Is Drinking a sin?

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robert derrick

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"I think we can agree that people see what they want to see in scripture."

Yes, and they declare alcohol to be a sin. I know I have seen no scripture stating that alcohol in itself is a sin, outside of the obvious decieved abuse thereof in lustful drunkenness, revelry, riotous living, and pagan ceremony.

To compare that with a Christian family at dinner having some wine with their meal is False Accusation of the brethren of a particularly self-righteous sort.

And such are neither invited into my home, nor do I bid Godspeed to (2 John)

Except they repent of trying to push off their personal rules on others. They need to be as sober-minded in Scripture, as they congratulate themselves of being without any drink of alcohol in their lives.
 

robert derrick

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"Everybody that I know, friends and family members, that have followed that path into later years have major issues with one or more of those categories directly related to alcohol consumption"

directly related to alcohol consumption to food consumption to sex consumption to love of money consumption...

Perhaps you ought try observing sober-minded of full age Scripture who do drink and not to excess, because they know how to make difference between good and evil, drinking and drunkenness.

Methinks, you have been observing the wrong people to be examples for your making of rule and law for everyone else.
 

GEN2REV

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Nice try and neat maneuver, me bucko, ...

Bucko?? ...

Why Johnny, ... are we cross?

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Jesus was not pimping wine for the drunkards, that he came to save.

Once again, I agree with you ... but for different reasons.

I don't believe Jesus made alcohol, ... or served it, ... or drank it.
 

robert derrick

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"Everybody that I know, friends and family members, that have followed that path into later years have major issues with one or more of those categories directly related to alcohol consumption"

God never told preachers to tell others what sin is, but to only tell them what God says sin is.

Which certainly includes not making up and preaching law that is by observation of the world.

That is simply childish.
 

robert derrick

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Bucko?? ...

Why Johnny, ... are we cross?

d33aa12c9d0edce41788e3f36bd21bd4.jpg



Once again, I agree with you ... but for different reasons.

I don't believe Jesus made alcohol, ... or served it, ... or drank it.
Me bucko is what I say to those I want to remain friendly with, even while we have real disagreement over important matters.

When it comes to teaching the law of God, what you or I believe or don't believe is of absolutely no importance when disputing in the Scriptures. All that matters is what thus saith the Lord, and we are bound to believe that:

No, Jesus didn't serve the wine He made from water. He had the servants do it.

"And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it." (John 2)

Frankly bro, you just keep stepping off in the wrong direction...
 

robert derrick

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The Bible has plenty to say about the drinking of alcohol and its relationship to sin (see Judges 13:4, 7, 14, Isaiah 5:11, 22, 24:9, 28:7, 29:9, 56:12, and Proverbs 20:1, 31:4). Jesus made some very interesting comments about the criticism leveled at him and John the Baptist related to their behavior and habits.

The Bible forbids drunkenness . Although the Bible never says that alcohol itself is sinful , it does say many times that drunkenness is a sin . God says , "Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit."
A man of sound mind and faith, of full age in the first principles of Christ (Heb 5)
 

GEN2REV

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Me bucko is what I say to those I want to remain friendly with, even while we have real disagreement over important matters.

Agreed.
Frankly bro, you just keep stepping off in the wrong direction...

Well, shame on me.

God sees the heart.

My heart is for Truth and for the physical, and spiritual, well-being of my fellow Believers. Anybody who scans every single post of mine in this thread will see that fact. I've not twisted a single scripture and I've MADE UP NO LAWS. I've only presented the facts.
 

robert derrick

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Well......I did read most of this thread.
I came to the conclusion: Don't get drunk!
That's what the bible classifies as sin: being drunk - Plain and simple.
Nothing wrong with a glass of wine or beer in my opinion.
If it was so terribly bad Jesus would never have turned water into wine.
(Lots of legalism on this thread.)

Btw, I think Christians should not drink alcohol in front of a recently recovered alcoholic. That's all. :)

"But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak". ( 1 Cor 8)

The only problem is when babes refuse to grow up to full age in the first principles of Christ (Heb 5), and begin to judge the liberty of others by there persistently weak conscience (1 Cor 10).

This is especially heinous when they suppose themselves to be the strongest of the strong and begin preaching a willful abstinence religion upon others, and if others persist in their liberty of the law of Christ, then they are called compromisers and hypocrites unworthy of fellowship. (With carefully studied and spirit-led love and care, of course)

They are children who pipe unto the adults and demand they all dance to their childish tune. (Matthew 11)

"We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented."

"Hey, we've told you how much we care for you, and you danced not to our tune, so we have mourned for your lost condition, and you have not repented! What do we got to do to convert you to our way of thinking?!! We are better than you, that is obvious, so why don't you become as good and righteous and holy as us, and quit being such obstinate schlubs of the faith?!!"
 
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robert derrick

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Agreed.


