Is knowing what death is a comfort?

[Charlie24]

Strange, last time I checked Ez 18:4 was part of the Bible sir.

The first rule of interpreting Scripture that was taught to me, was to read the surroundings context.

I don't think the JW's have taken that rule to heart, not sure they are even aware of it.

Like so many other groups, they just pick out something they can fit in their narrative, and there you go.

If you dare to use this rule with Ezek. 18:4, you can see that the Lord is speaking of the proverb of the father and the son.

It concerns Israel's charge against God in the sons paying for the sins of their fathers.

When in reality the Lord is declaring they are paying for their own sins.

"the soul that sins, it shall die" is the proof of being charged with your own sins.

You do realize, Robert, that "the soul that dies" is referring to the "second death" which is spiritual death, not soul sleep, but separation from God for eternity.

 

[amigo de christo]

Moses is dead in the grave awaiting resurrection. He will not be among those going to heaven Charlie, as he was not born again. He will be among those resurrected on the earth during the millennial reign of Christ.

Moses appeared on the mount where JESUS was . He and i think elijah .
Let the KING JESUS be praised and thanked .

 

[amigo de christo]

The first rule of interpreting Scripture that was taught to me, was to read the surroundings context.

I don't think the JW's have taken that rule to heart, not sure they are even aware of it.

Like so many other groups, they just pick out something they can fit in their narrative, and there you go.

If you dare to use this rule with Ezek. 18:4, you can see that the Lord is speaking of the proverb of the father and the son.

It concerns Israel's charge against God in the sons paying for the sins of their fathers.

When in reality the Lord is declaring they are paying for their own sins.

"the soul that sins, it shall die" is the proof of being charged with your own sins.

You do realize, Robert, that "the soul that dies" is referring to the "second death" which is spiritual death, not soul sleep, but separation from God for eternity.

Cling to CHRIST for IN HIM We have a good fat nice and wonderful end . The flesh suit dies , but not the soul .
Those in CHRIST shall live FOREVER and ever in a new and wonderful place prepared of GOD . Praise to the glorious King .
Praise GOD the Father of our LORD and savoir JESUS CHRIST . PRAISE GOD for The mercy of His grace
given us in JESUS CHRIST . Sing to the glorious LORD . MY HOPE IS IN CHRIST and my soul has great peace
IN all His promises . HE will be with us no matter what we endure . HE is our hope and our salvation
and at our end of this vapor life , which is but a vapor , ITS HOME WITH THE KING . What a wonderful hope the lambs do have in JESUS CHRIST . THE KING of kings and the LORD of lords . Now lift those hands up charlie , and let the glorious LORD be praised .
To be absent from the body means PRESENT WITH THE LORD . JESUS has conquered all , HE who had the power of death
Has JESUS overcome . SO that all who do believe in HE , JESUS , whom GOD did send shall not die but have eternal life .
NOW that is all reason to praise HIM morning , noon and night .

 

[amigo de christo]

The first rule of interpreting Scripture that was taught to me, was to read the surroundings context.

I don't think the JW's have taken that rule to heart, not sure they are even aware of it.

Like so many other groups, they just pick out something they can fit in their narrative, and there you go.

If you dare to use this rule with Ezek. 18:4, you can see that the Lord is speaking of the proverb of the father and the son.

It concerns Israel's charge against God in the sons paying for the sins of their fathers.

When in reality the Lord is declaring they are paying for their own sins.

"the soul that sins, it shall die" is the proof of being charged with your own sins.

