Is freewill real or just something we invented it ?

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Behold

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A choice of limited option that doesn't express your will is not a free choice, never was, never will be.

The Spirit is born again of God.......
That is your verse.
THe 'Right to become, children of God", is based on.....>"Faith, ..... comes by hearing.".... Not by being FORCD to Believe, as Calvin's Heresy has taught you.

God then gives the BELIEVER the "power to become, a Son of God".....John 1:12... because you RECEIVED HIM......(Christ) not because you were FORCED by Calvin's Crazy predestined elect theology.

To BECOME the child of God, is God accepting your faith, to then GIVE YOU,, "the Gift Of Salvation".


Reader....

I'll ask you to take 5 minis away from Calvin and just think.

1.) Did God tell us to Keep the Commandments?
So, if we are pre-determined to keep them, why would He need to tell us to do it?

2.) Did God tell US....>"to Present your body a living sacrifice"?
So, if we were pre-destined to do it???, why would God tell us to do it, as there would be no need to tell us..

3.) Did God tell us to "be holy as He is holy"?
So, if God predetermined that we would, according to Calvin's insane theology, then Why would God need to tell us to do it?

4.) If God predestined us to do what He wants, there would be no need for a Bible, as it would be Automatic......all of it.

But its NOT......so, the reason God gives us the ORDERS< is because we have the right of Free Will to NOT DO IT., Exactly as Christ, who became ONE OF US< had the freewill option to not go to the Cross.
He decided to do His FATHER's WILL...... =FREE WILL option.

And You have the same, every single day.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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We start from the beggining when Adam was giving the power to name the animals G-d gave him freewill to choose Genesis 2:20.
20 The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him.

Here G-d gives Adam gives him ability to think for himself and he decide the animals name.

There is difference from the freewill Hebrew people back in the days of Noah and Moses when the law was directed to G-d's people they had freewill to decide. Their decision is under the law because they did not know other religions or ways they were narrowminded but still the decision from good and evil existed. Did the errors of their fathers before them I mean the fall of Adam stopped them making decisions in their life. Israel did what they want based still of need of surviving. Killing, eating, proceating needs of humanity but no matter what the error of Adam did not take freewill from them.

Romans 7:19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.”

Ezekiel 18:20 “The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.”

Psalm 110:2 "Your people will volunteer freely in the day of Your power; In holy array, from the womb of the dawn, Your youth are to You as the dew."



From the day pagans evolved into modern world and establish their own way. Even thou they seperated from their pagan worhsip Rome forced them to mix their deities and influence with christianism and robbed the followers of Christ of Jesus and they painted him white. Named the G-d of Israel to Zeus and change their panteon.

Hebrew law or mosaic law reminds people to obey but G-d has taken prophets to save and do the will of G-d in wars, missions, and choosing good and evil. They break the law in disobeying G-d, prophets like Jeremiah who chose G-d disobey tradition and his father and told Israel their errors and love for the temple forgotten the temple inside they are made of.
Kick Jeremiah out of their circle rejected from society he continued, we have Moses who was ordered by God to pray to the rock and water will come out but Moses disobey and changes things and hit the rock. This angered God and told him he will not enter the promise land. Moses change what God said changed the destiny israel had to had an error while using the word of God,
Numbers 20:6-12
we have Huldah who made mistake in prophecy which A king said he was going to die A peaceful death 2 Chronicles 34:28 and then he died by arrows and had horrible mistake 2 Chronicles 35:22-24.

Here linkhttps://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-qa/qa-archives/question/do-prophets-of-god-make-mistakes-sometimes/

also Elijah who said Acab will die in one place and Acab did not die according to what Elijah said.
1 Kings 22:1-40

This what shows that destiny changed and the lord allowed it happen he can rewind and move it but he did not becuase he has A plan of God.

Still people can change their course in life if mistake happened like those times of moses. We can change our destiny by failure of men and women who with God prophecy was shown here with Moses and Huldah. Not saying you should make the same mistaek as they did for not God's fault even if moses and huldah with words change the future of Israel and changed the destiny God adjusted to show he forgives moses and Huldah and those did happen. Destiny of your life being a poor shoesales man, poor garbageman, and what you see in your future can always change but ask God for it and do not make the mistakes Moses and Huldah did.