Well, shame on me.

God sees the heart.

My heart is for Truth and for the physical, and spiritual, well-being of my fellow Believers. Anybody who scans every single post of mine in this thread will see that fact. I've not twisted a single scripture and I've MADE UP NO LAWS. I've only presented the facts.

I have no doubt whatsoever you believe so, and you can have no doubt whatsoever I reject it. I have likewise offered many proofs to the contrary of what you say. Therefore, I will continue in my liberty, and you will continue in your conscience.

Of course, one single Scripture that plainly addresses alcohol in itself as sin, without context of drunkenness and debauchery and riotous living and pagan ceremony of worship. In addition no useless discourses on culture, history, biology, and personal observation of the world, which have nothing to do with what is written, because that stuff is not.

That would be the only true start of a true dispute of a single Scripture. The only facts you have present in Scripture is that against the abusive lust of alcohol. Period. You make no difference between a drunkard and drinker, even as one would make no difference between a fornicator and marital sex.

A single and plain scripture of rebuke stands against your made up point of law against all drinking any time:

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days..." (col 2)

That ain't grape kool-aid nor grape juice God is talking about. We are not to be judged for eating meat, nor drinking wine, nor observances of days. All that is a shadow cast upon the liberty of God in Christ Jesus, where we may richly enjoy all things made on the earth, without lust.

"My heart is for Truth and for the physical, and spiritual, well-being of my fellow Believers."

I have been among them that care more for the souls for others than they do for themselves, and it is the worst part of self-righteous judgment of others with effort to dominate their faith and lives.

Do not ever presume to care more for others than they do for themselves. God alone is the only One who can truly say He cares more for others than Himself and than they themselves, and He proved it on the cross. All others are misguided at first, then pretenders at best, and finally despotic at heart.

"Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand." (2 Cor 1)

"And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer." (Rev 6)

Truly truly I say unto thee, what you care for most is forcing your abstinence religion on others that refuse to believe it, because the Bible doesn't plainly say it. You want to preach against drunkenness and revelry in pagan households according to the Scripture, go right ahead, but leave the sober minded adults in Christ alone, while they eat and drink even as the Lord, with faith in the Lord.

"And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men." (Col 3)

You heartily refuse to drink, good. I heartily drink, good. None is better and none is worse, until one forbid the other, or one compel the other. You don't judge me, and I will not set you at naught (Rom 14:10). When I drink, I do not try to impress others nor to show off my liberty, but I trow when you remain abstinent, you congratulate one another.

You want to pray about something, pray about that.
 

robert derrick

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One fact. The smallest molecule of alcohol destroys brain cells. And they don't grow back. Now ask yourselves. Is slow self destruction the will of God?
No, God is all about swift destruction. (2 Peter 1)

The number one cause of deaths for years running is heart disease. Why? Fat obese abuse of gluttonous eating over a lifetime.

Food is not a sin.

And biometric science, observations of peoples' self-destructive lives, and pseudo-cultural history are not proofs of law of Christ. Scripture only is. Children of personal rules and learnt intellect need to quit posing as teachers of the law of Christ (1 Tim 1)

It is not being against drinking that is the problem, but the pernicious pretense of trying to say God is against drinking, when he never said so. It is the integrity of scripture I stand for, not my own personal axe to grind that the self-righteous revel in.

You need to put away the wine and phony meat of your 'ministerial' pride and learn to live and let live within the liberty of the law of the Lord Jesus Christ.

"Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth." (Rom 14)

Drinking is not a sin. Drunkenness is a sin. You don't allow it for yourself with faith. Good. I do allow it for myself with faith. Good. And if you cannot fellowship with me thereby, then believe me before my Lord Jesus, I care not one whit. I at least will not have to answer for teaching false doctrine to others. I am not teaching 'to drink', I am defending the Scriptures against the false teaching of 'drink not'. (Col 2)
 

Brakelite

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Children of personal rules and learnt intellect need to quit posing as teachers of the law of Christ (1 Tim 1)

pernicious pretense of trying to say God is against drinking,

personal axe to grind that the self-righteous revel in.

your 'ministerial' pride

at least will not have to answer for teaching false doctrine to others.
Throw a stone in amongst a crowd and the one that yelps loudest is the one the stone hit. Very touchy huh. Methinks when one needs to defend His behavior by throwing insults, I counted 5, I would hazard a guess that you have no other recourse to count on.
 
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amadeus

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And harmless use of alcohol has not...

Harmless use of sex has gotten....killed in the past year.
Harmful eating of food has gotten....killed in the past year.
Harmful ministering of false doctrine has gotten....killed in the faith in the past year.

Anything is harmful when consumed with lust. And because the world abuses something, which they will, does not make that something unclean and impure of itself.
And then also...

"Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man." Matt 15:11
 
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robert derrick

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And then also...

"Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man." Matt 15:11
Woe, now that is good. Didn't even think of that one. Perfect.

And so Prov 20:1: Be not deceived by what you partake of through the mouth, for if it goes to the heart by lust, then you are foolishly defiled thereby...?

Alcohol is like gas put into the tank of the automotive body. It only becomes bad, when it sits there too long. It then becomes destructive to the the engine of the heart, because it has been mixed with unrestrained lust: Drunkenness.

"They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine." (Prov 23)

That which was intended by god to make the heart merry, have been corrupted by lust to make man sinful.

Wine does not lead to many sins. Drunkenness leads to many sins. They that make no difference between drinking wine and being drunk with wine, are the exact same who blame the gun for the murder...If they could, they would take away your wine and your gun, that we may all be much safer as they see it.

Rightly dividing the Word of truth begins with first rightly dividing between what is written, and what is not.

Drunkenness is written as sin. Drinking wine is not.
 
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robert derrick

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There is enjoying the pleasures of sin for a season. (Heb 11), and then there is richly enjoying all things given to us by God.

Jesus made the water wine and gave it to them that were with Him to richly enjoy. By Jesus were all things made: bread and wine, which God gives to all to richly enjoy.

The pleasures of sin are enjoyed only for a short space, but the enjoyment of all things richly goes on and on.

"All the days of the afflicted are evil: but he that is of a merry heart hath a continual feast." (Prov 15)

Sin is lust applied to any and all things made by man by the intelligence of the light of Christ given to all (John 1).

That lustful pleasure indeed has some enjoyment, but is very temporary, and in the case of drunkenness quickly descends into riotous transgression of God.

Jesus made the water wine on earth, even as He made wine by man on earth. The wine made by Christ to enjoy in Him makes the heart merry (Eccl 9), but drunkenness is a shame and a deceiver by lust to any person, whether in Christ or not.

And since a merry heart does good as a medicine (Prov 17), then wine is definitely good for medicinal purposes of the body and the mind and the soul in Christ Jesus.

"A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones." False 'holiness' teachings and burdens of commandments of men under the cloak of caring for souls, breaks the spirit of man and dries the bones of Christ within His body. Even as the very same type of lawgiving Pharisees would have His dry bones broken on the cross.

Do not doubt for one second, that they did not know what they were attempting to do by having his bones broken: to try and frustrate at least one prophesy of Jesus as the Christ. And they failed.
 

robert derrick

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"And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine." (John 2)

"Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? You know very well I don't drink any wine, and I certainly wouldn't provide any and participate in their sin!" (Bible of The No Wine, Chapter 2)

:D
 

amadeus

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Woe, now that is good. Didn't even think of that one. Perfect.

And so Prov 20:1: Be not deceived by what you partake of through the mouth, for if it goes to the heart by lust, then you are foolishly defiled thereby...?

Alcohol is like gas put into the tank of the automotive body. It only becomes bad, when it sits there too long. It then becomes destructive to the the engine of the heart, because it has been mixed with unrestrained lust: Drunkenness.

"They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine." (Prov 23)

That which was intended by god to make the heart merry, have been corrupted by lust to make man sinful.

Wine does not lead to many sins. Drunkenness leads to many sins. They that make no difference between drinking wine and being drunk with wine, are the exact same who blame the gun for the murder...If they could, they would take away your wine and your gun, that we may all be much safer as they see it.

Rightly dividing the Word of truth begins with first rightly dividing between what is written, and what is not.

Drunkenness is written as sin. Drinking wine is not.
Well I have never owned a gun and at my age it is unlikely that I will, but every year or so I partake in a good dark beer. One bottle is usually my limit.
 
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Shattered

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Jesus is sympathetic to the feelings of our weaknesses. God takes pity on us, remembering we were made from dirt.

I think God is much more merciful than quite a number of people are.

Much love!

Man can be the most harsh of judges and little wonder considering that we see things darkly and know only in part. We aren't privy to the secrets of the heart nor are we capable of grasping the full measure of a life. We experience great difficulty carrying on with our own!

So for every voice which rails "God hates sin!" well and good, but it's our place to focus our hearts and minds upon the words of the Lord delivered to us: mercy triumphs over justice, James 2:13. :)
 
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Shattered

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Well I have never owned a gun and at my age it is unlikely that I will, but every year or so I partake in a good dark beer. One bottle is usually my limit.

There's nothing wrong with that, brother. Years ago, when I was so inclined, I would consume an excellent beer now and then. I stopped on account of the headache a glass of beer or wine would leave in its wake. Ugh. Clearly my body says "no" to alcoholic beverages and so I listen to it. Not for me.

When I was a lad of 19 in the military, I decided to drink as much as I possibly could to see what that was all about. Hah! What a perfectly horrible experience... I tossed up my guts. I was hurling and the world was spinning while my comrades passed out. Nope, never again! :D
 
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