You do realize, Robert, that "the soul that dies" is referring to the "second death" which is spiritual death, not soul sleep, but separation from God for eternity.

me thinks we need to revisit mathew chapter twenty six or twenty seven .
JESUS , after rising FIRST , ressurected all saints that slept . Some of them were even spotted in the city .
What a sight that must have been . NOW all that die IN CHRIST shall never taste of death
We present with the KING when this ol flesh suit draws its last breath , OR WHEN HE COMETH , whichever comes first .
And by the signs of the times , EITHER WAY we aint got much time left in this ol world . SO endure
in the LORD having all hope and affections above on HIM no matter what cometh against us in this life . FOR THE LORD
shall be with the LAMBS . AND LO I AM WITH YOU EVEN UNTO THE END . SING TO THE KING . HE IS OUR HOPE
the redeemer of our soul . Let all that draws breath praise and thank the LORD for this wonderful gift given us in CHRIST JESUS .
ITS LORD PRAISING TIME IN THE BUILDING . HOPE abounds WHEN IT IS IN THE LORD but hope in this world
leads only to death . HOPE IN GOD and IN HIS CHRIST . Paul and silas SANG and they sang IN PRISON .
YEAH . THE LORD IS with us no matter what comes against us and REMEMBER the great hope we have
at the end of our faith . FOREVER WITH THE KING . That makes my soul fat and happy just to think on it .

 

[Hippie]

When we die our bodies get are put into the ground. Our physical bodies were made from the dust when we die our physical bodies return to the ground. Our souls live on forever. The book of Revelations explains it in Chapter 20. When we die the soul remains in the ground with the physical body. The first souls that will rise are the ones that were beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. And the ones that didn't worship the beast and didn't receive the mark. They come to life and remain with Jesus for a thousand years. The rest did not come alive for a thousand years. That's the first resurrection. Then the beast is released from prison. He will try to deceive everyone left in the world for a thousand years. Then he will be thrown into the lake of fire forever. The rest of the dead will then go before the throne and the book of life and a second book. All the dead will be judged on how they lived their lives. and if their name was recorded in the book of life. If not they are thrown into the lake of fire forever. So when we die we feel nothing. I don't believe we feel anything till the day of judgement. The pain and suffering agony is what you will feel forever. Another thing to think about is with God a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day. Those thousand years may not be a thousand years. That is another reason why we need to be faithful trust and love God. There's no telling when those days will be.

 

[Robert Gwin]

It’s good to know not everyone had to believe other people in what they believe to be made right with God, right @Robert Gwin? It’s believing in the death, burial, and Resurrection that makes a person right with God, praise Him amen!

Bye brother you take care (gonna dip out of this thread sir). Love you either way it is you believe glad you can freely share what you believe.

Even the demons believe and shudder Matt, all Christians believe Jesus died, was buried in a tomb, and that God resurrected him on the third day, but that is far from guaranteeing our salvation. Best examine it further.

 

[Robert Gwin]

OH, I forgot! Heaven is reserved for only the JW's. What a special group you're a member of, Robert.

You cannot seriously believe that Jehovah would select individuals to serve as Kings and Priests in His Kingdom who served other gods do you? What could possess you to believe that sir? Do you have any scriptural evidence to support that view?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Did the Jehovah witness teach you this?

I don’t disagree with him coming to preach the kingdom.

When you go door to door, do you feel pride because you are doing something for the kingdom my friend? Does God favor your group of people more than others?

I’m not judging your salvation, but don’t you learn everything you have learned through communion with the Jehovah witness programs?

Www.jw.org is that the website you use to to learn subjects on the Bible?

It’s easy to quote scripture from the Bible and easily misinterpret what is truly there, Sir.

I have been instructed at Jehovah's house Isa 2:2,3 or not. What I state is true or false. I state openly that God has always had but one people, one faith and that is no different today. What evidence do you have that might refute that Matt? I will say I hope you are correct, but what you are saying is not a Bible teaching sir.

 

[Robert Gwin]

The first rule of interpreting Scripture that was taught to me, was to read the surroundings context.

I don't think the JW's have taken that rule to heart, not sure they are even aware of it.

Like so many other groups, they just pick out something they can fit in their narrative, and there you go.

If you dare to use this rule with Ezek. 18:4, you can see that the Lord is speaking of the proverb of the father and the son.

It concerns Israel's charge against God in the sons paying for the sins of their fathers.

When in reality the Lord is declaring they are paying for their own sins.

"the soul that sins, it shall die" is the proof of being charged with your own sins.

