IS JESUS' SACRIFICE ETERNAL?

[Phoneman777]

Your reply is exactly what I'm talking about.

Not knowing physics, this becomes difficult to explain...but;
Since God is outside time,,,His sacrifice LIVES throughout all of time...
For US, He died that one time in Jerusalem 2,000 years ago...
But for God, who lives outside of time...His sacrifice goes down into all eternity as something true and happening right now.

NOT like He's being sacrificed again every day,,,but just as a reality.

For every new born-again believer, it's his accepting Jesus' sacrifice NOW, that saves him...For that person, Jesus died at that moment.

This is too metaphysical...too abstract.
Maybe we should let it go?

A diamond - a stupid crystalline rock - just sold for 71 Million. Humans are impressed with the value of things and "Eternal sacrifice" I think has to do with value not time...and eternity of ever increasing value. Lord, help me to remember that everyday.

 

[GodsGrace]

A diamond - a stupid crystalline rock - just sold for 71 Million. Humans are impressed with the value of things and "Eternal sacrifice" I think has to do with value not time...and eternity of ever increasing value. Lord, help me to remember that everyday.

Agreed. A diamond has no intrinsic value, but only the value placed on it by man.
It's too bad we, as a human race, don't put more value on knowing the God that made us. Jesus said the gate is narrow leading to salvation...

 

[michaelvpardo]

i plainly labelled that a perspective, GG

eternal does not mean forever, except from a perspective
eons have endings, as do "eternities"

"eternal" is an English term iow, not a Scriptural term, the way we define it now

strictly an illusion based upon perception, as Einstein has proven.
Time is a completely subjective thing, limited to humans, who are after all deceived

Pretty sure that Albert Einstein proved that time is a spatial dimension, not an illusion. Have you read his book on the general and special theory of relativity?

 

[michaelvpardo]

ha, Jesus was not, He is the proxy. Iow you will not find "I was slain from the foundation of the world" anywhere. Jesus was "slain" when some Sanhedrin decided to try to kill Him, not realizing that He gave His life willingly
if i say that it is "right now," is that a part of time? what time is that? Is "right now" a time? Sort of yes, but maybe no, right

iow time can also be considered to be a construct, an artificial index that we measure a "day" by. See, we forget that when we were little kids hearing someone say "what time is it?" reminded us that they were insane, see

Jesus isn't a proxy for anyone. Scripture teaches that Jesus already existed before He was born. Even His name is found described in the Old testament prophets. When He was questioned about His origins, He answered plainly that "before Abraham was I am". He wasn't being cryptic, He was being factual.

 

[michaelvpardo]

I'm not sure what I'm addressing Oz!
This is a new thought to me and I haven't thought of it enough.

I did want to get other person's thoughts on it.
Haven't even answered them yet because I can't get my thoughts together, but it's something that seemed interesting to me.

We say that even the O.T. persons were saved by faith but by the sacrifice of Jesus which had not even happened yet.

So are FUTURE persons saved because in the PAST Jesus died on the cross...
or is His sacrifice ONGOING in some way.

If His sacrifice was valid for those in the pre-cross days...
What makes it be valid for the post-cross days...
Maybe it lives through time; maybe it's not a one time happening.
He died once and for all could just mean that nothing else is necessary anymore.

One poster thought I was referring to the catholic Mass...this is NOT what I'm referring to. Maybe it's just too difficult to talk about time and timelessness.

@Enoch111
@bbyrd009
@CoreIssue
@Episkopos
@brakelite

There is a sense in which Jesus' sacrifice is eternal, but I think the more significant point is that His sacrifice established a new and everlasting covenant. Salvation is a matter of entering into that covenant by faith. The new covenant is very much like a marriage covenant and is described in the NT epistles in exactly that way.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Your reply is exactly what I'm talking about.

Not knowing physics, this becomes difficult to explain...but;
Since God is outside time,,,His sacrifice LIVES throughout all of time...
For US, He died that one time in Jerusalem 2,000 years ago...
But for God, who lives outside of time...His sacrifice goes down into all eternity as something true and happening right now.

NOT like He's being sacrificed again every day,,,but just as a reality.

For every new born-again believer, it's his accepting Jesus' sacrifice NOW, that saves him...For that person, Jesus died at that moment.

This is too metaphysical...too abstract.
Maybe we should let it go?

Understanding the theoretical physics doesn't necessarily help, but Einstein's theory of relativity demonstrates mathematically that time can be treated as a spatial dimension, eg: length, height, width, time. If you take that as a given truth, then every moment in time coexists now, in the past, and in the future. They are all part of physical space as a continuum. In that sense, we all have existed from the beginning of creation and will exist until its end. That doesn't really clarify spiritual matters to me, but it does help me to understand that time is part of creation and since God exists outside creation (as well as inside) He sees it as a finished work, while we only experience the spatial continuum in 3 dimensions, but with an awareness of the passage of time, our built in sense of eternity.

