Jesus' body given to corruption after His resurrection. He did as He chose. He came and went as He pleased. He appeared in the manner which He desired."

More replies at link
 

Sword

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I think that would be an interesting topic. Breakdown some everyday occurrence into flesh and spirit. Also beneficial and not beneficial. Some things are flesh and beneficial temporarily, such as eating and drinking.
Yep I think we all could add to it and point out what it is in each case. Flesh or spirit. It might well run for a while.
 

bbyrd009

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you might examine both sides, as "beneficial" to one is invariably "not beneficial" to someone else, re feeding the homeless in Dallas, etc
 

ScottA

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Silly... Of course, if we "go to the Father" as Christ did - only that which is glorified will go.

But some do indeed say, But what of Christ's body, and what of the body of the believer? Again, this too is silly... Foolish ones, we are Christ's body. Is Christ not glorified? And if we are His body, are we not glorified also? Of course we are!

But others will say, So, then, does Christ spend eternity as a bodiless Head, and we as headless bodies? Heavens no! Are we so attached to our flesh that we cannot understand that just as The Father is the Head of Christ, whom men have seen in the flesh having a head, the image of God - we too, are made in His image - with heads!

Please understand... The flesh, which is passing away, is not greater than the spirit, but the spirit greater than the flesh. And it is the spirit, and not the flesh, that is capable of manifesting into the full image of God. The flesh profits nothing.
 
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Peanut

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Silly... Of course, if we "go to the Father" as Christ did - only that which is glorified will go.

But some do indeed say, But what of Christ's body, and what of the body of the believer? Again, this too is silly... Foolish ones, we are Christ's body. Is Christ not glorified? And if we are His body, are we not glorified also? Of course we are!

But others will say, So, then, does Christ spend eternity as a bodiless Head, and we as headless bodies? Heavens no! Are we so attached to our flesh that we cannot understand that just as The Father is the Head of Christ, whom men have seen in the flesh having a head, the image of God - we too, are made in His image - with heads!

Please understand... The flesh, which is passing away, is not greater than the spirit, but the spirit greater than the flesh. And it is the spirit, and not the flesh, that is capable of manifesting into the full image of God. The flesh profits nothing.

Simple truth is not always so simple. :) Well said. God Bless.
 

KBCid

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That certainly sounds like a more merciful way to me ( destroying them rather than them burning in some hell hole somewhere forever )... I can't help but shudder every time I think of all the people who don't want a bar of what we are trying to share with them, and MOSTLY because they can't dis-associate Jesus from religion ( and all that conjures up in the average persons mind ), which shows what a very sad state the self proclaimed church and all the offspring is actually in. I mean we need to think.......What good can possibly come out of an institution which does it's best to alienate everyone.. I admit, some have tried in the past decade or so, to apologize for all their previous mistakes, but if they really meant it, THEY WOULD CHANGE, and they would then be able to bring the lost in... Oh yes, one can only dream !

God is love. Who would gain the most in making people believe the God of love would eternally torture those who have failed?
Most people have the teachings of men in their heads and no amount of scriptural references seem to matter one bit even though we are commanded to live by every word of God and to test the spirits against the scriptures to discern the evil from the good.

How many Christians even know what the first words of God were?
 
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Peanut

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God is love. Who would gain the most in making people believe the God of love would eternally torture those who have failed?
Most people have the teachings of men in their heads and no amount of scriptural references seem to matter one bit even though we are commanded to live by every word of God and to test the spirits against the scriptures to discern the evil from the good.

How many Christians can even know what the first words of God were?
How many Christians know The Word, is God.
While the word of God is man?
 

KBCid

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I don't know where you're getting the impetus to make claims that the scripture does not lie. I've not read anyone here who imparts the notion that they do. Are you taking the Bible literally?

If the story as told is not taken as reality then it would be considered a lie. The parts of God's word that are meant to be taken literally are indeed to be taken literally, those that are an allegory or parable are taken as such. This is where one must pray for the understanding to divide God's word correctly.
 

Stranger

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And yet, we in our current mortal limited consciousness do argue according to our understanding as to what God can and cannot do.

Jesus taught always in parables. The Bible, by Jesus' example, is not to be taken literally when teaching things of the spirit. Symbolism is key in scripture. Allegory, metaphor, idioms, parables.
Getting the big picture using constructs our consciousness understands now .

When God is a Spirit, the Holy Spirit, how can we think Jesus, who was God when he was on earth, is still a man in Heaven?
Even a man shaped spirit. God made humanity in his image and likeness when he breathed into Adam and Adam became a living soul. Soul.
How would God/Jesus return to Heaven in our image and likeness? Glorified as flesh? When flesh was created in the beginning by a Holy Spirit?

Where do you get that Jesus always taught in parables?

The Bible, by Jesus example is to be taken literally.

Your last paragraph makes no sense.

Stranger
 
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Stranger

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I agree with this. He is unlimited..His body can walk through walls..He can be where He likes...He is both Spirit and a spiritual glorified flesh.
But that is not limiting as He .... "the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God,... The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace..."
Nothing detracts from that.

Indeed, Jesus Christ is God and Man. He is the GodMan.

Stranger
 

ScottA

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If the story as told is not taken as reality then it would be considered a lie. The parts of God's word that are meant to be taken literally are indeed to be taken literally, those that are an allegory or parable are taken as such. This is where one must pray for the understanding to divide God's word correctly.
If I may interject:

That is only true in context...and there are two: one of the world, and one of God.

We are told that, not just the parables are parables, but "All things come in parables." In other words, what we, being of the world, are inclined to call "reality", is not the reality of God, but is limited to this manifest finite aside, the image of things on high. We have no choice but to consider, therefore, that all things are more a form of subjective media, rather than the things of space, time, and matter that we consider to be reliable constants. Thus, it is rather the message that is important...which is the case with all parables.
 

Helen

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Where do you get that Jesus always taught in parables?

The Bible, by Jesus example is to be taken literally.


Stranger

Yes Agree ...Jesus did not "always" speak in parables, far from it. He used them, but not always.

Again, I don't see the issue as "a beach to die upon." I believe what I believe , and others are free not to agree....and that does not make either side of the argument 'right.' I never understand why some people worry about it and just have to 'prove their point'. Life is too short to get stressed over things. :D
 
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