Is freewill real or just something we invented it ?
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Behold
Well-Known Member
God's sovereignty does not control man's free will, tho there are cults that deny the Cross.... Galatians 1:8 who teach that man has no free will and God chooses some for Hell and chooses some for heaven.
God gave us freewill , he gave it in Eden if they did not have freewill the devil could not of rebelled in heaven something I like not talking about. We can choose and the bible does say to choose to sin or to choose not to sin given people the choice.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
Charles Spurgeon,
"Free will carried many a soul to hell, but never a soul to heaven.
Free-will doctrine-what does it? It magnifies man into God. It declares God's purposes a nullity, since they cannot be carried out unless men are willing. It makes God's will a waiting servant to the will of man, and the whole covenant of grace dependent on human action. Denying election on the ground of injustice, it holds God to be a debtor to sinners.
I do not come into this pulpit hoping that perhaps somebody will of his own free will return to Christ. My hope lies in another quarter. I hope that my Master will lay hold of some of them and say, "You are mine, and you shall be mine. I claim you for myself." My hope arises from the freeness of grace, and not from the freedom of the will.
Free will I have often heard of, but I have never seen it. I have always met with will, and plenty of it, but it has either been led captive by sin or held in the blessed bonds of grace.
We would labor earnestly to raise a believer in salvation by free will into a believer in salvation by grace, for we long to see all religious teaching built upon the solid rock of truth and not upon the sand of imagination. At the same time, our grand object is not the revision of opinions, but the regeneration of natures. We should bring men to Christ, not to our own particular views of Christianity.
His will cannot be neutral or 'free' to act contrary to his nature."
"Free will carried many a soul to hell, but never a soul to heaven.
Free-will doctrine-what does it? It magnifies man into God. It declares God's purposes a nullity, since they cannot be carried out unless men are willing. It makes God's will a waiting servant to the will of man, and the whole covenant of grace dependent on human action. Denying election on the ground of injustice, it holds God to be a debtor to sinners.
I do not come into this pulpit hoping that perhaps somebody will of his own free will return to Christ. My hope lies in another quarter. I hope that my Master will lay hold of some of them and say, "You are mine, and you shall be mine. I claim you for myself." My hope arises from the freeness of grace, and not from the freedom of the will.
Free will I have often heard of, but I have never seen it. I have always met with will, and plenty of it, but it has either been led captive by sin or held in the blessed bonds of grace.
We would labor earnestly to raise a believer in salvation by free will into a believer in salvation by grace, for we long to see all religious teaching built upon the solid rock of truth and not upon the sand of imagination. At the same time, our grand object is not the revision of opinions, but the regeneration of natures. We should bring men to Christ, not to our own particular views of Christianity.
His will cannot be neutral or 'free' to act contrary to his nature."
the verses their are more that explain your argument I have read them but read deep in scripture, Behold only helping you understand truly freewill a huge area that we need to see the whole picture and see how God will want it. Not thru our own experience but what he originally planned in the Eden is how he wanted freewill to work for us. Put things in God's hands and add more verses to your argument please.
Patrick1966
Well-Known Member
God gave us freewill , he gave it in Eden if they did not have freewill the devil could not of rebelled in heaven something I like not talking about. We can choose and the bible does say to choose to sin or to choose not to sin given people the choice.
Premise 1: There are 3 billion people who never heard of Christ -see https://www.christiantoday.com/arti...lion.who.have.never.heard.of.jesus/136398.htm
Premise 2: One must know of Christ to be saved (John 3:18)
Conclusion: Free will is impossible to at least 25%
Premise 1: Approximately 25% of individuals do not reach the age of accountability due to abortions, sickness, miscarriages, war, etc.
Conclusion: Free will is impossible for all these people
Premise 1: Children have a great tendency to be of the same religion as their parent(s) ... see https://www.pewresearch.org/religio...us-upbringing-and-current-religious-identity/
Conclusion: The decision of people is very often not entirely their own which contradicts the concept of free will
Premise 1: Free Will is not found in the bible
Conclusion: Free Will is not biblical. ... like "dah".