 

[bbyrd009]

Pretty sure that Albert Einstein proved that time is a spatial dimension, not an illusion. Have you read his book on the general and special theory of relativity?

ya, and by illusion I really mean "perspective" I guess, time is a subjective perception iow. The illusion part would be when we believe that time is the same for everywhere, or I guess even everyone

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus isn't a proxy for anyone. Scripture teaches that Jesus already existed before He was born. Even His name is found described in the Old testament prophets. When He was questioned about His origins, He answered plainly that "before Abraham was I am". He wasn't being cryptic, He was being factual.

well, so you say, but I'll stand by the statements for now, and I don't think you will be able to Quote "Jesus" from the OT wadr, but I can Quote "no Son of Man may die for another's sins..." see.

Which I guess will come across as maybe trying to lead ppl away from Jesus...but it will be toward Christ ok, toward High Priest, etc, honest

 

[bbyrd009]

Understanding the theoretical physics doesn't necessarily help, but Einstein's theory of relativity demonstrates mathematically that time can be treated as a spatial dimension, eg: length, height, width, time. If you take that as a given truth, then every moment in time coexists now, in the past, and in the future. They are all part of physical space as a continuum. In that sense, we all have existed from the beginning of creation and will exist until its end. That doesn't really clarify spiritual matters to me, but it does help me to understand that time is part of creation and since God exists outside creation (as well as inside) He sees it as a finished work, while we only experience the spatial continuum in 3 dimensions, but with an awareness of the passage of time, our built in sense of eternity.

GG isn't around anymore I guess, fwiw

 

[Nancy]

GG isn't around anymore I guess, fwiw

Flew the coop, along with the others

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't think you will be able to Quote "Jesus" from the OT wadr,

not entirely true either I guess, The amazing name Joshua: meaning and etymology

 

[michaelvpardo]

ya, and by illusion I really mean "perspective" I guess, time is a subjective perception iow. The illusion part would be when we believe that time is the same for everywhere, or I guess even everyone

I think that some people object to your posts because your use of the English language is not fastidious. Illusion or illusory do not convey the same meaning as perspective. Relativity describes variations in perceived reality while illusion implies a lack of the same. Given that the Lord has said that we shall be held accountable for every word that comes out of our mouths (and presumably every word typed by our hands), wouldn't it be prudent to be as accurate in our communication as we are capable of?

 

[bbyrd009]

I think that some people object to your posts because your use of the English language is not fastidious. Illusion or illusory do not convey the same meaning as perspective. Relativity describes variations in perceived reality while illusion implies a lack of the same. Given that the Lord has said that we shall be held accountable for every word that comes out of our mouths (and presumably every word typed by our hands), wouldn't it be prudent to be as accurate in our communication as we are capable of?

well, thing is imo for most of us time really is an illusion, but I agree that that is inadequate without explanation, and "perception" is prolly a better lead-in there, ty. Unfort that suffers from some inadequacy too tho right, "time is a perception" is after all not very meaningful by itself either.

We are the time machines...not much better i guess huh. Prolly make more sense after watching the vid, which I don't really expect anyone to do

 

[CoreIssue]

Time constrained occurrence with eternal consequence.

 

[bbyrd009]

well, thing is imo for most of us time really is an illusion, but I agree that that is inadequate without explanation, and "perception" is prolly a better lead-in there, ty. Unfort that suffers from some inadequacy too tho right, "time is a perception" is after all not very meaningful by itself either.

We are the time machines...not much better i guess huh. Prolly make more sense after watching the vid, which I don't really expect anyone to do

 

[bbyrd009]

Illusion or illusory do not convey the same meaning as perspective. Relativity describes variations in perceived reality while illusion implies a lack of the same.

pretty sure I could quote Einstein saying "this perspective is (=) an illusion" though, fwiw. I could also bring some handy image or other that we call "optical illusion" here and ask you what your "perspective" on the image is, right--and your perspective would surely be "illusion" too?--so not disagreeing but this is what I was thinking at the time

 

[michaelvpardo]

well, so you say, but I'll stand by the statements for now, and I don't think you will be able to Quote "Jesus" from the OT wadr, but I can Quote "no Son of Man may die for another's sins..." see.

Which I guess will come across as maybe trying to lead ppl away from Jesus...but it will be toward Christ ok, toward High Priest, etc, honest

,

well, so you say, but I'll stand by the statements for now, and I don't think you will be able to Quote "Jesus" from the OT wadr, but I can Quote "no Son of Man may die for another's sins..." see.

Which I guess will come across as maybe trying to lead ppl away from Jesus...but it will be toward Christ ok, toward High Priest, etc, honest

well, thing is imo for most of us time really is an illusion, but I agree that that is inadequate without explanation, and "perception" is prolly a better lead-in there, ty. Unfort that suffers from some inadequacy too tho right, "time is a perception" is after all not very meaningful by itself either.

We are the time machines...not much better i guess. Prolly make more sense after watching the vid, which I don't really expect anyone to do

Again, time isn't an illusion, its physical space.

 

[michaelvpardo]

pretty sure I could quote Einstein saying "this perspective is (=) an illusion" though, fwiw

I don't think so. Einstein was a bit crazy, but not insane.

 

[bbyrd009]

Time constrained occurrence with eternal consequence.

Ha what does Eternal mean though

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't think so. Einstein was a bit crazy, but not insane.

Albert Einstein Quotes. The distinction between the past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion