Is drinking sin?

[GEN2REV]

Spare me the wisdom of this world regarding wine and grape juice. Been there, done that.

Obviously not if you didn't know grape juice had all those health benefits.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Sorry!, it came to mind so I put forward this question, in this Bible study forum just wanted to know what Bibles says

no need to apologize…I wasn’t meaning in a condemning way. It is a great topic. I was just asking.

 

[GEN2REV]

Do an experiment.

Drink a glass of grape juice. Then after a few minutes drink a glass of alcoholic wine and tell me which one makes you feel merry afterwards…


“A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.” (Ecclesiastes 10:19)

“Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.” (Ecclesiastes 9:7)

Here you go.

Straight from Strong's Concordance:

Here are a number of verses referring to grape juice as a refreshment - complete with your Ecclesiastes 9:7 verse there at the bottom:

a. common drink, for refreshment Genesis 14:18 (E?) Genesis 27:25 (J), Judges 19:19; 2 Samuel 16:2; Amos 5:11; Amos 9:14; Hosea 14:8; Job 1:13,18; Daniel 1:5 +, tonic Proverbs 31:6; article of commerce Ezekiel 27:18; Nehemiah 13:15; among supplies in strongholds 2 Chronicles 11:11; as making merry 2 Samuel 13:28; Zechariah 9:15; Zechariah 10:7; Esther 1:10; Ecclesiastes 9:7; Ecclesiastes 10:19; Psalm 104:15.

And here are some that refer to alcohol:

c. intoxicating 1 Samuel 1:14; 1 Samuel 25:37; Genesis 9:21,24; Genesis 19:32,33,34,35 (all J), Isaiah 5:11,22; Proverbs 21:17; Proverbs 23:30,31 +; "" תִּירוֺשׁ Hosea 4:11; "" שֵׁכָר 1 Samuel 1:15; Micah 2:11; Isaiah 24:9; Isaiah 28:7 (twice in verse); Isaiah 56:12 12t.; forbidden to Nazirites Numbers 6:3 (twice in verse) (חֹמֶץ יַיִן וְחֹמֶץ שֵׁכָר), Numbers 6:4; Numbers 6:20, compare Amos 2:12; to Rechabites Jeremiah 35:2,5f.; to mother of Samson Judges 13:4,7,14; to priests entering sanctuary Leviticus 10:9 (P), Ezekiel 44:21; unfitting for kings Proverbs 31:4.

Strong's Hebrew: 3196. יָ֫יִן (yayin) -- wine

Study up.

God bless.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Straight from Strong's Concordance:

Strong’s concordance? [LOL!!]

That’s where you get your “Bible Study” doctrine from???

Put that aside and try reading the BIBLE without “aides” and maybe you will learn what the Bible itself actually teaches.

 

[My Dreams]

no need to apologize…I wasn’t meaning in a condemning way. It is a great topic. I was just asking.

Oh okay, thanks here we consider drinking even a drop of wine as sin so I realized that Jesus turned water into wine and put forward this question

 

[Robert Gwin]

That verse is referring specifically to grape juice. Read about the benefits of grape juice for the heart. It is not the alcohol that contains/provides these benefits though fermented juice still contains some of these elements, the pure juice contains them in much more abundance.You'd be very wrong, friend.

First, you don't have to be a drunk, to be drunken.

Secondly, there are many functioning addicts who hold down very good jobs; especially now that we have so many stimulants like ritalin/adderall/stratera to help them when hungover and revive them when they run down. I have a family member who graduated college with a double major while being a raging alcoholic, and almost 2 decades later holds down a very well-paying job, but knows they have a major problem with alcohol (wine to be exact) and can't escape it after multiple hospital stays and rehabs.Those who partake dishonor God's Temple. I have been down that road many times, even as a Christian, and it always ends in trouble and dishonor.

To answer the question I asked you, one must drink alcohol in order to become drunk.

See post #62.

Therefore, would God want His Children to drink alcohol? What would be the point of taking an action ... just a little bit ... that inevitably leads to drunkenness (sin)?

Is viewing porn a sin? Would God want His Children to view porn ... just a little bit ... even if they swear they won't take any sinful actions?

Again, I ask, ... what would be the point?

It is all dabbling with the devil.

Although I don't disagree with you on the benefits of grape juice Gen, that was not what was meant by the verse. The Bible does not caution against becoming dependent upon grape juice in all honesty: (Proverbs 23:30-35) . . .Those lingering long over wine; Those searching out mixed wine. 31 Do not look at the wine’s red color As it sparkles in the cup and goes down smoothly, 32 For in the end it bites like a serpent, And it secretes poison like a viper. 33 Your eyes will see strange things, And your heart will speak perverse things. 34 And you will be like one lying down in the middle of the sea, Like one lying at the top of a ship’s mast. 35 You will say: “They have struck me, but I did not feel it. They beat me, but I did not know it. When will I wake up? I need another drink.”