Premise 2: One must know of Christ to be saved (John 3:18)
Conclusion: Free will is impossible to at least 25%
Premise 1: Approximately 25% of individuals do not reach the age of accountability due to abortions, sickness, miscarriages, war, etc.
Conclusion: Free will is impossible for all these people
Premise 1: Children have a great tendency to be of the same religion as their parent(s) ... see https://www.pewresearch.org/religio...us-upbringing-and-current-religious-identity/
Conclusion: The decision of people is very often not entirely their own which contradicts the concept of free will
Premise 1: Free Will is not found in the bible
Conclusion: Free Will is not biblical. ... like "dah".
you only see one point of the whole area Behold doesn't mean your are right but on the contrary you just hold that one word such freewill a word in the modern world has created does not mean it doesn't exist. Freewill exist and god created it and wants us to see it how he holds it to see he has freewill given and Jesus is our example of freewill perfect he had it how it wants and in the eyes of the lord he came here to show to us he's way of how freewill. Don't be like the scientist saying he doesn't have opportunities when he is lazy and wants his way instead of God's way.
You do not understand what is freewill from God's point of view or from Jesus point of view.
You do not understand what is freewill from God's point of view or from Jesus point of view.
Remember there many definitions of freewill. Determinism, freewill modern liberalism, freewill biblical, freewill your own experience, and freewill thru God his way when he created creationa nd from Jesus point of view how he wanted.
We are all learning freewill and we are seeing the deep of this huge field of freewill theology which is great in rich text and defines our relation with him in if we really trust, we trust him a percentage, we trust him like a child to a parent or we do not realize what we are ? Really we don't know the trueselves. Remember God says he has meant before you were born and he has plan of God for ya. He sent you here for a purpose one you and him agreed when he sent you here to do something he wanted to find your purpose on how you use your will and put in his hand find the secret thing of God sent you here.
He will reveal it to you in prayer and test and find the relation of Jesus how he used freewill and find when you try to do it like him even do impossible you will find why he sent you here in this planet.
We all have different purposes here in this planet but what he wants in his secret plan for you only and to do his plan you will discover the secret of life and love and his will.
Our will must be in his to know what he wanted us to do ;D.
We are all learning freewill and we are seeing the deep of this huge field of freewill theology which is great in rich text and defines our relation with him in if we really trust, we trust him a percentage, we trust him like a child to a parent or we do not realize what we are ? Really we don't know the trueselves. Remember God says he has meant before you were born and he has plan of God for ya. He sent you here for a purpose one you and him agreed when he sent you here to do something he wanted to find your purpose on how you use your will and put in his hand find the secret thing of God sent you here.
He will reveal it to you in prayer and test and find the relation of Jesus how he used freewill and find when you try to do it like him even do impossible you will find why he sent you here in this planet.
We all have different purposes here in this planet but what he wants in his secret plan for you only and to do his plan you will discover the secret of life and love and his will.
Our will must be in his to know what he wanted us to do ;D.
Be the person you were before he sent you here, when you were in heaven for some it's being a child again for others being the mature and repsonsible person to achive like Jesus it will be revealed those secrets of us inside. The world teaches us to be liek the world and buy and sell, eat and drink and just sleep forget the world and you important. When you find God and you dig inside of you and ask God tell me why
you sent me here to save my friends to go to war and save someone you have in your perfect plan or for me just for one day help someone
you want in the future he becomes christian and enjoy the rest of my life with my family and he agve it easy for you ;D. it could be the smallest things or biggest to be president. He told you to be here in this world.
This is why we must go and ask him and pass God's test and when he sees he will show you his secret things in the bible and show you met him in heaven and he had plan and i'm not saying you are angel he sent you for in the bible Jesus says we will be like angels but in greek and other translation when he says that he just comparing us we cannot prove we are angels in this context but regardless he has a plan and he wanted us to be here for a special reason.
you sent me here to save my friends to go to war and save someone you have in your perfect plan or for me just for one day help someone
you want in the future he becomes christian and enjoy the rest of my life with my family and he agve it easy for you ;D. it could be the smallest things or biggest to be president. He told you to be here in this world.
