Is knowing what death is a comfort?
- Thread starter Robert Gwin
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I think we may understand these differently Taken. The breath of life is God's like you said, God's holy spirit, when the body is activated by the breath of life in a breathing creature they make a living soul. At death, the breath of life is no longer active, (the spirit goes out Ps 146:4) so the individual becomes a dead soul.
Xpn Nephesh (neh'-fesh); Noun Feminine, Strong #: 5315
soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
living being
living being (with life in the blood)
Perhaps we are not far off in some things Robert. I don't believe anyone would disagree that a thousand years equates to TIME. I believe Scripture shows us that TIME is given for this earth age. When this age comes to an end when the last trump sounds, and the physical body of believers is resurrected to immortality and incorruptible, and time shall be no more, then we have entered into the timeless age of eternity on the new earth. Where there will be no more death because there will be no more mortals.
Your view of a thousand years, like millennialists is dependent upon another ONE thousand years of more time on this earth after the Lord returns the second time. Sadly, your millennial view is NOT supported from the Bible, because it is manmade.
Yes, sure do have a different understanding.
Body’s are Vessels, everything in the vessel is necessary for the vessel to function.
Body’s come out of the Earth, (Dry Land)
are nourished by elements in the earth...(water, plants, minerals, nutrients), requires air/ oxygen (which is encompassed above the earth)
Done deal...right? No.
The bodily Vessel requires A Source of Life Before it is Able to function.
While (forming) the body depends on the females Life (blood).
So when the babe is Severed from the females Life Source...
Done deal...right? No.
The soul is a Vessel the Lord has made and put into a body.
In the Vessel (soul) is Gods Life Source, Called Gods Breath.
The Vessel....Soul, belongs to God.
The Life IN the Vessel (Soul) Belongs to God.
A body, (form)...it’s life (blood) Shall, Must Die..God requires That.
Mans vessel (body) Shall Die.
Mans life...(blood) Shall Die.
Gods vessel (soul) (in a man)...
Will sin against God (not believe)
Might be forgiven.
Might not be forgiven.
Might be restored (made Good again, as it was WHEN God put it INTO a man.)
Might be Saved...(Effected by Gods forgiveness & restoration.)
Will be Judged on Judgement (not yet occurred)
Might be Judged to BE Destroyed.
Will Depart from A mortally Dead Vessel (Body)
Will rise up return to God in Heaven WITH God, IF Saved, wait for Judgement.
Will be sent down to Hell WITHOUT God, IF NOT Saved, Wait Judgement.
That is all about The Vessels (body and soul)...do not overlook
WHO the soul (vessel) belongs to
WHAT is the Life IN the soul (vessel) and WHO that Life (Breath) belongs to
Gods Breath...
Gods Life Never Dies.
A body’s (vessel) and life (blood) Dying...has Zero effect on Gods Made Soul (vessel) and Gods Life in a Soul (His Breath)
A man receives Gods Vessel and Gods Breath In That Vessel...Via the mans nose....and what? As soon as that born babe inhales oxygen and exhales ...
He exhales the Vessel & Life God blew into his nose?
No...and why not?
Because the soul vessel and Gods Life in the Vessel...is Gods and completely controlled by God.
Mortal men are simply informed by Gods Knowledge... What, When and Why...will become of that soul and Gods breath IN that soul.
And yes...we have a difference of Understanding...
Souls (Vessels) did not come out of the Earth.
Gods Breath Life (Breath) did not come out of the Earth.
There Are souls IN living body’s.
There Are souls Departed out of Mortally dead body’s.
There Are unSaved souls Departed out of Mortally dead body’s Separated from God, in Hell, Waiting WITHOUT God, for Judgement
There Are Saved souls Departed out of Mortally dead body’s With God, in Heaven, Waiting WITH God, for Judgement.
Curious...
You have given no comments regarding Scriptures that specifically reveal the soul departed out from Mortally dead body’s...
Gen 2:
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Jer 38:
[16] So Zedekiah the king sware secretly unto Jeremiah, saying, As the LORD liveth, that made us this soul, I will not put thee to death, neither will I give thee into the hand of these men that seek thy life.
Isa 57:
[16] For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.
Ezek 18:
[4] Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Gen 9:
[4] But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
[5] And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
Glory to God,
Taken
Taken, the body requires the breath of life, which comes from the spirit God breathed into our body. The spirit gives our body life, and as long as the body continues to live every breathing creature upon the earth is a living soul. The spirit given by God returns to God when our body BREATHES it's last. That's language explaining the spirit leaves our body of flesh at death. If the spirit in man is indwelt with the Holy Spirit through Christ, that spirit returns to God alive. Still possessing the BREATH of life through the life-giving Spirit, our spirit in heaven is then a spirit soul. Soul meaning still possessing life even though the body has died.
Jehovah's Witnesses understand death as not being alive, and that means exactly what it says: the condition of a dead person is totally opposite to the condition of a living person.
Jesus spoke of Jehovah as a real and living person. This contrasts Jehovah from other gods who are represented by idols made of earthly materials.
John 7:28 Then as he was teaching in the temple, Jesus called out: “You know me and you know where I am from. And I have not come of my own initiative, but the One who sent me is real, and you do not know him. 29 I know him, because I am a representative from him, and that One sent me.”
Jesus was telling some of the inhabitants of Jerusalem that his father was alive, and he was not just an imaginary character. The difference between the non-sentient gods and the living God is consciousness, which idols do not have (Matt. 16:16).
Psal. 115:4 Their idols are silver and gold,
The work of the hands of earthling man.
5 A mouth they have, but they cannot speak;
Eyes they have, but they cannot see;
6 Ears they have, but they cannot hear.
A nose they have, but they cannot smell.
7 Hands are theirs, but they cannot feel.
Feet are theirs, but they cannot walk;
They utter no sound with their throat.
8 Those making them will become just like them,
All those who are trusting in them.
It is the same difference that exists between a person who has died and another who is still alive.
Ecl. 9:4 There is hope for whoever is among the living, because a live dog is better off than a dead lion. 5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun. 7 Go, eat your food with rejoicing, and drink your wine with a cheerful heart, for already the true God has found pleasure in your works. 8 May your clothing always be white, and do not fail to put oil on your head. 9 Enjoy life with your beloved wife all the days of your futile life, which He has given you under the sun, all the days of your futility, for that is your lot in life and in your hard work at which you toil under the sun. 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.
It is easy to see that the Bible does not teach that the dead are still alive in another place.
Jesus spoke of Jehovah as a real and living person. This contrasts Jehovah from other gods who are represented by idols made of earthly materials.
John 7:28 Then as he was teaching in the temple, Jesus called out: “You know me and you know where I am from. And I have not come of my own initiative, but the One who sent me is real, and you do not know him. 29 I know him, because I am a representative from him, and that One sent me.”
Jesus was telling some of the inhabitants of Jerusalem that his father was alive, and he was not just an imaginary character. The difference between the non-sentient gods and the living God is consciousness, which idols do not have (Matt. 16:16).
Psal. 115:4 Their idols are silver and gold,
The work of the hands of earthling man.
5 A mouth they have, but they cannot speak;
Eyes they have, but they cannot see;
6 Ears they have, but they cannot hear.
A nose they have, but they cannot smell.
7 Hands are theirs, but they cannot feel.
Feet are theirs, but they cannot walk;
They utter no sound with their throat.
8 Those making them will become just like them,
All those who are trusting in them.
It is the same difference that exists between a person who has died and another who is still alive.
Ecl. 9:4 There is hope for whoever is among the living, because a live dog is better off than a dead lion. 5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun. 7 Go, eat your food with rejoicing, and drink your wine with a cheerful heart, for already the true God has found pleasure in your works. 8 May your clothing always be white, and do not fail to put oil on your head. 9 Enjoy life with your beloved wife all the days of your futile life, which He has given you under the sun, all the days of your futility, for that is your lot in life and in your hard work at which you toil under the sun. 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.