We may have to agree to disagree on this topic sir.

 

[Taken]

So you're claiming that the verse is telling Christians to ingest anything they like.

Show some HONESTY, and If you are unsure what that means...
It means Stop speaking FOR ME.
My words spoke FOR me.
You speaking FOR me is DISHONEST.

By this logic, it is ok then for Christians to take drugs as long as they don't take "too much."

“This logic”....IS YOUR words, YOUR logic, YOU own that, not me!

"Alcohol is a drug. I

t is classified as a Central Nervous System (CNS) depressant, which means that drinking alcohol slows down brain functioning, neural activity, and further reduces the functioning of various vital functions in the body. This is due to the increased production of the inhibitory neurotransmitter, gamma-aminobutyric acid, or GABA."
Is Alcohol A Drug?

So?
Moderation is taught in other Scriptures...Stop changing what I say and the topic.

The topic was WHAT, not HOW MUCH!
And IFY...Water is NOT classified as a DRUG, but a person CAN OVERDOSE, and DIE from drinking too MUCH water!

 

[GEN2REV]

Strong’s concordance? [LOL!!]

That’s where you get your “Bible Study” doctrine from???

Put that aside and try reading the BIBLE without “aides” and maybe you will learn what the Bible itself actually teaches.

Uhhh ... Strong's shows the Hebrew/Greek original language word meanings. Much more accurate than modern English translations.

If that's not at all important to you, that's a big reason you've gone astray from the Truth of Scripture on the matter.

If you want to drink alcohol, go ahead, but don't for one second believe, or proclaim, that the Bible is ok with, or encourages, it in the least.

You've been presented with the Truth. What you do with it is on you.

 

[GEN2REV]

here we consider drinking even a drop of wine as sin

Here is a pretty good compilation of verses and perspectives on the matter.

http://www.johnhamelministries.org/wine_lie_Jesus.htm#Jesus Miracles

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Strong's shows the Hebrew/Greek original language word meanings

Context in how the words are used shows the actual meanings in the usage.

You've been presented with the Truth. What you do with it is on you.

You have presented a biased perversion of scripture using study helps incorrectly to justify your preconceived notion.

Beware. Because you’re adding to scripture with your bias and taking away from scripture in like manner.

“Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.” (Deuteronomy 4:2)

 

[GEN2REV]

Although I don't disagree with you on the benefits of grape juice Gen, that was not what was meant by the verse. The Bible does not caution against becoming dependent upon grape juice in all honesty: (Proverbs 23:30-35) . . .Those lingering long over wine; Those searching out mixed wine. 31 Do not look at the wine’s red color As it sparkles in the cup and goes down smoothly, 32 For in the end it bites like a serpent, And it secretes poison like a viper. 33 Your eyes will see strange things, And your heart will speak perverse things. 34 And you will be like one lying down in the middle of the sea, Like one lying at the top of a ship’s mast. 35 You will say: “They have struck me, but I did not feel it. They beat me, but I did not know it. When will I wake up? I need another drink.”

We may have to agree to disagree on this topic sir.

You're acting as if you're being fair and balanced on the matter, but you're not.

The verses you posted are clearly speaking of alcohol. I have posted multiple verses that can only be speaking of grape juice. You are ignoring those.

Here's that list of more verses that only speak of grape juice from Strong's:

a. common drink, for refreshment Genesis 14:18 (E?) Genesis 27:25 (J), Judges 19:19; 2 Samuel 16:2; Amos 5:11; Amos 9:14; Hosea 14:8; Job 1:13,18; Daniel 1:5 +, tonic Proverbs 31:6; article of commerce Ezekiel 27:18; Nehemiah 13:15; among supplies in strongholds 2 Chronicles 11:11; as making merry 2 Samuel 13:28; Zechariah 9:15; Zechariah 10:7; Esther 1:10; Ecclesiastes 9:7; Ecclesiastes 10:19; Psalm 104:15.

Strong's Hebrew: 3196. יָ֫יִן (yayin) -- wine

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Here is a pretty good compilation of verses and perspectives on the matter.

http://www.johnhamelministries.org/wine_lie_Jesus.htm#Jesus Miracles

Here’s a good source to learn absolute truth on the matter:

KING JAMES BIBLE ONLINE

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Here's that list of more verses that only speak of grape juice from Strong's:

I see proverbs 31:6 is on that list:

“Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.” (Proverbs 31:6-7)

So you really believe that “grape juice” will ease a heavy heart and cause one to forget his miseries???

Why don’t you get some white out and change your Bible to what YOU want it to say.

So you believe that an ALL KNOWING God did not know how to create a separate word for grape juice in his holy word!

But I have news for you, there is a word for “grape juice” in the Bible and it’s GRAPE JUICE!!!

“he shall separate himself from wine and strong drink. He shall drink no vinegar made from wine or strong drink and shall not drink any juice of grapes or eat grapes, fresh or dried.” (Numbers 6:3)

 

[GEN2REV]

Show some HONESTY, and If you are unsure what that means...
It means Stop speaking FOR ME.
My words spoke FOR me.
You speaking FOR me is DISHONEST.



“This logic”....IS YOUR words, YOUR logic, YOU own that, not me!



So?
Moderation is taught in other Scriptures...Stop changing what I say and the topic.

The topic was WHAT, not HOW MUCH!
And IFY...Water is NOT classified as a DRUG, but a person CAN OVERDOSE, and DIE from drinking too MUCH water!

Um ... you're not just getting close to, but you're wading into the ridiculous now.

Alcohol is a drug.

It's a perfectly pertinent question to the evolving debate.

Should Christians take any amount of drugs that impair/intoxicate; that is drugs that are not meant for medicine?

 

[Stan B]

substance.
1

Can't know how much of the thread you've read, but I've well established that the word 'wine' in Scripture refers to alcohol AND grape juice interchangeably.

With God as my Witness, I can guarantee you that Paul did not tell a young pastor to drink alcohol for an upset stomach.

of one thing I am certain, that the Bible was translated by teams of the very top scholars, and when the original was “wine” that is exactly the way they translated it. And when the original referred to grape juice, that’s the way it was translated it.

Then, along comes @GEN2REV who declares that these scholars were all wrong, but infallible @GEN2REV knows how they should have translated it.

So we should throw all of our Bibles into the trash and read his translation. Where can I get the infallible gen2rev translation?

 

[GEN2REV]

I see proverbs 31:6 is on that list:

So you really believe that “grape juice” will ease a heavy heart and cause one to forget his miseries??

Did you miss that it says very clearly just before that verse to be used as a "tonic"?

What about the other NINETEEN verses listed there. Did you check those and they all referred to grape juice?

How bout these from that list:

as making merry 2 Samuel 13:28; Zechariah 9:15; Zechariah 10:7; Esther 1:10; Ecclesiastes 9:7; Ecclesiastes 10:19; Psalm 104:15.

Sounds like you're really having to kick hard against the goads - stubbornly refusing to accept what the Bible teaches about the consumption of alcohol.

So you believe that an ALL KNOWING God did not know how to create a separate word for grape juice in his holy word!

You can't be that ignorant of the origins of the Bible.

But, then again, you are making quite juvenile judgments about Christians drinking alcohol so ... maybe you are.

Sounds like you've got many years of learning to do.

God bless you on your journey of discovering the Truth.

 

[GEN2REV]

substance.
1
of one thing I am certain, that the Bible was translated by teams of the very top scholars, and when the original was “wine” that is exactly the way they translated it. And when the original referred to grape juice, that’s the way it was translated it.

Then, along comes @GEN2REV who declares that these scholars were all wrong, but infallible @GEN2REV knows how they should have translated it.

So we should throw all of our Bibles into the trash and read his translation. Where can I get the infallible gen2rev translation?

The original word for wine, the word that the holy scribes translated from, meant fermented AND UNFERMENTED grape juice. The juice of the grape, whether fermented or not.

So the scribes used one word for their translation. Early Christians, those who created and studied the KJV, were well aware of this.

It is only modern critics that don't (or refuse to) understand the matter.

It's very easy to figure out what God intended about alcohol when one does just a little honest research on alcohol itself. It is a poison - plain and simple. It's not even as gray an area as the ingestion of sugar. The Bible is silent on eating sugary things, but those with discernment will know that ingesting the modern version of concentrated sugar is not good for you - certainly not to excess. Interesting to note: sugar is turned into alcohol in the body when ingested. Look at the damage sugar does in excess and over time.

Are we to knowingly destroy our bodies for the sheer purpose of our pleasure and enjoyment?

I'm pretty sure there are numerous verses against sensuality in Scripture. Drinking alcohol, even in small amounts, is done for sensual purposes. To better enjoy social experiences? That is a sensual purpose.

Like I said, those who are honest will see clearly the problem with alcohol for a Christian. Trying to prove it to those with a definite bias is almost a waste of time if it weren't for the few who might just learn something.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You can't be that ignorant of the origins of the Bible.

An ALL KNOWING God is not the origin?

Oh, I see what I am dealing with now.

Spiritual ignorance.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

It's very easy to figure out what God intended about alcohol when one does just a little honest research on alcohol itself. It is a poison - plain and simple.

What a great error you’re in man!

“And the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of an hin for the one lamb: in the holy place shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the LORD for a drink offering.” (Numbers 28:7)

You think this is referring to strong grape juice?!

 

[farouk]

Water is NOT classified as a DRUG, but a person CAN OVERDOSE, and DIE from drinking too MUCH water!

@Taken Knives are found in kitchens, and in theory knives can hurt ppl, but banning knives in kitchens would make no sense.

The question is, Not using them in a way that causes harm.