You do realize, Robert, that "the soul that dies" is referring to the "second death" which is spiritual death, not soul sleep, but separation from God for eternity.

The second death is not just spiritual death Charlie, it is total destruction permanently. It has been appointed for a man to die once, but then a judgment. If the judgment is the second death, that is it sir. We not only use the surrounding passages for context, we make sure what we teach is in harmony with the whole Bible sir, and you are welcome to provide an example if you believe otherwise. Jesus did make a comment that would fit with your explanation however and it is recorded for us at: (Matthew 10:28) . . .And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·henʹna.

The lake of fire is the symbolic representation of Gehenna sir.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Moses appeared on the mount where JESUS was . He and i think elijah .
Let the KING JESUS be praised and thanked .

It was Moses and Elijah, you remembered correctly Amigo, however it was a vision, not literal. It was given to his apostles in fulfillment of this passage: (Matthew 16:28-17:5) . . .Truly I say to you that there are some of those standing here who will not taste death at all until first they see the Son of man coming in his Kingdom.” 17 Six days later Jesus took Peter and James and his brother John along and led them up into a lofty mountain by themselves. 2 And he was transfigured before them; his face shone as the sun, and his outer garments became brilliant as the light. 3 And look! there appeared to them Moses and E·liʹjah conversing with him. 4 Then Peter said to Jesus: “Lord, it is fine for us to be here. If you wish, I will erect three tents here, one for you, one for Moses, and one for E·liʹjah.” 5 While he was still speaking, look! a bright cloud overshadowed them, and look! a voice out of the cloud . . .

This was one of the rare times that humans had the privilege of hearing God's own voice speak. This was needed to strengthen the Apostles to carry out their assignment as Jesus was soon to be no longer with them.

 

[amigo de christo]

It was Moses and Elijah, you remembered correctly Amigo, however it was a vision, not literal. It was given to his apostles in fulfillment of this passage: (Matthew 16:28-17:5) . . .Truly I say to you that there are some of those standing here who will not taste death at all until first they see the Son of man coming in his Kingdom.” 17 Six days later Jesus took Peter and James and his brother John along and led them up into a lofty mountain by themselves. 2 And he was transfigured before them; his face shone as the sun, and his outer garments became brilliant as the light. 3 And look! there appeared to them Moses and E·liʹjah conversing with him. 4 Then Peter said to Jesus: “Lord, it is fine for us to be here. If you wish, I will erect three tents here, one for you, one for Moses, and one for E·liʹjah.” 5 While he was still speaking, look! a bright cloud overshadowed them, and look! a voice out of the cloud . . .

This was one of the rare times that humans had the privilege of hearing God's own voice speak. This was needed to strengthen the Apostles to carry out their assignment as Jesus was soon to be no longer with them.

Jesus was talking to them . IT was quite LITERAL my friend . Be encouraged but its time to flee the JW camp .
Never look back either . We must trod onwards in CHRIST JESUS .

 

[Davy]

We mourn when a loved one dies, even Jesus gave way to tears, even though he knew he was going to bring his friend Lazarus back from death. Jesus in speaking about his death compared it to sleep with his apostles. A person who is in a deep sleep is not conscious of their surroundings, and those who have died are not conscious either, they do not feel pain, they do not feel lonely, and cannot interact with anything. Time comes to a standstill with them. Ecc 9:5 says of the dead: The dead know not any thing KJV.

Pushing the Jew's old 'dead in the ground' doctrine again I see.

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV


1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
KJV


1 Peter 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

6 For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
KJV

Dead people aren't literally sleeping in a casket out in the back yard somewhere! That idea is an old Jewish doctrine of men. Even Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 in The Old Testament revealed that at death of our flesh that our flesh goes back to the earthy elements where it came from, but our spirit goes back to God Who gave it. And Lord Jesus showed our 'soul' continues on to the heavenly, which has to include our spirit too, and Peter showed we have conscious awareness in the heavenly after we die, otherwise, how did the 'dead' hear The Gospel when Jesus went to the "spirits in prison" and preached to them?