This is why we must go and ask him and pass God's test and when he sees he will show you his secret things in the bible and show you met him in heaven and he had plan and i'm not saying you are angel he sent you for in the bible Jesus says we will be like angels but in greek and other translation when he says that he just comparing us we cannot prove we are angels in this context but regardless he has a plan and he wanted us to be here for a special reason.
Ask God what is he sent you and you will find the secret of freewill and see things in Jesus view in how perfect will in God you have freewill if your the person that comes close to be like Jesus , he will reveal to you why he sent you and give you the powers to get to heaven, to being preisdent to find true love, to be like Jesus and love all like he does and show that secret he gives us all about him and do the thing he wanted you to find. And go thru all probablities to get there and find the things he wanted you showing that Huldah mistake and Moses mistake of hitting the rock and in error of man destiny can be changed but thru love and prayer to him and finding true love finding his secret of why he sent you, and finding the real things of the bible perhaps is why he sent you, so you can find the real things of the bible and help the world.
See that the error of Moses and huldah shows by example that destiny can go other way and for a purpose he has in secret and thru he's test he can reveal secrets their and showed us Moses error was left to show we can do the opposite and change the destiny by love and faith we could change error in love and it can go into actions in the future that will change histroy and we can move destiny not in error like moses but love can change it ? Yes it is possible even though you cannot understand that something I do understand of how the universe and
possibilities can change and we can change things for good and not make the mistake like moses did and huldah and get more people saved and have more people been baptized yes. Their are exception and God has given us exceptions that destiny can be changed and that determinism by his will can exist without him be having control all over the universe.
See that the error of Moses and huldah shows by example that destiny can go other way and for a purpose he has in secret and thru he's test he can reveal secrets their and showed us Moses error was left to show we can do the opposite and change the destiny by love and faith we could change error in love and it can go into actions in the future that will change histroy and we can move destiny not in error like moses but love can change it ? Yes it is possible even though you cannot understand that something I do understand of how the universe and
possibilities can change and we can change things for good and not make the mistake like moses did and huldah and get more people saved and have more people been baptized yes. Their are exception and God has given us exceptions that destiny can be changed and that determinism by his will can exist without him be having control all over the universe.
And love is how God shows he can change the universe and chaneg timelines and move things in a better way ? Yes. God could end our civilization end this and do another things and change us all. God can erase form our minds and erase in that instant to israelites in the desert to forget moses amde that error or send an angel in that instant stop him from making that error nothing is impossible to the lord. God can but he wants us to learn he wants us to love he wants us to be in his story in our universe.
Truly he can change it all make it perfect he is God. God of gods, but by doing those things he lets us see the blindspot to our advantage that we can change our destiny to be president to be the secret things he sent you here to know what purpose, to do more than we our just simple human beings but with him we can change the future and be what we want. Some of you do not understand that because you do not know becuase you don't know why your here but I know why i'm here and know those secret stuff becuase he told us all why he sent us here from heaven and it's in the bible and your personal life to know what those things are.
Some of us will the real things of the bible and when we know we realize he a bigger plan than we know he wanted us to do the secret stuff of the bible. ;D.
Truly he can change it all make it perfect he is God. God of gods, but by doing those things he lets us see the blindspot to our advantage that we can change our destiny to be president to be the secret things he sent you here to know what purpose, to do more than we our just simple human beings but with him we can change the future and be what we want. Some of you do not understand that because you do not know becuase you don't know why your here but I know why i'm here and know those secret stuff becuase he told us all why he sent us here from heaven and it's in the bible and your personal life to know what those things are.
Some of us will the real things of the bible and when we know we realize he a bigger plan than we know he wanted us to do the secret stuff of the bible. ;D.
From my perspective and perception is yes. Free will is real. And everyone is accountable for their life they live, and those with mental disorders and disfunction in the brain, God will judge all fairly and rightly. There may be restrictions for some people, but over all, free will to be able think, speak, choose, is very apparent.
From what I understand also is the Calvinistic God is a monster, and the Araminian God is a failure who can’t do anything with his hands tied behind his back.
From what I understand also is the Calvinistic God is a monster, and the Araminian God is a failure who can’t do anything with his hands tied behind his back.
St. Joseph
Active Member
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