Is Faith in Jesus Faith to Keep the Law?

[GerhardEbersoehn]

we see His glory in us, transforming us, His glory becomes our glory (lit. out of glory into glory, think Christmas tag, "From: Glory; To: Glory"), a work of His Spirit.

Idolatry - Roman Catholic idolatry!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Do you need a law to stop you beating up your kids when they make a mistake.
Do you need a law to forgive those who hurt you.
do you need a law to not speed.
do you need a law to stop your raping your neighbors wife
do you need a law so you wont steal
do you need a law that grants you faith In Jesus

'Do you need' is a fake question no one needs. Fact of the matter is God gave the Law because man sinned and needed a Law to correct him.

 

[CoreIssue]

Do you need a law to stop you beating up your kids when they make a mistake.
Do you need a law to forgive those who hurt you.
do you need a law to not speed.
do you need a law to stop your raping your neighbors wife
do you need a law so you wont steal
do you need a law that grants you faith In Jesus

Does grace beat up those who fall and make mistakes, does faith fail when a man sins, is not a gift only a gift when it is not earned, if God was to condemn a man for being a man would not that make Him a hypocrite, and Jesus a liar.

" I offer you this gift but if you sin I am going to take it away from you".

Who do you think God is, ??

The law of conscience covers all those things. The law was given to Adam and Eve, meaning knowledge of good and evil.

 

[Taken]

Are you bleeding the trees to make rubber erases.

Nah, getting some ready for a log structure. No bleeding, but have my eye on a couple to girdle.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[marks]

Idolatry - Roman Catholic idolatry!

Gee, I've never been accused of that before!

2 Corinthians 3:17-18
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

One thing to mention on this part, from glory to glory:

"apo doxes eis doxan", apo is "away from", eis is "into". Away from glory, into glory. We are being transformed into the same image, what image? We are beholding the glory of the Lord. We are being transformed into His image, away from glory, into glory.

Not like a skipping stone, from glory, to glory, to glory, to glory . . .

Like a Christmas present. "From: Glory To: Glory"

For those He justified, He also glorified.
These light afflictions, which are but for a moment, are working for us a far greater eternal weight of glory.

Transformed into His image, to appear with Him . . . in glory.

Much love!
mark

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

apo is "away from", eis is "into". Away from glory, into glory.

This is not LXX but NT Koineh. This is not 'eis' with Dative; this is 'eis' with Accusative, "unto"; not 'into'. The saved are now saved and will enter into glory in the Resurrection at the coming again of Jesus Christ.

 

[mjrhealth]

The law of conscience covers all those things. The law was given to Adam and Eve, meaning knowledge of good and evil.

Actually it was not, they did not come into that knowledge untill after they fell,

Gen_2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

it was not till Moses that the law was given.

Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

and it was

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

to the Jews not the gentiles

and all it ever did

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

and therefore all those who try keep the law are dying in there sin.

because

Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

and they deny His grace.

 

[mjrhealth]

As for trh OP

2Ti_3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
1Pe_1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

nothing to do with any law keeping.

 

[mjrhealth]

'Do you need' is a fake question no one needs. Fact of the matter is God gave the Law because man sinned and needed a Law to correct him.

No it did not, the law was given to show the JEws what sin was, than He sent Christ so we wouldnt have to suffer the penalty for Sin, because He paid the price Himself, yet all the lawyers think somehow they are better than Jesus.

Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

have fun trying to prove your worthiness

 

[mjrhealth]

"'who need religion when one has Christ?'", is begging the question, a statement that religion is one's Christ and one’s Christ, his religion.

Is that what you really think of Jesus, a religion, Salvation is by faith, not mens religions

 

[aspen]

When we are born again, is it so that we will now be able to keep the Mosaic Covenant? The 10 Commandments?

This is how I answer.

Romans 7:1-4
Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

According to James, the Law is a single unit. If you break one law, you are a law breaker. Paul speaks of the law that includes coveting (vs. 7) which is included in the 10 commandments. Either way, this includes the 10 commandments.

