IS JESUS' SACRIFICE ETERNAL?

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Phoneman777

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I agree. But I also see His sacrifice as going down in OUR time and belonging to all men. When I go to a Catholic Mass I see that the sacrifice is brought to our TIME, as if we were standing at the foot of the cross. I find this very beautiful, I can't really explain it.

Jesus did, however, die once and for all. No other sacrifices necessary.
It just seems to me that it's for ALL TIME.

Oh. And I don't believe Catholics see Christ as a defeated Christ who is still on the cross. I used to think this too, but it's not true. They see a Christ that is resurrected and alive. (I'm not Catholic, but do some studying with them).
While we "do this in remembrance of Me", it is our memorial of His death - Communion - that is eternal, not the death of Jesus itself....it seems to me.
 

GodsGrace

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I know what I said.

I do not need to repeat your whole post to respond to it.

It is not a secret God is the provider.
It seemed to be a secret God also provided Science.
It is not a secret everything God provides is intended for man use for good.
It is not secret not all men choose to use Gods provisions For good.

What exactly is still a mystery to you?

Glory to God,
Taken
Maybe YOU know what I said and what YOU said,,,but those reading along may not.

What's a mystery to me is why some do not post entire statements of the other member.
 

GodsGrace

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While we "do this in remembrance of Me", it is our memorial of His death - Communion - that is eternal, not the death of Jesus itself....it seems to me.
Your reply is exactly what I'm talking about.

Not knowing physics, this becomes difficult to explain...but;
Since God is outside time,,,His sacrifice LIVES throughout all of time...
For US, He died that one time in Jerusalem 2,000 years ago...
But for God, who lives outside of time...His sacrifice goes down into all eternity as something true and happening right now.

NOT like He's being sacrificed again every day,,,but just as a reality.

For every new born-again believer, it's his accepting Jesus' sacrifice NOW, that saves him...For that person, Jesus died at that moment.

This is too metaphysical...too abstract.
Maybe we should let it go?
:)
 
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bbyrd009

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For US, He died that one time in Jerusalem 2,000 years ago...
But for God, who lives outside of time...His sacrifice goes down into all eternity as something true and happening right now.

NOT like He's being sacrificed again every day,,,but just as a reality.

For every new born-again believer, it's his accepting Jesus' sacrifice NOW, that saves him...For that person, Jesus died at that moment.
nice imo

the Lamb is slain from the foundation of the world, right, so we might see the possibility that "the foundation of the world" can be understood more than one way! :)
 

Taken

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Maybe YOU know what I said and what YOU said,,,but those reading along may not.

What's a mystery to me is why some do not post entire statements of the other member.

Sometimes I don't because it is lengthy, or I am responding to only a portion.

God Bless,
Take
 

GodsGrace

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Sometimes I don't because it is lengthy, or I am responding to only a portion.

God Bless,
Take
Understood.
But it should properly reflect what the other member said...
It just sounded like I was saying something I didn't say...
Journalists do this too...
 
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bbyrd009

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Maybe YOU know what I said and what YOU said,,,but those reading along may not.

What's a mystery to me is why some do not post entire statements of the other member.
i am bad about quoting too short a snip i guess; my justification was always that the poster i am replying to already knows the context, and anyone else reading along should too, or if not there is a button in the quote window to go back and refresh?
but i do try to snip longer ones now, when there is any ambiguity
 
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epostle

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Your reply is exactly what I'm talking about.

Not knowing physics, this becomes difficult to explain...but;
Since God is outside time,,,His sacrifice LIVES throughout all of time...
For US, He died that one time in Jerusalem 2,000 years ago...
But for God, who lives outside of time...His sacrifice goes down into all eternity as something true and happening right now.

NOT like He's being sacrificed again every day,,,but just as a reality.

For every new born-again believer, it's his accepting Jesus' sacrifice NOW, that saves him...For that person, Jesus died at that moment.
This is too metaphysical...too abstract.
Maybe we should let it go?
:)
That's why we call His sacrifice a mystery. A mystery is something we can know some things about it, but we can't know everything about it. A mystery transcends reason, but doesn't go against reason. The Trinity is a mystery.
Ephesians 5:32- Paul calls the Church a “mystery.” This means that the significance of the Church as the kingdom of God in our midst cannot be understood by reason alone. Understanding the Church also requires faith. “Church” does not mean a building of believers. That is not a mystery. Non-Catholics often view church as mere community, but not the supernatural mystery of Christ physically present among us.

