Is drinking sin?

[farouk]

What a great error you’re in man!

“And the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of an hin for the one lamb: in the holy place shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the LORD for a drink offering.” (Numbers 28:7)

You think this is referring to strong grape juice?!

@Michiah-Imla There is something about the culture of some independent churches which makes some ppl want to read their own culture and preferences into Scripture.

 

[farouk]

Do an experiment.

Drink a glass of grape juice. Then after a few minutes drink a glass of alcoholic wine and tell me which one makes you feel merry afterwards…


“A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.” (Ecclesiastes 10:19)

“Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.” (Ecclesiastes 9:7)

@Michiah-Imla Maybe limit the quantities involved.........

 

[GEN2REV]

What a great error you’re in man!

“And the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of an hin for the one lamb: in the holy place shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the LORD for a drink offering.” (Numbers 28:7)

You think this is referring to strong grape juice?!

1. That's not on that Strong's list

2. I didn't compile Strong's list

3. I never said that verse referred to grape juice

4. That verse says nothing about people ingesting strong wine

5. There are lots of verses that show substances being offered upon the altar that are prohibited by God like fat and blood for instance. Neither of which are ever to be ingested by Christians.

Let's stick to the subject.

Do you think it'd be ok to drink wine while sitting in the church pews at church on Sunday?

Do you think it'd be ok for the pastor to walk down the aisle toward the podium/lectern with a glass of wine/shot of whiskey/can of beer in hand to drink on while presenting his sermon?

Why not?

Can you explain why that would be a problem if wine is so innocent of a substance for Christians??

 

[Taken]

No, it is believed Yeshua drank.


NKJ Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say,`Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' But wisdom is justified by her children."

The context is contrasting Himself against John who did not drink (Nazarite) vow. They accused Him of being a glutton and drinking.

Shalom

Jesus did eat.(Recall ... the Last Supper?
Jesus did drink.(Recall ... the Last Supper?
Jesus was friendly with tax collectors, sinners and the like.
John’s Service was to introduce the Lamb of God.
Jesus’ Service is He is the Lamb of God sent for all men.

 

[farouk]

Jesus did eat.(Recall ... the Last Supper?
Jesus did drink.(Recall ... the Last Supper?
Jesus was friendly with tax collectors, sinners and the like.
John’s Service was to introduce the Lamb of God.
Jesus’ Service is He is the Lamb of God sent for all men.

@Taken He loved sinners, and was separate from them (Hebrews 7.26).

 

[Taken]

Um ... you're not just getting close to, but you're wading into the ridiculous now.

Alcohol is a drug.

So? Apparently PEOPLE LOVE DRUGS, since chemical compounds (including poisons) Pharmakia has been BOOMING for quite some time. Making the rich richer and the sick sicker.

Should Christians take any amount of drugs that impair/intoxicate; that is drugs that are not meant for medicine?

LOL... Seriously? Men have FREEWILL, to eat what and as much or little as they choose, to drink what and as much or little as they choose, to wear what and as much or little as they choose...
WHAT I CHOOSE, is according to my freewill...
No, I will not tell others what they can and can not do.

 

[Stan B]

Do you think it'd be ok to drink wine while sitting in the church pews at church on Sunday?

Do you think it'd be ok for the pastor to walk down the aisle toward the podium/lectern with a glass of wine/shot of whiskey/can of beer in hand to drink on while presenting his sermon?

Why not?

Can you explain why that would be a problem if wine is so innocent of a substance for Christians??

A lot of churches offer wine for communion, in keeping with Christ's comment while holding a glass of wine, to do it in remembrance of Him. He never said that about grape juice.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Do you think it'd be ok to drink wine while sitting in the church pews at church on Sunday?

No. It’s not the time or place. This would potential hinder the teaching and the peoples ability to learn. The principle for this is:

“Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations: And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean; And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.” (Leviticus 10:9-11)

Do you think it'd be ok for the pastor to walk down the aisle toward the podium/lectern with a glass of wine/shot of whiskey/can of beer in hand

No for the reasons already mentioned.

