Is God finished with Israel?

[CadyandZoe]

Yes. Of which the throne and tabernacle of David were types/shadows. David's earthly rule and kingdom was a type/shadow of the heavenly. Jesus IS king of Israel.....the Israel of God. At the time Jesus came to earth, David's throne and tabernacle had been broken down....Israel had broken covenant with God and usurpers were on David's earthly throne, who were not his descendants. Jesus restored the throne and tabernacle of David when He began to rule. (Most of Israel refused His Kingship though, which was by faith not by an earthly crown - which Jesus fled from when some tried to crown Him.)

Remember that David was a conquering King who conquered Gentile territory including Jerusalem, and ruled over Gentiles...he united the 12 tribes and also made Israel into a small expanding empire. And that is the context in which the Acts 15 verse is written, explaining the gospel which has come not just to gather Israel but to the Gentiles as well. David's throne/tabernacle were restored in Christ who also rules over Gentiles and takes Gentile "territory" with the gospel. My reading of Acts is that the writer was saying that that OT passage from Amos is being fulfilled in Christ and His gospel which extends not only to the Jews but to the Gentiles as well. The writer was speaking of the present time that was then, not of a far future time.

Well, I suppose Jesus might be sitting on a shadow. I don't know. I think the prophets speak about a time when Jesus will rule from a restored Jerusalem that will once again be called "the city of righteousness." Do you agree?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It is entirely about who is saved and who is not saved.

No it is not. The nation of Israel has never been about who is saved and who is not

I don't have to guess. You believe in salvation by physical DNA.

You sir are bearing false witness. Typical of people who deny God keeps his promises. you believe gods promise to the nation of israel had to do with their own salvation when it never did. And you attack people who believe Gods keeps his promises as believing they all will be saved because of their DNA which is not only a false argument, but bears false witness

I ask you again, DO you believe salvation must be maintained by works or continued obedience. Please answer

 

[CadyandZoe]

He did say that He came to fulfill many things, even "all", referring to that generation to whom He spoke, saying "Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation." Matthew 23:36 and also Matthew 24:34

As for the rest of the world, He foretold what He would do next, saying, "And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd." John 10:16

As for ruling as King, He also gave the time as being after He was crucified, not speaking of a distant future but a future that those to whom He was speaking at that time would see, saying "I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Matthew 26:64

But these things were not believed...resulting in strong delusion over these many generations.

Was Jesus speaking about the generation alive when he spoke or the generation that will exist later when the prophecy is fulfilled?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Paul identifies two Israels, "all Israel" and "of Israel".

Only "all Israel" will be saved. (Romans 11:26)

The point is, the "all Israel" is a future generation of Hebrews, living in the land of Palestine.

 

[covenantee]

No it is not. The nation of Israel has never been about who is saved and who is not

You sir are bearing false witness. Typical of people who deny God keeps his promises. you believe gods promise to the nation of israel had to do with their own salvation when it never did. And you attack people who believe Gods keeps his promises as believing they all will be saved because of their DNA which is not only a false argument, but bears false witness

I ask you again, DO you believe salvation must be maintained by works or continued obedience. Please answer

"The nation of Israel has never been about who is saved and who is not"

It doesn't get any more absurd than that.

Israel has always been about who is saved and who is not i.e. those who were in faithful obedient covenant relationship with God, and those who rebelled and forsook their covenant relationship with Him.

The former, God blessed and preserved.

The latter, He slew by the thousands.

There has always been a true Israel within Israel.

Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Do you deny that we are "created in Christ Jesus unto good works"?
Please answer.

You continue to insist that Israel is saved by physical DNA. That is the racism which permeates df, and upon which df relies for its apostate survival.

But God is not a racist. (Acts 10:34-35)

Stop trying to racialize Him.

 

[covenantee]

The point is, the "all Israel" is a future generation of Hebrews, living in the land of Palestine.

Romans 9:6
For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Scripture's point is that are is in the present tense today, and was 2,000 years ago.

Not a futurized delusion.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

"The nation of Israel has never been about who is saved and who is not"

Your right. Thank you for agreeing with me

It doesn't get any more absurd than that.

Your the one who thinks when God chose the nation of Israel it had to do with who is saved or not. Not me..

Israel has always been about who is saved and who is not i.e. those who were in faithful obedient covenant relationship with God, and those who rebelled and forsook their covenant relationship with Him.

Please show me in Gen 12, 15 and 17 where the requirment for being a child of Abraham through the one seed is salvation.

You talk about absurd, what you just posted is absurd!!!

The former, God blessed and preserved.

The latter, He slew by the thousands.

He told them HOW to be blessed and HOW to be cursed in lev 26. You act as if it wad a secret or something..

Not only where they told they would be punished AS A NATION, they were told they would be released and remembered IF THEY REPENT.

There has always been a true Israel within Israel.

True Isreal is through BLOOD

Again, unless you can tell me where God required them to be saved in the origional covenant made to abraham, i am all ears

Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Do you deny that we are "created in Christ Jesus unto good works"?
Please answer.