It is easy to see that the Bible does not teach that the dead are still alive in another place.
I beg to differ Elie! Christ is very clear that whosoever lives and believes in Him shall NEVER DIE! Martha thought her brother would not live again until the resurrection at the last day. Jesus explains why she is wrong by physically resurrecting her brother to life again. This was done to prove Christ has power over death, and those who physically die in Him, continue to live as spirit soul in heaven. Not only did Lazarus live again, Jesus also gives us assurance that all who live and believe in Him shall never die. The miracle of life after death of Lazarus was given to prove physical death of the faithful is not death for the spirit of man who possesses the life-giving Spirit of Christ.
John 11:23-26 (KJV) Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Thank you..agree and disagree with parts of your conclusion.
God is Spirit...however life in a soul and spirit...not the same.
Gods Breath in soul...Gods Life....can leave a soul (ie unsaved)
Gods Seed...and His Spirit in mans new heart....SEED can never leave...(Born Again) ... His Spirit of Truth can never Leave...adopted son of God, OSAS.
Mans 3 parts...body, soul, spirit....received at 3 separate times...
First body...then soul, then (for the Saved) spirit.
Body..a vessel...Life..Blood.. “For ALL”...Body and Life shall die.
Soul...a vessel...Life...Gods Breath.
Saved souls..continue with Gods Breath, in body or out of dead body, goes to heaven.
Unsaved souls...AS Yet continue with Gods Breath (until judgement)
Unsaved souls...and those bodies...No blood life, No Gods Life .. Both destroyed. ( after judgement...presently in hell)
(Souls of Believers saved after a bodily death...) (crucified with Jesus...the great basis of the new covenant.)
(No souls have yet had Gods life removed)...After Judgement.
Natural Spirit of man...a vessel...Heart. (Spirit is their truth in heart.)
Born Again spirit of a man.
Circumcised heart, new heart...vessel...receives Gods Seed...receives Gods Spirit of Truth...New born again spirit. (Called receiving the Holy Spirit.
(Effected after a bodily death of Believers).
Believers raised up in new body, with their own new spirit, After millennial reign.
Converted raised up in new body, with their own new spirit, Before tribulation.
Glory to God,
Taken
I'm glad we have some agreement. When God created mankind He made them of earth, with spirit (breath of life) and the two parts became a living soul.
First body, then spirit, and together living soul. This is true of every living creature upon the earth. Life to our body comes from our spirit or breath of life.
Spirit is defined from the Greek word πνεῦμα pneuma (pneûma) - a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:—ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind
Soul is defined from the Greek word ψυχή psyche (psychḗ) - breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.
To be a living soul, is to have the breath of life through our spirit. When the body of every living creature upon the earth dies, the spirit departs the body. If the spirit departs from the man indwelt with the Holy Spirit, their spirit after leaving the body in death continues to live as a spirit or living soul without a physical body in heaven. That's what Christ means when He says in the resurrection we shall be as the angels in heaven. Christ says we shall be as the angels of God in heaven (spiritually alive) because God is NOT the God of the dead, but of the living. Christ is not talking about the bodily resurrection when the last trump sounds, because the body resurrected then will be physical for the new earth, but immortal and incorruptible.
Matthew 22:30-32 (KJV) For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Yes, life of the flesh is in the blood. But without the breath of life, which is our spirit, the blood will not flow through our veins. This is why Christ says we must eat of the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood to have life in Him. To eat His flesh and drink His blood is to have eternal life. We are to be born again of His Spirit to have eternal life through Him. It is in this way that we eat of His flesh and drink of His blood, spiritually, through His Spirit in our spirit. And when we do our spirit will never die. Because His flesh and blood makes atonement for our souls (life). So when we die believing in Christ we continue to have eternal spiritual life as spirit soul in heaven.
Leviticus 17:11 (KJV) For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
John 6:53-54 (KJV) Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
bbyrd009
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ya, and it shows, with all due respect
i know this might sting, but i mean contrast that with life, more abundantly for just a moment, if you would
and you are hardly alone, im hearing this from…many quarters, lately
bbyrd009
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We believe humans were a physical creation of God in which He incorporated His qualities of Love, Wisdom, Justice, and power in Taken. We do different from the spirit beings in that we have fleshly bodies, whereas they do not.
Good morning Robert.
Agree.
From natural birth?
..His Love Yes
..His wisdom “in” No.
..His power “in” No.
..His word “in” No.
..His WORD available to HEAR...Yes
..Man who chooses to Hear the Word..begins receiving the gift of FAITH..
Wisdom IN, Power IN, Word IN....a man’s PRIZE (so to speak), the Blessing, the Gift....of Gods Word, Wisdom, Power “IN” them...
AFTER a man has been Baptized WITH the Holy Spirit.
(Not a gift given simply because a man experienced a natural birth and received a soul.)
Yes...We ARE different than spirit beings...
Spirits beings ARE Spirits (Have Gods word, Have great power from God, Have a body).
Earthlings ARE body’s (Have Gods word available to Learn, Have minimal power from God, Have a natural, wavering spirit ie Truth).
Glory to God,
Taken
David prayed Jehovah to save him out of death. He said:
Psal. 6:2 Show me favor, O Jehovah, for I am fading away.
Heal me, O Jehovah, for my bones have been disturbed.
3 Yes, my own soul has been very much disturbed;
And you, O Jehovah—how long?
4 Do return, O Jehovah, do rescue my soul;
Save me for the sake of your loving-kindness.
5 For in death there is no mention of you;
In Sheol who will laud you?
If David asks Jehovah to keep him alive to continue praising him (as in this song he dedicates to him), it is because he knew perfectly well that the dead CANNOT PRAISE God. It is evident that the servants of God before Christ did not believe in heaven where the souls of the good go to be with God and praise him...
Isaiah considered death to be exactly the same: no life.
(ASV) Is. 38:18 For Sheol cannot praise thee, death cannot celebrate thee: They that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
Psal. 6:2 Show me favor, O Jehovah, for I am fading away.
Heal me, O Jehovah, for my bones have been disturbed.
3 Yes, my own soul has been very much disturbed;
And you, O Jehovah—how long?
4 Do return, O Jehovah, do rescue my soul;
Save me for the sake of your loving-kindness.
5 For in death there is no mention of you;
In Sheol who will laud you?
If David asks Jehovah to keep him alive to continue praising him (as in this song he dedicates to him), it is because he knew perfectly well that the dead CANNOT PRAISE God. It is evident that the servants of God before Christ did not believe in heaven where the souls of the good go to be with God and praise him...
Isaiah considered death to be exactly the same: no life.
(ASV) Is. 38:18 For Sheol cannot praise thee, death cannot celebrate thee: They that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
The breath of life God breathes into "OUR" spirit. It was in the beginning when God created man, He gave life to our spirit through breathing His Holy Spirit into us. When man sinned against God, that very day the spirit in man became "dead in trespasses and sins" (became natural, of the earth, worldly, of the devil, separated from God). That's why man must be born again because our spirit with the Holy Spirit is eternal....will never die. Believers have no fear of death knowing death does not mean cessation of life but is a transition to heaven as a living (spirit) soul.
This is how Christ can assure us that whosoever lives and believes in Him "shall never die." Because death of our body for believers means that our spirit through His Spirit in us, leaves this world of time behind, and goes to the Kingdom of God in heaven where we wait as spirit souls for time or this age to come to an end. Then as complete once again with eternal spirit, and immortal & incorruptible we live forever with Christ on the new earth.
Glory to God Indeed!
David knew exactly how to pray that God would save him from physically dying. Because the dead body knows nothing, and cannot praise the Lord. Sheol is where dead bodies go when the spirit within man returns to God who gave it.
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