People can change their course in life but what is the promblem from today. Is how the Greek way of thinking of liberalism was popular in the time of Jesus.

James 2:12 "So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty."

2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."


And Greeks influence the time of jesus that people like Luke wrote his book in the bible and later Catholic church not knowing fully Hebrew culture copied things from greeks and influence the bible. Remember they were not G-d's people but A country that stoled and wrote their intrepretation of G-d and took Jesus as an emblema that is not real.

Greek theology is freedom and rationalist thought, Hebrew people is Law and Relation with the one G-d. Greeks have influence the modernworld and gives them right, the western world copies Greek and Roman culture and their diffinity in their laws have given the modern topic freewill. So freewill clashes with freewill in the old times. That is why everything has to do with predestination, Calvanism go ahead and read see all our versions of choosing good and evil have consequences but still you decide your future.


There are 2 fields :indeterminism and determinism explain modern freewill and both give notion of control. Indeterminism means free acts are not determine in other words what you do with works does not foretold your future and the path you have chosen. Determinism says everything you do has already decided your future and you have no career. Nothing can change your destiny but G-d can.

Matthew 12:37 “For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

God's general sovereignty- says god is in charge of everything but doesn't control everything
God's specific sovereignty- says that He not only has ordained everything, but He also controls everything.

Proverbs 16:9 “The mind of the man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps.

Proverbs 3:5-6"Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight."

Simple answer.

1. Adam and Eve were made with free will.
2. they lost it when they disobeyed.
3. All men are mad ein teh image of Adam now- sinners by nature.
4. Paul said we are all enslaved to sin and obey its lusts.
5. Paul also said it is impossible for natural man to please god.
6. Once we are saved,/born again, our free will is resotred. Only Christians have the ability to live godly or evil. the lost cannot live godly. It takes God inside a person to live godly.
 

michaelvpardo

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The Spirit is born again of God.......
That is your verse.
THe 'Right to become, children of God", is based on.....>"Faith, ..... comes by hearing.".... Not by being FORCD to Believe, as Calvin's Heresy has taught you.

God then gives the BELIEVER the "power to become, a Son of God".....John 1:12... because you RECEIVED HIM......(Christ) not because you were FORCED by Calvin's Crazy predestined elect theology.

To BECOME the child of God, is God accepting your faith, to then GIVE YOU,, "the Gift Of Salvation".


Reader....

I'll ask you to take 5 minis away from Calvin and just think.

1.) Did God tell us to Keep the Commandments?
So, if we are pre-determined to keep them, why would He need to tell us to do it?

2.) Did God tell US....>"to Present your body a living sacrifice"?
So, if we were pre-destined to do it???, why would God tell us to do it, as there would be no need to tell us..

3.) Did God tell us to "be holy as He is holy"?
So, if God predetermined that we would, according to Calvin's insane theology, then Why would God need to tell us to do it?

4.) If God predestined us to do what He wants, there would be no need for a Bible, as it would be Automatic......all of it.

But its NOT......so, the reason God gives us the ORDERS< is because we have the right of Free Will to NOT DO IT., Exactly as Christ, who became ONE OF US< had the freewill option to not go to the Cross.
He decided to do His FATHER's WILL...... =FREE WILL option.

And You have the same, every single day.
I am not now, nor have I ever been a "Calvinist".
Where do you get this stuff from?
The only Calvin I'm familiar with is a cartoon character with a pet tiger.
You do know that the whole point of a new and better covenant was that we were incapable of keeping the old, right?

"“Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD. “For this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD: “I will put My law within them and write it on their heart; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. They will not teach again, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their wrongdoing, and their sin I will no longer remember.” Jeremiah 31:31-34
 

grumix8

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Because one you have since Adam " Choice " he can choose and not like the devil you can change your tinking that everything is decide you have to think outside the box ! People here the conlflict so many people is your freewill because everything is predestined you think you never had any choice God gave you A choice ! You were sent here by God A long time ago for God said he met you and knew you before you were concieved in your mother's womb. You ahve planned God sent you, you don't know it ! Yet. Were all part of God's divine plan and when he sent you here before you came to this world he gave A mission ! What is your mission or purpose ?