Heb. 4:3 – God’s works were finished from the foundation of the world. This means that God’s works, including Christ’s sacrifice (the single act that secured the redemption of our souls and bodies), are forever present in eternity. Jesus’ suffering is over and done with (because suffering was earthly and temporal), but His sacrifice is eternal, because His priesthood is eternal (His victimized state was only temporal).
THE EUCHARIST - Scripture Catholic
 
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GodsGrace

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That's why we call His sacrifice a mystery. A mystery is something we can know some things about it, but we can't know everything about it. A mystery transcends reason, but doesn't go against reason. The Trinity is a mystery.
Ephesians 5:32- Paul calls the Church a “mystery.” This means that the significance of the Church as the kingdom of God in our midst cannot be understood by reason alone. Understanding the Church also requires faith. “Church” does not mean a building of believers. That is not a mystery. Non-Catholics often view church as mere community, but not the supernatural mystery of Christ physically present among us.

Heb. 4:3 – God’s works were finished from the foundation of the world. This means that God’s works, including Christ’s sacrifice (the single act that secured the redemption of our souls and bodies), are forever present in eternity. Jesus’ suffering is over and done with (because suffering was earthly and temporal), but His sacrifice is eternal, because His priesthood is eternal (His victimized state was only temporal).
THE EUCHARIST - Scripture Catholic
Hi E, thanks for posting this and the link.
I read it...I liked the Hebrew verses very much...like these:

Heb. 2:17; 3:1; 4:14; 8:1; 9:11,25; 10:19,22 – Jesus is repeatedly described as “High Priest.” But in order to be a priest, “it is necessary for [Jesus] to have something to offer.” Heb. 8:3. This is the offering of the eternal sacrifice of His body and blood to the Father.

Heb. 2:18 – although His suffering is past tense, His expiation of our sins is present tense because His offering is continual. Therefore, He is able (present tense) to help those who are tempted.
 

VictoryinJesus

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imo this is not the intent of "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world"
even if that is what our pov extracts from it

In another thread you spoke on ‘eternity’ and mentioned: light no man can approach. 1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Thought I would respond here since this is a thread closer to the topic of immortal or ‘eternal’. Consider the verse you gave for an argument against immortality and eternity though? It was an argument against it, right? He dwells in the light... which no man can approach. So you exclude us because we fall under ‘man’? You mentioned He is alone there in the brightness but that is not so. See (Ezekiel 1:4-28) especially: Ezekiel 1:27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about. (Now see the three men in the fire with the forth who is Christ...can they go admist fire without harm? With His raiment you can.

Ezekiel 10:1-2
[1] Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament that was above the head of the cherubims there appeared over them as it were a sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of a throne. [2] And he spake unto the man clothed with linen, and said, Go in between the wheels, even under the cherub, and fill thine hand with coals of fire from between the cherubims, and scatter them over the city. And he went in in my sight.

Immortality. His honour. Able to approach the unapproachable light (a mountain on fire)...what inherits the Kingdom? Is it flesh? Or Spirit?

‘no man has seen’ nor ‘can see’ Him that dwells in the light ... Isaiah 9:2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.
 
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bbyrd009

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Thought I would respond here since this is a thread closer to the topic of immortal or ‘eternal’. Consider the verse you gave for an argument against immortality and eternity though? It was an argument against it, right?
well, "eternity" and "immortality" are being conflated here so i am not quite sure which one is "it," although i'm pretty sure i get you here, more or less, so i'll attempt a reply.

i have no arguments against either one, but i am presently convinced that eternities end, and that i do understand the definition of "Eon." My present position is that the world seeks immortality, just like the Pharaohs and other Dynastic Emperors--all titled "Savior" btw--have always sought, and that Scripture is written so as to hide wisdom from ppl who also seek to get their egos immortality in tomorrow, in some place called heaven, after they have literally died, or what has become known as "death, more abundantly," which i did not make up, as it turns out, meaning that Scripture is intentionally veiled from Determinists, who after all reason logically, seek proof and facts from which to proceed, make plans for tomorrow, seek kings to fight their battles, proudly serve two masters, and i could go on and get quite a bit more pointed here, as i am only reffing the fluff here to spare ppls feelings; read Scripture from their scribes to support their agenda, which is how we get "My Lord and my God" out of "kurios theos" which is patently ridiculous, moan about the sky falling but cannot determine any metric by which the world is getting worse when asked...

so hopefully you see that that is not the only Passage that gives me the impression i hold, and a dialectic understanding of the "absent from the body" passage, "the flesh profits nothing" deal, "you and your sons will be here with me," 1 Samuel 28:13 Lexicon: The king said to her, "Do not be afraid; but what do you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I see a divine being coming up out of the earth.", and many other passages all confirm this impression imo.

so i see you are doing a lot of work to establish an immortality for our Ego--which is that part of us that we consider "Me" right--which i feel i can confidently assure ppl that that is the very part that has to die, and get tossed into the Lake of Fire, which is also not a place. I'm mostly just riffing now, trying to say whatever so that i can either be exposed as a fraud or vindicated in my understanding, and if something else pertinent presents itself i'll be back, and hopefully i have at least sort of addressed your point, if i didn't or you perceive some deflection or dodge in here lemme know
 