The married woman is bound by the law of marriage to her husband, but if he be dead, she is loosed from that law. She no longer has to keep it. He's dead. She's free. Even if she were to try to return to the law of marriage, it would just be a horror story because he's dead. There won't be any resemblence of any kind to the previously existing marraige because he is dead. A corpse. You don't get up in the morning and have coffee with a corpse.

That marriage no longer exists. He is dead. She is loosed.

So in the same way, we are dead to the law, including the 10 commandments. Being joined to Christ has made us free from the law previously given. Even if we were to try to have some relationship with the law now, it is just as unseemly as trying to be married to a corpse. It won't be what was. Marriage was never meant to survive the death of the spouse.

And in fact, the comparison gets worse. Being joined to Jesus and seeking a return to the law would be like being married, but insisting on propping up the corpse of husband #1 with his cup of coffee also.

At least, if we use the example God gave, that's what it looks like.

Is this how Paul lived? Absolutely.

1 Corinthians 9:19-21 “For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

Paul felt perfectly free to live as those without law. This did not make him “lawless”, an accusation that's been made against me as well. Under the Law of Christ.

Go ahead. Say it. “The 'Law of Christ' is just another name for the 10 commandments.”

But my question for you is this. How can that be, considering God's example of marriage?

Much love!
Mark

Keeping the law is no longer following a few external standards.....it is recognizing the law of Moses for what it is: a few external examples of loving God and neighbor. Jesus came to tell us that it is no longer ok to just play human (so to speak), instead, we are now supposed to be living fully human lives, by following internalized, applied law, which is to love others perfectly, as we were created to do.

 

[CoreIssue]

Actually it was not, they did not come into that knowledge untill after they fell,

Gen_2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

it was not till Moses that the law was given.

Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

and it was

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

to the Jews not the gentiles

and all it ever did

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

and therefore all those who try keep the law are dying in there sin.

because

Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

and they deny His grace.

I never said when for Adam and Eve.

Romans 5
Romans 2:14-15
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

 

[marks]

This is not LXX but NT Koineh. This is not 'eis' with Dative; this is 'eis' with Accusative, "unto"; not 'into'. The saved are now saved and will enter into glory in the Resurrection at the coming again of Jesus Christ.

Hi Gerhard,

Yes, I know it's not the LXX, which would be the OT only.

As an accusative noun, "glory", "to glory", by my understanding, this should be rendered as the direct object to the verb transformed. The construction, in the simplest sense to show the grammar, again, by my understanding, would be something like,

We are being transformed into glory.
Noun Verb Direct Object

There is more to it of course.

We are being transformed into His image, into glory (all accusative case).

"from glory", on the other hand, is genetive case. It shows source.

Showing the literal word order from the Textus Receptus:

We yet all having uncovered face the glory of the Lord mirroring, the same image are being transformed from glory, into glory, even as from Lord Spirit.

Direct Object (accusative prep & verb) Genetive Prep & Noun Verb

Again, by my understanding . . .

Much love!
Mark

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Actually it was not, they did not come into that knowledge untill after they fell,

Gen_2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

it was not till Moses that the law was given.

Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

and it was

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

to the Jews not the gentiles

and all it ever did

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

and therefore all those who try keep the law are dying in there sin.

because

Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

and they deny His grace.

Adam and Eve came "'into that knowledge'" that they would die when God gave them Law not to eat, before they fell. Genesis 2:17, "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

It was not till Moses that the WRITTEN Law was given. John 1:17 "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" before Moses there in Eden as soon as Adam and Eve disobeyed the Word of God the Son.
The Law which was given by Moses already existed so that Moses could "give" it.

It was the Written Law which therefore "was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith" Galatians 3:24, by Him the Law of God Incarnate.

"Us" in Galatians 3:24, "Our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ", were the Gentiles of Galatia and Paul and Jews all together in "The Body of Christ's Own".

Romans 7:9, "For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died [not the Law], 10 and the commandment which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death [to me], because 11 SIN deceived me and taking occasion by / on strength of the Commandment, slew / killed me."

