Is Christ now only a spirt or still a resurrected man

[Stranger]

Peanut

No they don't. Jesus did use a parabel prior to (Matt. 13), but not of the kingdom. And, when a parable is so used it is identified as such. In other words, you don't get to interpret the Bible as a 'parable'.

And who is denying miracles? I'm not.

Stranger

 

[pia]

Reading this sort of stuff by believers is absolutely heart breaking. Here is Jesus, having done ALL, so that Adams curse could be lifted and God could once again commune with us and we with Him, through the Risen Christ and The Holy Spirit.... All these arbitrary arguments of what happened a couple of thousand years ago, (who said what to whom, who meant what in what they said?) , while COMPLETELY neglecting to be taught by and through Him NOW... What is the story ? How many here believe that He is resurrected at all ? How many believe that He is only in Heaven ( as I guess I once thought ).
God didn't go through and allow mankind to go through (since the garden ) all that has happened, nor would He have had to sort out our sin Himself, if we were still just supposed to go to some temple and have some man read out a bunch of written words ( Jesus made it quite clear to the Pharisees that they didn't understand The Law nor The Prophets, thus they misunderstood what they called scripture )..To still follow after laws and precepts........ No, He has made it possible for EVERY person who is WILLING, to come to Him, to have an intimate , personal relationship with Him. But it seems to me, that quite a few people here would baulk at that, they simply do not see Jesus as alive, and somehow they think that we mere men (mankind) can read, and understand, what was spoken to specific people at a specific time and then translate that into being an instrument of The Lord today, where we have whole lot of other problems ( as well as a few old ones still hanging around ) ?
How can He use anyone, if they first of all REFUSE to come to Him ? He would have to stand in opposition to Himself, and He simply cannot do that. Let us learn to walk TOGETHER with Him, so that we may truly learn the Truth, the Truth that sets us wholly free and makes us fit for the Masters use...... Pia

 

[Peanut]

Peanut

No they don't. Jesus did use a parabel prior to (Matt. 13), but not of the kingdom. And, when a parable is so used it is identified as such. In other words, you don't get to interpret the Bible as a 'parable'.

And who is denying miracles? I'm not.

Stranger

I've never said the things you're accusing.

What I did say is that Jesus always taught in parables. The scriptures prove that out. And he taught using miracles.

 

[Peanut]

Reading this sort of stuff by believers is absolutely heart breaking. Here is Jesus, having done ALL, so that Adams curse could be lifted and God could once again commune with us and we with Him, through the Risen Christ and The Holy Spirit.... All these arbitrary arguments of what happened a couple of thousand years ago, (who said what to whom, who meant what in what they said?) , while COMPLETELY neglecting to be taught by and through Him NOW... What is the story ? How many here believe that He is resurrected at all ? How many believe that He is only in Heaven ( as I guess I once thought ).
God didn't go through and allow mankind to go through (since the garden ) all that has happened, nor would He have had to sort out our sin Himself, if we were still just supposed to go to some temple and have some man read out a bunch of written words ( Jesus made it quite clear to the Pharisees that they didn't understand The Law nor The Prophets, thus they misunderstood what they called scripture )..To still follow after laws and precepts........ No, He has made it possible for EVERY person who is WILLING, to come to Him, to have an intimate , personal relationship with Him. But it seems to me, that quite a few people here would baulk at that, they simply do not see Jesus as alive, and somehow they think that we mere men (mankind) can read, and understand, what was spoken to specific people at a specific time and then translate that into being an instrument of The Lord today, where we have whole lot of other problems ( as well as a few old ones still hanging around ) ?
How can He use anyone, if they first of all REFUSE to come to Him ? He would have to stand in opposition to Himself, and He simply cannot do that. Let us learn to walk TOGETHER with Him, so that we may truly learn the Truth, the Truth that sets us wholly free and makes us fit for the Masters use...... Pia

Who here has said Jesus is dead? I missed that post.

 

[pia]

Who here has said Jesus is dead? I missed that post.

I didn't say that... I asked if people only saw Him as In Heaven ? Not able to be WITH us...

 

[Stranger]

I've never said the things you're accusing.

What I did say is that Jesus always taught in parables. The scriptures prove that out. And he taught using miracles.

When you say Jesus always taught in parables you're saying whenever Jesus taught it was in parables. If that is not what you are saying fine. Then say that.

Say, Jesus did not always teach in parables. Which of course means you don't interpret everything Jesus said as a parable.