Why not?

We must also be sensitive to the weaker brethren:

“It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.” (Romans 14:21)

I would not drink wine around you out of respect to your personal preference; not because God forbids it.

But @Stan B makes a good observation about the use of wine in some churches.

 

[Stan B]

No. It’s not the time or place. This would potential hinder the teaching and the peoples ability to learn. The principle for this is:

“Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations: And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean; And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.” (Leviticus 10:9-11)

Same rule applies today: “Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into your automobile, lest ye die".

 

[GEN2REV]

So? Apparently PEOPLE LOVE DRUGS, since chemical compounds (including poisons) Pharmakia has been BOOMING for quite some time. Making the rich richer and the sick sicker. LOL... Seriously? Men have FREEWILL, to eat what and as much or little as they choose, to drink what and as much or little as they choose, to wear what and as much or little as they choose...
WHAT I CHOOSE, is according to my freewill... No, I will not tell others what they can and can not do.

Nobody asked you to.

This discussion is about the Bible's (which is God's) stance on alcohol.

When I say 'should Christians' do this or that, it is in reference to what Scripture has to say about it. In other words, in light of all that is contained on the subject from Genesis2Revelation.

 

[GEN2REV]

A lot of churches offer wine for communion, in keeping with Christ's comment while holding a glass of wine, to do it in remembrance of Him. He never said that about grape juice.

Only the liturgical charade churches.

Not even those allow wine to be drunk in the pews or at the podium.

Why not?

What's the objection?

 

[GEN2REV]

No. It’s not the time or place. This would potential hinder the teaching and the peoples ability to learn.

Are you saying they wouldn't be able to think straight if they were drinking alcohol in church?

The principle for this is:
“Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations: And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean; And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.” (Leviticus 10:9-11)

Sure sounds to me like alcohol is unholy and unclean and God doesn't want it brought into the Tabernacle, in hand or gut.

We must also be sensitive to the weaker brethren:

What danger is alcohol to weaker Christians?

How strong must a Christian be to drink alcohol?

“It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.” (Romans 14:21)

So alcohol can actually weaken a Christian and cause them to sin?

I would not drink wine around you out of respect to your personal preference; not because God forbids it.

I would prefer you not drink it out of respect for God's Temple and the Holy Spirit. Are you not concerned with those things?

 

[farouk]

Pharmakia has been BOOMING for quite some time. Making the rich richer and the sick sicker.

@Taken The big pharmaceuticals have a vested interest in ppl using the more expensive pain killing meds rather than adding a bit of MJ to their vapes.

 

[GEN2REV]

Same rule applies today: “Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into your automobile, lest ye die".

Interesting comparison of dynamics there.

In the one case, driving while having drank wine will cause your physical body to be impaired and not function to operate the vehicle properly ... causing you to die.

In the other, entering the most holy place of God while having drank wine will cause your spirit to be unclean and unholy in the presence of God and HE WILL KILL YOU ... causing you to die.

One scenario will kill your body. The other will kill your soul.

Alcohol being the catalyst ... for both.

 

[GEN2REV]

Here's a question for all.

If you die while intoxicated, do you forfeit heaven?

You are literally dying in your sin. Are you not?

 

[Stan B]

@Michiah-Imla There is something about the culture of some independent churches which makes some ppl want to read their own culture and preferences into Scripture.

It’s a feature of organized religion that denies that we have been freed from the Law, and start to manufacture their own laws:

Jesus replied, “And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@GEN2REV

I already made my points out of scripture.

You are free to abstain from alcohol.

But you are out of biblical jurisdiction to demand this on others. And your questions are petty and seem motivated only to find some fault rather than honest curiosity.

 

[GEN2REV]

@GEN2REV

I already made my points out of scripture.

You are free to abstain from alcohol.