And therefore, "'all those who try keep the law are dying in there sin'" is MJR Sick spinning, because God said all those who do NOT keep His Law .. and those are every mortal sinner .. shall die for their SIN which is nothing than DISOBEDIENCE and TRANSGRESSION of God's All Truth in Jesus Christ Law-principle written in His Word the Scriptures. Romans 8:3, "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh." To deny the Law of God "CONDEMNS SIN" means "'they deny His grace'" for the forgiveness of the sin. Sin cost God no less than it cost us - his LIFE! He TOLD us from the beginning.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Actually it was not, they did not come into that knowledge untill after they fell,

Gen_2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

it was not till Moses that the law was given.

Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

and it was

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

to the Jews not the gentiles

and all it ever did

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

and therefore all those who try keep the law are dying in there sin.

because

Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

and they deny His grace.

Adam and Eve came "'into that knowledge'" that they would die when God gave them Law not to eat, before they fell. Genesis 2:17, "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

It was not till Moses that the WRITTEN Law was given. John 1:17 "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" before Moses there in Eden as soon as Adam and Eve disobeyed the Word of God the Son.

It was the Written Law which therefore "was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith" Galatians 3:24, by Him the Law of God Incarnate.

"Us" in Galatians 3:24, "Our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ", were the Gentiles of Galatia and Paul and Jews all together in "The Body of Christ's Own".

Romans 7:9, "For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died [not the Law], 10 and the commandment which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death [to me], because 11 SIN deceived me and taking occasion by / on strength of the Commandment, slew / killed me."

And therefore, "'all those who try keep the law are dying in there sin'" is MJR Sick spinning, because God said all those who do NOT keep His Law .. and those are every mortal sinner .. shall die for their SIN which is nothing than DISOBEDIENCE and TRANSGRESSION of God's All Truth in Jesus Christ Law-principle written in His Word the Scriptures. Romans 8:3, "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh." To deny the Law of God "CONDEMNS SIN" means "'they deny His grace'" for the forgiveness of the sin. Sin cost God no less than it cost us - his LIFE! He TOLD us from the beginning.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Christiaan Gerhardus Ebersöhn

ALL flesh shall die for his sin which “is transgression of and disobedience to God's All-Truth-in-Jesus-Christ-Law-Principle written in His Word the Scriptures. Romans 8:3, "For what the Law could not do, God Himself, sending his own Son in the likeness of man”, did do— “He, for its sin, condemned sin in the flesh."

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Keeping the law is no longer following a few external standards.....it is recognizing the law of Moses for what it is: a few external examples of loving God and neighbor. Jesus came to tell us that it is no longer ok to just play human (so to speak), instead, we are now supposed to be living fully human lives, by following internalized, applied law, which is to love others perfectly, as we were created to do.

Exactly, for which very reason the Law was given, "THAT SIN MAY ABOUND". Which is to say that our sin shall be more sin and more sinful, but our modern super Christians imagine themselves they do not need--God wasted his breath giving them, us, his Written Law. It is become a redundant piece of scrap paper. TELL GOD THAT!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Yes, I know it's not the LXX, which would be the OT only.

As an accusative noun, "glory", "to glory", by my understanding, this should be rendered as the direct object to the verb transformed. The construction, in the simplest sense to show the grammar, again, by my understanding, would be something like,

We are being transformed into glory.
Noun Verb Direct Object

There is more to it of course.

We are being transformed into His image, into glory (all accusative case).

"from glory", on the other hand, is genetive case. It shows source.

Showing the literal word order from the Textus Receptus:

We yet all having uncovered face the glory of the Lord mirroring, the same image are being transformed from glory, into glory, even as from Lord Spirit.

Direct Object (accusative prep & verb) Genetive Prep & Noun Verb

Again, by my understanding . . .

Exactly by your understanding, yes.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

No it did not, the law was given to show the JEws what sin was, than He sent Christ so we wouldnt have to suffer the penalty for Sin, because He paid the price Himself, yet all the lawyers think somehow they are better than Jesus.

Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

have fun trying to prove your worthiness

MJR Sick superior health proven.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Keeping the law is no longer following a few external standards.

Keeping the Law of God never has been "'following a few external standards'". It required "GOD IN CHRIST" to achieve "once and for all".