Stranger

 

[KBCid]

If Christ only taught in parables and we should not take them literally then, what does this teaching / parable really say?

Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[KBCid]

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him,

 

[Helen]

What I did say is that Jesus always taught in parables. The scriptures prove that out. And he taught using miracles.

Until now I have stayed out of this, as Stranger had it.

But, I must say now...Just go and read ALL of Matthew chapter 5 chapter 6 and chapter seven for starters... there is not one parable in any... and Jesus spoke every of these chapters. 111 verses, not one in parables.
Not one parable in all of Jesus words in all of John 14.
Enough said...you get the drift.

 

[pia]

Until now I have stayed out of this, as Stranger had it.

But, I must say now...Just go and read ALL of Matthew chapter 5 chapter 6 and chapter seven for starters... there is not one parable in any... and Jesus spoke every of these chapters. 111 verses, not one in parables.
Not one parable in all of Jesus words in all of John 14.
Enough said...you get the drift.

John 14 is actually one section I have read a lot. I love reading Jesus' prayer to our Father. for sure ByGrace that is no parable.

 

[Peanut]

Until now I have stayed out of this, as Stranger had it.

But, I must say now...Just go and read ALL of Matthew chapter 5 chapter 6 and chapter seven for starters... there is not one parable in any... and Jesus spoke every of these chapters. 111 verses, not one in parables.
Not one parable in all of Jesus words in all of John 14.
Enough said...you get the drift.

Yes, enough said. You're not aware of what a parable is? When a proverb can be very similar.
Matthew 5 is a parable.
"Ye have heard....."
"But I say....."

 

[Peanut]

PDF
PARABLE MIRACLE & SIGN
C. H. WELCH
Matthew & John considered dispensationally
THE BEREAN PUBLISHING TRUST
52a Wilson Street, London EC2A 2ER England

[Sic]"...POSTSCRIPT
We have now considered The Parables, Miracles and Signs of the Gospels according to Matthew and John, and
believe that sufficient evidence is now before the reader to enable him to perceive that the parables of Matthew


primarily deal with two aspects of the ‘kingdom’, and that the miracles equally with the parables belong to the same
phase of the purpose of the ages. We have seen also the peculiar purpose behind the selection of the eight signs in
John, and have considered the scope of both the Gospels of Matthew and of John.
There remains the opening of the heart and understanding which is the prerogative of the Lord alone, but the
prayers of all those concerned with the publication of this volume go with it, that many a reader may be impelled,
after reading what has been written, to seek more fully to know the truth as it pertains to the present time, and
particularly for the Gentiles today.

The mysteries of the kingdom of heaven we saw turned upon Israel’s rejection of the Lord, in the land, while
THE MYSTERY of the present dispensation turns upon Israel’s blindness as recorded in Acts 28, when the hope of
Israel was temporarily suspended, the olive tree cut down, and the nation became ‘Lo-ammi’, ‘Not My people’.
In Matthew 13 the Lord uttered things that had been kept secret from the foundation of the world (Matt. 13:35).
In Ephesians the apostle reveals a secret purpose that had been made and hid before the foundation of the world
(Eph. 1:4; see also Col. 1:26).

If the Lord could say of these earthly things, ‘Blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and
have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them’ (Matt. 13:16,17), how much
more can we say, ‘Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who hath blessed us with all spiritual
blessings in heavenly places in Christ’ and rejoice in that superlative revelation that even principalities and powers
in heavenly places are learning through the church the manifold wisdom of God (Eph. 1:3; 3:10).
‘HE THAT HATH EARS TO HEAR, LET HIM HEAR’. "

 

[Helen]

Matthew 5 is a parable.
"Ye have heard....."
"But I say....."

Sorry....we will just have to disagree on this.
I am perfectly aware of what a parable is...and Matt 5 is no such animal.
But, as I say , we will just have agree to differ on this one.

 

[Helen]

To Peanut.
PS, The more you write in trying to persuade us differently ( even writing it larger,) still does not give any extra weight to your argument.
Saying it every which way from Sunday does not strengthen your argument either.

"A man convinced against his will , is of the same persuasion still"
Mary Wollstonecraft (1759-1797)

Peace.

 

[Peanut]

To Peanut.
PS, The more you write in trying to persuade us differently ( even writing it larger,) still does not give any extra weight to your argument.
Saying it every which way from Sunday does not strengthen your argument either.

"A man convinced against his will , is of the same persuasion still"
Mary Wollstonecraft (1759-1797)

Peace.

Please don't attempt to berate the font size I use in my posts. It's petty.
I use larger font because I've been made aware that if I use color some people have a difficulty reading smaller font. I use larger font even in black so as to make reading easier for all

Furthermore, since you decided to write that post script, I find it absolutely astonishing the attitude you and others here have in matters of hubris and ego. You and some other demonstrate a dedicated commitment to not admitting what you do not know about scripture. And as you show in this petty Post Script effort at a jab, commit more to defending by petty methods the fact you are unlearned in some areas of Apologetics, as do others, rather than openly with a good heart seek to gain an education so as to correct that ignorance. And from more learned persons. Like myself and others here.

Make no mistake, that is no slight. It is recognizing what is openly posting and for some time now since I joined. And it is well to recognize it for what it is. Because it all serves to further the teachings of Christ.
I thank you for the Mary Wollstonecraft quote. It is a God send that describes the crux of that matter perfectly.

 

[Helen]

Wow, Peanut, you obviously don't like anyone disagreeing with you!!
Breath deeply...it's good for you.

Please don't keep telling me what I don't understand about the scriptures.
It changes nothing.


...you are entitled to your opinion...because that is what it is...I don't have to agree.

*As I already said...we will just have to agree to differ on it.

( If we can't both disagree agreeably, then we aren't very mature. )

 

[pia]

Wow, Peanut, you obviously don't like anyone disagreeing with you!!
Breath deeply...it's good for you.

Please don't keep telling me what I don't understand about the scriptures.
It changes nothing.


...you are entitled to your opinion...because that is what it is...I don't have to agree.

*As I already said...we will just have to agree to differ on it.

( If we can't both disagree agreeably, then we aren't very mature. )

Hello ByGrace.......... I must say you have handled all of this like a trooper.....It isn't easy at times, is it ? We live in the simplicity of Christ with us, it's probably a lot harder for those who have to try to figure it all out on their own.. Wish they would realize that they don't have to

 

[KBCid]

The Parables of Jesus can be found in all the gospels, except for John, and in some of the non-canonical gospels, but are located mainly within the three synoptic gospels. They represent a key part of the teachings of Jesus, forming approximately one third of his recorded teachings.
Parables of Jesus - Wikipedia

Though the meanings of parables taught by Christ may have been veiled to many peoples understanding, the knowledge that a parable was being told was not veiled to them or us. here is the list of Christ's parables along with their locations according to Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary.

1. The speck and the log Matt 7:1 Luke 6:37
2. The two houses Matt 7:24 Luke 6:47
3. Children in the marketplace Matt 11:16 Luke 7:32
4. The two debtors Luke 7:41
5. The unclean spirit Matt 12:43 Luke 11:24
6. The rich man’s meditation Luke 12:16
7. The barren fig tree Luke 13:6
8. The sower Matt 13; 3 Mark 4:3 Luke 8:5
9. The tares Matt 13:24
10. The seed Mark 4:20
11. The grain of mustard seed Matt 13:31 Mark 4:31 Luke 13:19
12. The leaven Matt 13:33 Luke 13:21
13. The lamp Matt 5:15 Mark 4:21 Luke 8:16 11:33
14. The dragnet Matt 13:47
15. The hidden treasure Matt 13:44
16. The pearl of great value Matt 13:45
17. The householder Matt 13:52
18. The marriage Matt 9:15 Mark 2:19 Luke 5:34
19. The patched garment Matt 9:16 Mark 2:21 Luke 5:36
20. The wine bottles Matt 9:17 Mark 2:22 Luke 5:37
21. The harvest Matt 9:37 Luke 10:2
22. The opponent Matt 5:25 Luke 12:58
23. Two insolvent debtors Matt 18:23
24. The Good Samaritan Luke 10:30
25. The three loaves Luke 11:5
26. The good shepherd John 10:1
27. The narrow gate Matt 7:14; Luke 13:24
28. The guests Luke 14:7
29. The great banquet Matt 22:2 Luke 14:16
30. The wedding clothes Matt 22:10
31. The tower Luke 14:28
32. The king going to war Luke 14:31
33. The lost sheep Matt 18:12 Luke 15:4
34. The lost coin Luke 15:8
35. The prodigal son Luke 15:11
36. The unjust steward Luke 16:1
37. The slave’s duty Luke 17:7
38. Laborers in the vineyard Matt 20:1
39. The talents Matt 25:14 Luke 19:11
40. The importunate widow Luke 18:2
41. The Pharisee and tax-gatherer Luke 18:10
42. The two sons Matt 21:28
43. The wicked vine-growers Matt 21:33 Mark 12:1 Luke 20:9
44. The fig tree Matt 24:32; Mark 13:28 Luke 21:29
45. The watching slave Matt 24:43 Luke 12:39
46. The man on a journey Mark 13:34
47. Character of two slaves Matt 24:45 Luke 12:42
48. The ten virgins Matt 25:1
49. The watching slaves Luke 12:36
50. The vine and branches John 15:1