You can decide to use God's will, holy spirit , God's plan (it's all separeted but works for his plan at the end!) and love in his mission your purpose or don't know and live in ignorance an sin ! He give you choice and does not force yourself to do his bidding if so you would not have fredom to choose also from JEsus salvation which he agve freely from love !
 

grumix8

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Instinct is part of freewill but also consciousness you feel there for you exist you talk therefore you exist.

God said that man has eaten of the fruti of good and evil and said Genesis 3:22

22Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil. And now, lest he reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever...”

Be like god and the angels who knew good and evil !

Man is not God but it's show we can interact in good and evil but still it is that we can do why people ? Understand the freewill is biblical and is before our creation and it existed in one individual I do not like talking about but in " Lucifer ". He had freewill and unlike it was impossible for angels by many theologist for angels to concieve freedom and think for themselves proves the same questions exist before us with angels and they had choice and could escape their destiny and Lucifer chosed wrong. Lesson that our minds do come in question whether your free or you prisioner of yourself to be free is A mentality and put in God's way in his hands gives you freedom !
 

grumix8

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Yes, our purpose was not good or evil and by human fault we felled. If the tree was not their we would of fallen one will ask ? Nope, everything has plan and God never wanted man in this position what was the purpose of the tree afterwards ? if he would never eaten of it would of other animals eat of it and not man ? or later remove as time passed ? We will never know ? What was really the purpose just as A test of not to be eaten and later remove by God ?
 

grumix8

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But still we know God said that man was like him and the angels that knoweth good and evil ! And still we realize the devil had freewill before us and he fell ! But we know that in our error of Adam we can decide not like the devil but do good in the mistake and rely on God's effort and not our owns and put things in God's hands. Our destiny can change and move but some of you question we cannot escape him or his destiny he saved for us.

The question do you want the destiny he did not prepare and leave us in possibility of A million to one what will happen and man just be thrown in space and let him decide ? What will be the outcome if you can plan everyhing since your born from A baby and turn into an adult that instance and God gave you all the power of the future and destiny you wanted ? you will know what you know and you will make A decision better ?

Going to pst what dave said one time please follow thru !
 

grumix8

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A friend posted this !

1689dave said :

Originally Posted by Brightfame52
Since God controls our choices, mans will isnt free from Gods control, His Purpose, is that right ?
God controls every choice every person freely makes causing them to align with His unchangeable eternal plan. He controls us through the reasons He sends for us to base our choices on. Yet we choose what we want most based on these reasons so we incur the guilt or blessing that comes from the choice.
 

grumix8

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Brightframe:
Not only is mans will not free from the Sovereign control of Gods will and purpose, neither is mans free from his wicked sinful nature, for by nature we are all slaves to our sin nature which is controled by the devil. Eph 2:1-3

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
By nature, while spiritually dead, we walk according to the prince of the power of the air, a spirit that remains at work in the unbelievers, constituting them disobedient, and unfortunaetly there is no way to freewill ourselves out from under this control, and our wills are under this mighty control.
Jesus calls it being a servant or slave to sin Jn 8:34
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Folks this describes all of us by nature, until, if Jesus is so pleased, to quicken us from this spiritual death and slavery.
 

grumix8

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Dave:

Free will turns God into a bully who makes people "say uncle" or do whatever their brand of religion tells them to do to save themselves. I.e., make decisions, use sacraments, etc., or He will torture them forever. This is a very nasty bully god.

It also makes God out to be a character who bribes people with rewards if they sell their souls to him after "saying uncle". This is salvation by works and has nothing to with God and salvation by grace. Grace instead saves a person when their will can only choose sin. and the Holy Spirit then bears witness in their hearts causing them to believe in and love Christ.
 

grumix8

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Then another friend named Jesustruth said :

Do we have freewill or is it biblical ?
We have freewill. God wants us to choose to love Him. and dave replied.