What we have on this forum are MAJOR ATTACKS UPON BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY handed down from the actual early Christian Church. The charlatans that come here and REJECT The Bible Scripture reveal they are working for the devil, and do not belong to Christ Jesus, so beware brethren!

One of the 45 Soviet strategic points for taking over the West:

"27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."

The idea of replacing "revealed religiion with 'social' religion" means REJECTING the actual Bible as written, and replacing it with man's feel-good philosophies.

 

[amigo de christo]

Rather , KNOW the glorious LORD JESUS CHRIST who has conquered death and he who had the power over death .
And then you shall have great comfort . Knowing that HE who comes to Christ , believing on HIM
shall never die but has eternal life . Yea i say TAKE YE COMFORT IN HIM . Christ the King . Praise be to the glorious Lord .

 

[amigo de christo]

Is knowing death a comfort . No . But KNOWING HE who conquered death and the devil who had power over it ,
SURE IS A GREAT COMFORT .
HE Is the bread of life . Come and eat of HIM . IF a man eats of Christ HE shall never taste of death .
The LORD is our hope and our salvation . Though the body dies , those in Christ shall live forever with the LORD GOD ALL MIGHTY .
Take comfort in THAT . Rest in the beauty of Christ and hold dear to His promises and all things HE did teach .
Let us learn our bibles well .

 

[Robert Gwin]

Jesus was talking to them . IT was quite LITERAL my friend . Be encouraged but its time to flee the JW camp .
Never look back either . We must trod onwards in CHRIST JESUS .

I would be glad to Amigo, just as soon as you take the Bible and identify the faith. Anxiously waiting sir.

This is but one example, you state Moses and Elijah was in heaven already, thus nullifying the need for Jesus' death to release them from the bondage of sin. Makes no sense to me, especially when the Bible gave the explanation in the very next verse, they saw the fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy 6 days later. That fulfilled what he told them, but in fact did not happen, as it was still over a millennium away. When Jesus' took the crown at the appointed time, no one, not even Christians observed this with their physical eyes. In fact that is why Jesus gave them signs recorded for his disciples to observe that the event had actually taken place. Most faiths that claim to be Christian do believe that we are very near to Jesus' return, therefore they understand we are in the last days that follow that presence Jesus referred to in Mat 24:3

 

[-Phil]

We mourn when a loved one dies, even Jesus gave way to tears, even though he knew he was going to bring his friend Lazarus back from death. Jesus in speaking about his death compared it to sleep with his apostles. A person who is in a deep sleep is not conscious of their surroundings, and those who have died are not conscious either, they do not feel pain, they do not feel lonely, and cannot interact with anything. Time comes to a standstill with them. Ecc 9:5 says of the dead: The dead know not any thing KJV.

In so called ‘deep sleep’, which is never actually experienced, consciousness isn’t conscious of a person sleeping, which is not conscious.
This is a hindsight projection upon sleep of the belief people are conscious.

The truth sets us free Jesus said, so how do we benefit from knowing the condition of the dead?

Liberation from death and the materialist’s paradigm.
However, The Truth is neither a benefit to anyone, nor a condition known about ‘the dead’.
It’s that there isn’t death, which is in accordance with ‘one’s own’ direct experience, right now.

Some cultures try to appease the dead thinking they can harm us, but we Christians are set free from that. Some religions teach that they are kept alive and might be undergoing torture, but again they simply are dead, not conscious of anything. Some believe you can communicate with the dead, but in reality if we successfully conjure up the dead, it is not those dead loved ones, rather demons, and Jehovah warns us about that Deut 18:10-12.

‘Demons’ are directly experienced to the exact same extent ‘deep sleep’ is.

What is a real comfort to us that perhaps realize our time is close is that Romans 6:7 brings out that when we die we are acquitted of sin, and John 5:28, 29 points out that everyone who is in God's memory, and that includes all who have not sinned against the holy spirit, (another topic, but very few have this judgment) will be brought back to life in the resurrection. Another great point, even if a thousand years pass, to that individual it will be instantaneous, as they are no longer conscious of time either, just like waking up in the morning, only to a wonderful new world. Isn't this good news really a comfort?