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GodsGrace

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well, "eternity" and "immortality" are being conflated here so i am not quite sure which one is "it," although i'm pretty sure i get you here, more or less, so i'll attempt a reply.

i have no arguments against either one, but i am presently convinced that eternities end, and that i do understand the definition of "Eon." My present position is that the world seeks immortality, just like the Pharaohs and other Dynastic Emperors--all titled "Savior" btw--have always sought, and that Scripture is written so as to hide wisdom from ppl who also seek to get their egos immortality in tomorrow, in some place called heaven, after they have literally died, or what has become known as "death, more abundantly," which i did not make up, as it turns out, meaning that Scripture is intentionally veiled from Determinists, who after all reason logically, seek proof and facts from which to proceed, make plans for tomorrow, seek kings to fight their battles, proudly serve two masters, and i could go on and get quite a bit more pointed here, as i am only reffing the fluff here to spare ppls feelings

so hopefully you see that that is not the only Passage that gives me the impression i hold, and a dialectic understanding of the "absent from the body" passage, "the flesh profits nothing" deal, "you and your sons will be here with me," 1 Samuel 28:13 Lexicon: The king said to her, "Do not be afraid; but what do you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I see a divine being coming up out of the earth.", and many other passages all confirm this impression imo.

so i see you are doing a lot of work to establish an immortality for our Ego--which is that part of us that we consider "Me" right--which i feel i can confidently assure ppl that that is the very part that has to die, and get tossed into the Lake of Fire, which is also not a place. I'm mostly just riffing now, trying to say whatever so that i can either be exposed as a fraud or vindicated in my understanding, and if something else pertinent presents itself i'll be back, and hopefully i have at least sort of addressed your point, if i didn't or you perceive some deflection or dodge in here lemme know
bb, you're very good at saying what you DON'T believe...
how about explaining what you DO believe?
What happens to us after we die?
 
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bbyrd009

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bb, you're very good at saying what you DON'T believe...
how about explaining what you DO believe?
i have tried on a few occasions, but what i believe mostly offends ppl here i guess. i believe the world is perfect, right now, the same way a little baby is perfect, and i'm pretty sure God loves us even after we have said "I hate you," same as any parent
What happens to us after we die?
now we're talking, right, and ty for verifying what everyone really cares about, the whole world, me included, i am not immune ok. 2We do not yet know what we will become.

so my reply to that Q for here is
Remove sorrow from your heart, and put away pain from your flesh, because youth and the prime of life are fleeting.
So remember your Creator in the days of your youth: Before the days of adversity come, and the years approach when you will say," I have no delight in them,"

and if that does not serve then i can only say that we have a site chock-full of ppl here who are only too happy to assure you of many things that will all happen tomorrow, and if nothing else i'm sure you and i could agree that they all seem to be pretty convinced i guess, although they do not seem to be in agreement for whatever reason.

I would include that you will get a new name known only to you, written on a white stone, but in the context of "The Revelation of Christ" i don't think that can be applied to your Q

 
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VictoryinJesus

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trying to say whatever so that i can either be exposed as a fraud

I don’t think you are a fraud. You worry too much though...like some bad ego will slip by God unnoticed in to an eternity so you hesitate in acknowledging there even is one. In case someone has ulterior motives which we all probably do; of hope of carrying into the kingdom what we decide to hold onto. Whatever motive I have to search for immortality in His presence...I’m sure God is prepared for. Just because we are human though...doesn’t mean there is no immortality or eternity. His name continues. Not our name.

Hebrews 2:15
[15] And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
 

bbyrd009

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like some bad ego will slip by God unnoticed in to an eternity so you hesitate in acknowledging there even is one.
this infers that there is such a thing as a "good ego," and you might be right, but my understanding at present is that our egos are what make us separate--@aspen might have another perspective there though--and to forward your pov any further i would want to know what is supposed to be dying at baptism, do you think? And secondarily how there can be a "from eternity to eternity" in that perspective, but i'm fam with the "emphasis" arg already
Just because we are human though...doesn’t mean there is no immortality or eternity. His name continues. Not our name.

Hebrews 2:15
[15] And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
i would contemplate the search/desire for immortality as an expression of "fear of death" in the context of this v, not the deliverance of it. Deliver them by disabusing them of the notion forever, iow, only couched in such a way so as to be understood according to our perception
 
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VictoryinJesus

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this infers that there is such a thing as a "good ego," and you might be right, but my understanding at present is that our egos are what make us separate--@aspen might have another perspective there though--and to forward your pov any further i would want to know what is supposed to be dying at baptism, do you think? And secondarily how there can be a "from eternity to eternity" in that perspective, but i'm fam with the "emphasis" arg already

i would contemplate the search/desire for immortality as an expression of "fear of death" in the context of this v, not the deliverance of it. Deliver them by disabusing them of the notion forever, iow

Good points. No good ego. And you are probably right about to seek immortality is the same as to fear death...not the deliverance from it.
 
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