I did not ask you that

I asked you if you believe works are required to MAINTAIN salvation

Can you answer the question? I have asked you twice now. Is it that hard??

You continue to insist that Israel is saved by physical DNA. That is the racism which permeates df, and upon which df relies for its apostate survival.

I have NEVER said or even suggested that Israel is saved in unbelief You have now falsly accused me multiple times my friend. Can you ever listen to what people say.

You want to keep falsely accusing me when your an not even answer my question? How dare you!!!!

But God is not a racist. (Acts 10:34-35)

Stop trying to racialize Him.

I never made him a racist. I just believe he keeps his promises and his gifts and calling are irrevocable

it appears to me you do not

Now one more time, can you answer my question. Do you believe we must work to maintain salvation. I will not ask again. Refusal to answer will suggest to me you do believ =we must maintain salvation but are afraid to admit it..

 

[covenantee]

True Isreal is through BLOOD

True Israel has ever only been determined through faith and obedience.

Stop trying to impose df racism to contort God into a racist.

Please show me in Gen 12, 15 and 17 where the requirment for being a child of Abraham through the one seed is salvation.

Genesis 17:12
And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

Nothing to do with being a child of Abraham, and everything to do with a covenant relationship with God.


Salvation is by grace through saving faith, and ongoing obedience. Works are part of obedience. So ongoing obedience and its associated works are requisites to maintain ongoing salvation.

Spare us any OSAS nonsense.

Can one engage in prolonged willful disobedience and still remain saved?

 

[covenantee]

He told them HOW to be blessed and HOW to be cursed in lev 26. You act as if it wad a secret or something..

And would that have anything to do with faith and obedience?

You obviously haven't recognized what is anything but a secret.

 

[covenantee]

I never made him a racist. I just believe he keeps his promises and his gifts and calling are irrevocable

The gifts and the calling are terms associated exclusively with those who have put their faith in Christ.

Upon whom does God bestow His gifts?

Romans 12:6
Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

1 Corinthians 12:1
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

1 Corinthians 12:4
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:9
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:12
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

God's gifts were not, and are not, bestowed upon those of Paul's countrymen who are enemies of the gospel.

They are bestowed exclusively upon God's Beloved Election, His Holy Chosen People: His Church.

To them, and to no others, His gifts are irrevocable (i.e. without repentance).


To whom is God's calling directed?

1 Corinthians 1:26
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

1 Corinthians 7:20
Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

Ephesians 1:18
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Ephesians 4:4
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

2 Thessalonians 1:11
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:


God's calling was not, and is not, directed to those of Paul's countrymen who are enemies of the gospel.

It is directed exclusively to God's Beloved Election, His Holy Chosen People: His Church.

To them, and to no others, His calling is irrevocable (i.e. without repentance).

 

[CadyandZoe]

Romans 9:6
For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Scripture's point is that are is in the present tense today, and was 2,000 years ago.

Not a futurized delusion.

Notice how I never use trigger words like "delusion"?

I'm not sure what you think Paul is saying here. Bear in mind that Paul is speaking with reference to an alleged broken promise of God. What promis would that be? For the answer to that we need go no further than the first five verses.

Paul is NOT dealing with a promise God made to Abraham. He is dealing with a Promise God made to the Hebrews as a people.

9 I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises, 5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

Unless you are a Hebrew, the fathers are not YOUR fathers. Unless you are a Hebrew, God didn't give you the Law or the temple service. Unless you are a Hebrew, you are not an Israelite by birth; you are not one of Paul's kinsmen according to the flesh; you are not one of Paul's brethren.

 

[covenantee]

Notice how I never use trigger words like "delusion"?

I'm not sure what you think Paul is saying here. Bear in mind that Paul is speaking with reference to an alleged broken promise of God. What promis would that be? For the answer to that we need go no further than the first five verses.

Paul is NOT dealing with a promise God made to Abraham. He is dealing with a Promise God made to the Hebrews as a people.

9 I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises, 5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

Unless you are a Hebrew, the fathers are not YOUR fathers. Unless you are a Hebrew, God didn't give you the Law or the temple service. Unless you are a Hebrew, you are not an Israelite by birth; you are not one of Paul's kinsmen according to the flesh; you are not one of Paul's brethren.

Paul expounded in the present tense. You claim it is in the future tense.

There's delusion there.

You'll notice that Paul's list does not include salvation, hence Paul's anguish in recognizing that only a remnant would be saved. (Romans 9:27)

Salvation is for the "all Israel" "children of the promise".

Both Jews and Gentiles.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

True Israel has ever only been determined through faith and obedience.

Stop trying to impose df racism to contort God into a racist.

I asked you to show me where in Gen 12 15 and 17 this is spelled out. So why could you not show me where this is true?

Genesis 17:12
And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

Nothing to do with being a child of Abraham, and everything to do with a covenant relationship with God.

This was for anyone to receive the promise which went WITH the nation in question.

do you believe one has to be circumcised to be saved?

Salvation is by grace through saving faith, and ongoing obedience.

Thats what I thought.. You do not believe in Gods promises, your trying to save yourself. what part of not of works lest anyone should boast do you fail to comprehend?