Since Christ taught much more than just those parables then anyone who asserts that Christ always taught in parables is a liar.

Jesus taught always in parables.

A quick example is;

Matthew 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. 19When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. 20But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. 22He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. 23But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Christ taught his disciples the meanings of that which was hidden to others. Apparently the veil of this truth is still in place for some.

 

[KBCid]

It is obvious that there are some people who are still veiled to the correct understandings of God's word and no matter what evidences are brought to their attention from God's word it is simply denied or asserted to not hold the meaning that God has clearly meant for it. In the passage below is a prophecy from God to HIS PEOPLE and he specifically states that he will reform their bodies and he will put their life back into those bodies and that they shall live because God will put his spirit in their bodies as well. This was an old testament prophecy BTW.
In the new testament the entire concept of the Holy spirit being added to the believer as a helper to them brought clarity to the meaning of the old testament prophecy and it clarified who God meant by "O my people". God's people would be comprised of both Jew and gentile and the gentiles would be those grafted into Israel to become part of the original church created by God.


Ezekiel 37:1 The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones, 2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest.
4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.

Notice that God states "and I shall place you in your own land". This describes the second Adam, just as the first Adam was placed into eden so will the second Adam be placed on the new (redeemed) earth. In that time will this prophecy be fulfilled;

Isaiah 11:6The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. 9They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It is obvious that there are some people who are still veiled to the correct understandings of God's word

Yes! Ezekiel was told to prophesy to dry bones.

But I am not sure I agree with the argument of that the parables you listed are the only parables in His word. Maybe I misunderstand what a parable is. I don't do well with definitions for the mecanics of metaphors, parables...etc. I can not tell you one from another. But for some reason God brought me into a relationship five years ago and allowed me to know Him as author when none of those things had ever been on my radar before then. A parable is to take something different and use it to explain something profound and otherwise hard to grasp, correct? Take for instance: the sower of the seed. We argue it to be a made up story(a fable)to demonstrate truth: yet truth is; God sowed the seed, and Satan sowed the tares. Truth is; seed is real in both cases: spiritual and physical seed. There is a rich man, and a poor man without the gate; physically and spiritually.

Psalm 19:1-5 KJV
[1] The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. [2] Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. [3] There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. [4] Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, [5] Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.

The temporal demonstrate heaven.
The creation is a parable. to demonstrate what surpasses our understanding. Earth(in its fallen state)is temporal. Marriage is temporal; giving clarity and insight to the marriage and relationship we have, and will have, in Christ. Marriage is prophetic; same as Ezekiel speaking to dry bones. marriage is prophesy of the enternal (lasting) relationship which is why Paul urged us to keep these roles of man and wife; even though we are all free (no Jew, no slave, no male, no female...only those in Christ- His bride) because it is prophetic. Everything temporal gives clarity and insight to the eternal(lasting).

Psalm 78:2-4 KJV
[2] I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old: [3] Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us. [4] We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the Lord , and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done.


Proverbs 26:7 KJV
[7] The legs of the lame are not equal: so is a parable in the mouth of fools.

Job 27:1 KJV
[1] Moreover Job continued his parable, and said,

Job 26:6-13 KJV
[6] Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering. [7] He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing. [8] He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them. [9] He holdeth back the face of his throne, and spreadeth his cloud upon it. [10] He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end. [11] The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof. [12] He divideth the sea with his power, and by his understanding he smiteth through the proud. [13] By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.


In case you have never considered it, and maybe you don't care to: author comes from the word authority: HE is the author and finisher of our faith. The Judge...our Deliverer.

discipline to disciple.

How can we pin an Almighty God's language down and contain it neatly within a box...when His Word runs deeper than any man can understand...apart from the Sprit??!