Even better news… consciousness is no longer conscious of the thought, ‘individual’.
But of course, this is presently the case as well.

 

[amigo de christo]

I would be glad to Amigo, just as soon as you take the Bible and identify the faith. Anxiously waiting sir.

This is but one example, you state Moses and Elijah was in heaven already, thus nullifying the need for Jesus' death to release them from the bondage of sin. Makes no sense to me, especially when the Bible gave the explanation in the very next verse, they saw the fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy 6 days later. That fulfilled what he told them, but in fact did not happen, as it was still over a millennium away. When Jesus' took the crown at the appointed time, no one, not even Christians observed this with their physical eyes. In fact that is why Jesus gave them signs recorded for his disciples to observe that the event had actually taken place. Most faiths that claim to be Christian do believe that we are very near to Jesus' return, therefore they understand we are in the last days that follow that presence Jesus referred to in Mat 24:3

Wrong my friend . I never said MOSES and ELIJAH were ALREADY in heaven . I simply said THEY were present
on that mountain . it was literal . But i sure never said they were already in heaven . Never said that nor even implied it .
Folks didnt get ressurected TILL AFTER JESUS rose from the grave .
But even samuel was at some place and was aroused out of it by a sooth sayer and YEAH he rebuked over that one .
I never once said nor implied they were already in heaven at that time . I only said THEY were thereand it was a literal eveent

 

[Robert Gwin]

Pushing the Jew's old 'dead in the ground' doctrine again I see.

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV


1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
KJV


1 Peter 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

6 For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
KJV

Dead people aren't literally sleeping in a casket out in the back yard somewhere! That idea is an old Jewish doctrine of men. Even Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 in The Old Testament revealed that at death of our flesh that our flesh goes back to the earthy elements where it came from, but our spirit goes back to God Who gave it. And Lord Jesus showed our 'soul' continues on to the heavenly, which has to include our spirit too, and Peter showed we have conscious awareness in the heavenly after we die, otherwise, how did the 'dead' hear The Gospel when Jesus went to the "spirits in prison" and preached to them?

What we have on this forum are MAJOR ATTACKS UPON BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY handed down from the actual early Christian Church. The charlatans that come here and REJECT The Bible Scripture reveal they are working for the devil, and do not belong to Christ Jesus, so beware brethren!

One of the 45 Soviet strategic points for taking over the West:

"27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."

The idea of replacing "revealed religiion with 'social' religion" means REJECTING the actual Bible as written, and replacing it with man's feel-good philosophies.

Wish there was a category to click on that I read this, at any rate I read it Davy.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Ecc 9:5 says of the dead: The dead know not any thing

You asked if it helps to know about death. To me yes. But just because I say it helps to know about death that doesn’t mean I will ever know for sure. Your question of does it help to know about death is where a lot of my depression comes from…doubt. Doubt because of all the gloom of seeing how quick this life goes and then struggling with what happens here, what happens there? Where all hopes in this which fades so quickly with the fear there is nothing else makes me sad. To me that is why Jesus wept…not because Lazarus slept because He knew Lazarus would be raised again. To me Jesus wept not for Lazarus being dead …but for the pain of those loved ones of Lazarus grieved by the death of Lazarus.
I quoted this from your post.
Somewhere the word says: to be dead is to be face to face with the Lord. So to me
Ecc 9:5 says of the dead: The dead know not any thing.
Could it be “the dead know not any thing” be closer in reference to 1 Corinthians 8:2-3 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. [3] But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

We say “the dead know not any thing” is referring to laying in the casket …
But what if it is more “liken yourselves dead to sin and Alive unto God.”?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Concerning the death of Lazarus; John 11:33 When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled,

Luke 23:27-28 And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him. [28] But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.

Luke 23:29-32 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck. [30] Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us. [31] For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry? [32] And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death.


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