Originally Posted by Jesus'Truth

Do we have freewill or is it biblical ?

We have freewill. God wants us to choose to love Him.
Where do you get that Idea? We hate God and love our idols unless God gives us a supernatural change of heart. It's not in us to change. “And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” Deuteronomy 30:6 (KJV 1900)
 

grumix8

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Brightframe replied them !

Originally Posted by Jesus'Truth

Do we have freewill or is it biblical ?

We have freewill. God wants us to choose to love Him.
Those God Loves shall love Him, 1 Jn 4:18-19
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
19 We love him, because he first loved us.

God first Loved His People He chose in Christ Jesus, and sooner or later, He gives them new spiritual life with a new heart to love Him Deut 30:6
And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
 

grumix8

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You cannot be saved on your own efforts only in G-d's effort and how do you obtian them ?

Just like Jesus did. The bible says God came as the son and came without power and did so for A reason. And he came without power. Why did God came as Jesus with no power but one to pray to God. God came as man naked and could die like any other man ! He did not bring A host of angels with him. He show the whole world how he wanted man before the fall of man, praying. Jesus prayed and prayed he prayed in the morning , in the evning, and in the night.

And what he said is

Matthew 6:10
10 Your kingdom come, Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

Jesus is the second Adam he is what Adam was suppsoed to be and Jesus was not giant like adam, he had no superpowers like Superman or Samson, he had no army to prove what God wanted from man to talk to him and pray and do the 2 commands " Love thy father and they neighbor " That si all to be like Jesus simple.

Do that ! He didn't came with A huge host of angels and ended the world he let them repent and have A choice to love him and be saved by him. You put things in God's hands and when A storm comes you don't let go of his hands and show you were faithful to him.
 

grumix8

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Dave said this.

Martin Luther overthrew the notion of free will with this simple point.
Paul teaches, Rom. vii. and Gal. v., that there is in the saints, and in the godly, so powerful a warfare between the spirit and the flesh, that they cannot do what they would. From this warfare I argue thus:
If the nature of man be so evil, even in those who are born again of the Spirit, that it does not only not endeavour after good, but is even averse to, and militates against good, how should it endeavour after good in those who are not born again of the Spirit, and who are still in the "old man," and serve under Satan?
Luther, Martin. The Bondage of the Will (p. 162). Neeland Media LLC. Kindle Edition.
 

grumix8

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Jesustruth


Originally Posted by 1689dave

Where do you get that Idea?
God wants us to choose to love Him.

John 7:17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

James 4:4 You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

Isaiah 65:11-12 "But as for you who forsake the LORD and forget my holy mountain, who spread a table for Fortune and fill bowls of mixed wine for Destiny, I will destine you for the sword, and you will all bend down for the slaughter; for I called but you did not answer, I spoke but you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and chose what displeases me."

1 Peter 4:3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do--living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.

Joshua 24:15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."

Deuteronomy 30:19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live


We have a choice.
 

grumix8

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Jesustruth:


Originally Posted by 1689dave

We hate God and love our idols unless God gives us a supernatural change of heart. It's not in us to change. “And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” Deuteronomy 30:6 (KJV 1900)
God circumcises our heart by our obeying His words and His words are that we repent of our sins.
Ezekiel 18:31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel?
Not all only hate God and love sin.
We are flesh and spirit.
Some people want more out of this life than pleasing their flesh with sin.
 

grumix8

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Jesustruth
Originally Posted by Brightfame52

Those God Loves shall love Him, 1 Jn 4:18-19
God loves those who love Him.


John 15:10 If you obey my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commandments and remain in his love.

John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."
 

grumix8

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Jesustruth:

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
Proverbs 8:17 I love those who love me,
1 Samuel 2:30 "Therefore the LORD, the God of Israel, declares: 'I promised that members of your family would minister before me forever.'But now the LORD declares: 'Far be it from me! Those who honor me I will honor, but those who despise me will be disdained.
Psalm 91:14 "Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.
Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
Psalm 145:20 The LORD watches over all who love him, but all the wicked he will destroy.
James 1:12 Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.