But you are out of biblical jurisdiction to demand this on others. And your questions are petty and seem motivated only to find some fault rather than honest curiosity.

That's not true at all.

You'd be hard pressed to make a serious case for that out of all my posts in this thread.

I care about Christians' physical, AND spiritual, well-being.

I care about God and His Temple upon the earth.

And I care deeply about the Truth.

That's all.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

They gave Jesus a cup but it was the wrong cup!

His Father gave him a cup to drink indeed, but it was not that vinegar... nor was gall the proper food to eat:

His cup was the agonized suffering and death on that cross. No relief until he was dead... then would come the Resurrection!

I’ve been thinking more about the verse in
Matthew 27:34 where ‘They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.’

again, not that it matters; I’m only sharing thoughts for your input. I can’t stop thinking about the vinegar mingled with gall, and how when he tasted the vinegar mingled with gall, He would not drink.

One the reason I keep coming back is regarding this topic about being sober. How can we be sober when we aren’t even sure what being “sober” is? For example the passage on being not of the darkness and of the night, but to be of the day and of the light. all this pointing to being “sober” and to “watch”. How can we say we are “watching” and of those “watching”… if “being sober” is debatable?

Someone mentioned the mind in regards to what alcohol or drunkenness does to the mind. (unless I’ve misunderstood) being “sober” is connected to “the power of Love, and of a Sound Mind”? What is a Sound Mind if not a “Sober” and “Awake” mind? Consider “Let this mind be in you that was in Christ”

@amadeus this isn’t directed at you but I’m only walking through some passages…why? Because I fear a lot! Of “a sound mind” is needful which brought it back to His tasting of the vinegar mixed with Gall and He would not drink.

You mentioned God gives Good things. I agree which makes me wonder what was in the cup He tasted? For me what you said is inspiring and lines up with God doesn’t give the spirit of fear again to bondage but the Spirit of of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
2 Timothy 1:7-8 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. [8] Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

Consider that perhaps what He tasted (for every man) was the spirit of fear unto bondage because what else leads to death, which He tasted, but would not drink?
Acts 13:34-37


the spirit of fear again unto bondage…are we not warned it leads to death in “fear not what man can do to the body”. Some may argue He was afraid, yes sweating blood, but after tasting death (the spirit of fear unto bondage?) He did not drink…Did He overcome the spirit of fear unto bondage by submission and trust and Faith instead in the Father that gives not the spirit of fear unto bondage but who gives the Spirit of power, and of Love, and of a sound mind. Consider that He tasted of the spirit of the world, but would not drink? Instead trusting God in all things which overcomes “the world” and the spirit of it?

 

[Robert Gwin]

You're acting as if you're being fair and balanced on the matter, but you're not.

The verses you posted are clearly speaking of alcohol. I have posted multiple verses that can only be speaking of grape juice. You are ignoring those.

Here's that list of more verses that only speak of grape juice from Strong's:

a. common drink, for refreshment Genesis 14:18 (E?) Genesis 27:25 (J), Judges 19:19; 2 Samuel 16:2; Amos 5:11; Amos 9:14; Hosea 14:8; Job 1:13,18; Daniel 1:5 +, tonic Proverbs 31:6; article of commerce Ezekiel 27:18; Nehemiah 13:15; among supplies in strongholds 2 Chronicles 11:11; as making merry 2 Samuel 13:28; Zechariah 9:15; Zechariah 10:7; Esther 1:10; Ecclesiastes 9:7; Ecclesiastes 10:19; Psalm 104:15.

Strong's Hebrew: 3196. יָ֫יִן (yayin) -- wine

The posters question is drinking sin, of which I am keeping in context Gen. There may be all kinds of drinks mentioned in scripture including grape juice, I really do not know. However as you have seen from some passages, wine is a beverage that at the very least at times contains alcohol, enough to make individuals intoxicated. I agree with you that grape juice in itself is just as healthy, if not moreso than drinking wine. Many Christians drink alcoholic beverages.