Works are part of obedience. So ongoing obedience and its associated works are requisites to maintain ongoing salvation.

lol. Then we are under law not under grace. and you better live up to Gods standard.,. or you will be in dire trouble

Spare us any OSAS nonsense.

Spare me your self righteous legalistic nonsense.
again, You jusdt proved my point, You reject the fact that God keeps his promises. thats why you reject the fact that Physical Isreal will be restored and God is not done with them.

Can one engage in prolonged willful disobedience and still remain saved?

A child of God can not engage in prolonged willfull disobedience. John made this clear in his epistle. But since you deny the power of God. I can see why you think one could

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And would that have anything to do with faith and obedience?

You obviously haven't recognized what is anything but a secret.

Yes it would

If you are obedient you will be blessed

If you are disobedient you will be cursed

If after you are cursed. you repent. you will once again be blessed

All this was given to the nation of Israel in order for them to ENJOY the covenant and enjoy the LAND given to them

Your the one that has not recognized my friend. Paul warned you as a gentile believer.. You are not heeding pauls warning.

But it appears you have more to worry about. You have your salvation to worry about. Are you going to trust God or your self??

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The gifts and the calling are terms associated exclusively with those who have put their faith in Christ.

Upon whom does God bestow His gifts?

Romans 12:6
Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

1 Corinthians 12:1
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

1 Corinthians 12:4
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:9
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:12
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

God's gifts were not, and are not, bestowed upon those of Paul's countrymen who are enemies of the gospel.

They are bestowed exclusively upon God's Beloved Election, His Holy Chosen People: His Church.

To them, and to no others, His gifts are irrevocable (i.e. without repentance).


To whom is God's calling directed?

1 Corinthians 1:26
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

1 Corinthians 7:20
Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

Ephesians 1:18
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Ephesians 4:4
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

2 Thessalonians 1:11
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:


God's calling was not, and is not, directed to those of Paul's countrymen who are enemies of the gospel.

It is directed exclusively to God's Beloved Election, His Holy Chosen People: His Church.

To them, and to no others, His calling is irrevocable (i.e. without repentance).

Gen 12 15 and 17 tells us that God gave a particular gift to one nation of people. Israel

Non of the NT passages you just posted has anythign to do with that promise

Once again, Show me where God made a provision that they had to be SAVED to recieve the land??

 

[covenantee]

I asked you to show me where in Gen 12 15 and 17 this is spelled out. So why could you not show me where this is true?




This was for anyone to receive the promise which went WITH the nation in question.

do you believe one has to be circumcised to be saved?



Thats what I thought.. You do not believe in Gods promises, your trying to save yourself. what part of not of works lest anyone should boast do you fail to comprehend?


lol. Then we are under law not under grace. and you better live up to Gods standard.,. or you will be in dire trouble


Spare me your self righteous legalistic nonsense.
again, You jusdt proved my point, You reject the fact that God keeps his promises. thats why you reject the fact that Physical Isreal will be restored and God is not done with them.



A child of God can not engage in prolonged willfull disobedience. John made this clear in his epistle. But since you deny the power of God. I can see why you think one could

Most of your post is unquotable and barely readable.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Paul expounded in the present tense. You claim it is in the future tense.

There's delusion there.

You'll notice that Paul's list does not include salvation, hence Paul's anguish in recognizing that only a remnant would be saved. (Romans 9:27)

Salvation is for the "all Israel" "children of the promise".

Both Jews and Gentiles.

Good God talk about hate!

We should wish ALL people be saved, jew or gentile. Your hatred is showing up in piles..

Paul wished ALL his bretheryn would be saved, he even said he woudl be willing to give up his salvation if ALL his bretheryn could be saved..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Most of your post is unquotable and barely readable.

I corrected the post.. It had a formatting error

 

[covenantee]

I asked you to show me where in Gen 12 15 and 17 this is spelled out. So why could you not show me where this is true?

I quoted Genesis 17:12. Your spiritual undiscernment and racism prevent you from understanding it.

If after you are cursed. you repent. you will once again be blessed

I'm pleased to see you said "if". Korah and his followers did not repent, and died. The multitude of Israelites who died of snakebite did not repent, and died. Multitudes of others did not repent, and died.

All this was given to the nation of Israel in order for them to ENJOY the covenant and enjoy the LAND given to them

They received all that God had promised. Joshua 21:43,45

Your the one that has not recognized my friend. Paul warned you as a gentile believer.. You are not heeding pauls warning.

Paul has repudiated df and its racist apostasy. "All Israel" is saved. "Of Israel" is lost. Faith and obedience are the sole and exclusive determinants.

 

[covenantee]

Good God talk about hate!

We should wish ALL people be saved, jew or gentile. Your hatred is showing up in piles..

Paul wished ALL his bretheryn would be saved, he even said he woudl be willing to give up his salvation if ALL his bretheryn could be saved..

So why didn't Paul say that they would be saved? He must have been full of hate.

Hint: Spiritual DNA. Two genes.

You now know what they are.