I sent you a PM. If you want to talk about that with me. I decided it is best for me to leave this thread. There is something about it that really bothers me!
Is Obedience a Condition of Salvation?
- Thread starter Hobie
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
- Status
I sent you a PM. If you want to talk about that with me. I decided it is best for me to leave this thread. There is something about it that really bothers me!
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
That was in response to one of the people on here that says obedience is not a condition of salvation. Just belief in the obedience of Christ. He repeats it so often I doubt he's read the rest of the Bible. So he know's Christ as well as Hitler does.Hitler was a Catholic in the same sense that I'm a Filipino. I've eaten a little bit of Pancit in my time - lol.
Keep in mind I haven't bothered to read the context of this exchange. I'm just mysteriously attracted to claims that Hitler was a Christian—which I'm sure was not your point at all, Sis.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Only those who are obeying his commandments are abiding in Him, and He in them. And only those who are born again of the Spirit belong to Christ. So @brightfame52 you can't base your whole eternity on not understanding the rest of the Bible. We are so close to His coming you can't just debate one verse. It is time to become holy for without holiness no man shall see God. Hebrews 12:14. Stop messing around and everyone do what they can to be mindful of becoming perfect.
I had to choose today whether I was going to be hurt and angry with someone I've known all my life who betrayed me this week like I've done all my life in cases like this, or stop and say, No, Jesus is coming I HAVE TO FORGIVE HER and not let her see that she even hurt me. We have to LOVE, LOVE, LOVE.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
I'm glad it came up again. Look at the world. The Great Trib. is either here or about to be. It is about time those with the heresy that obediece is "works" and go along in wickedness will hear "I never knew you." Matthew 7:21-23
This is a verse for the world, and especially our country:
People are so screwed up they don't even know what gender they are.
Isaiah 5:20
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Those for whom Christ obeyed for, and made righteous by His one obedience as Per Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
They are the ones who keep the commandments of God, by Christs One obedience,
The word for righteous in Rom 5:19 is the greek word δίκαιος:
righteous, observing divine laws
- in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping the commands of God
- innocent, faultless, guiltless
- used of him whose way of thinking, feeling, and acting is wholly conformed to the will of God, and who therefore needs no rectification in the heart or life
So Rom 5:19 teaches that Christs One Obedience effects the full salvation of the many, without their obedience, because its effected by the Obedience of Just One, Jesus Christ,
If you dont believe this, you are in unbelief !
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Figurative commandment-keeping is mysticism/spiritualism.
He died the 2nd death that we might escape it; He obeyed that we might obey, the straw man of legalism notwithstanding.
I must be missing something, but I would think obedience is a necessary follow. We receive Jesus, and we become a new creature. We want to do His Will out of love for Him. It's Him in us-we will never be able to love, not truly, we will never be able to keep what He has commanded us to keep, unless He lives within us. If we could do it on our own, there would be no need to send the Holy Spirit, to comfort, guide and correct.
I have been trying to get away from this thread. In fact I regret even making a comment in it! I think the big problem is, this is a sort of a mystery to Christians. It isn't like we aren't reading our Bibles and trying to follow God's word. It's just that we are never perfect all the time.
One of the things that have been frustrating me, is how when a person comes to Christ, all they can do is just believe and receive. They might start with a prayer, asking for forgiveness, inviting Jesus into their hearts. But my point is, it all starts out simple. Just one simple first step of receiving the gift of salvation. Then after that they begin to read the bible, and listen to bible teachers, and listen to Christian music. Go to Church, and all that gets mixed together into their brains. Soon it isn't just believe in Jesus anymore, it's believe in Jesus + fill in the blank. The impression I get from this thread is, and I could be wrong. It's believe in Jesus and then obey. Then somehow those two things together saves you. Obedience is important for sure! King David was consider a man after God's own heart, and yet He wasn't obedient all the time. He sinned and He had to deal with the consequences of his sinful actions. But because He was close to God and wanted to do right by God, He always returned to God. I think if we base our salvation on a concept of Jesus plus anything then our relationship with Jesus turns into a works based salvation. Somehow things need to be kept in the proper order.
Yes!! The thing is is that if we have really really received Christ, then that will manifest itself in our lives. And the more we are studying and learning of Him, the more manifest it will be. It doesn't mean we won't sin, because
we are not perfect. I sin, and I try not to, but if we do sin, we have an Advocate. 1 John 2:1.
If we fall and are repentant, and ask for forgiveness. We will be forgiven.
we are not perfect. I sin, and I try not to, but if we do sin, we have an Advocate. 1 John 2:1.
If we fall and are repentant, and ask for forgiveness. We will be forgiven.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
FINALLY! Yes, keeping the commandments is obedience and IS a condition of our salvation. But it is not in opposition to our sin nature like the OT Jews had to do. This is why Jesus came. Jesus cleansed our sin nature so we no longer have anything in opposition to His laws. And He gives up His own Spirit to keep them as naturally as breathing. We can also partake of the divine nature of God because He dwells inside us. 2 Peter 1:4 Memorize what I just said., because that is the whole of the gospel. Also add Romans 6:6-7 to Romans 5:19 as your favorite verses. This is also why we are no longer SINNERS. We are CHILDREN OF GOD. 1 John 3:1
Now all of that is what you need to get into your posts to affect anyone positively. Before you just had to know who Christ was but do what you like, like Hitler. Good to know you aren't like him.
Last edited:
See you exalting your obedience and righteousness over the Lord Jesus Christ, that's evil. Christ rendered obedience to God for many, on their behalf, even unto death, and God imputes it to them for righteousness. But you dont believe that, and rely on your actions of obedience for acceptance with God.
You have it wrong still, even after I have explained it to you.FINALLY! Yes, keeping the commandments is obedience and IS a condition of our salvation. But it is not in opposition to our sin nature like the OT Jews had to do. This is why Jesus came. Jesus cleansed our sin nature so we no longer have anything in opposition to His laws. And He gives up His own Spirit to keep them as naturally as breathing. We can also partake of the divine nature of God because He dwells inside us. 2 Peter 1:4 Memorize what I just said., because that is the whole of the gospel. Also add Romans 6:6-7 to Romans 5:19 as your favorite verses. This is also why we are no longer SINNERS. We are CHILDREN OF GOD. 1 John 3:1
Now all of that is what you need to get into your posts to affect anyone positively. Before you just had to know who Christ was but do what you like, like Hitler. Good to know you aren't like him.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
What would really be evil would be something like accusing someone of exalting themselves above Christ when they clearly and grammatically did no such thing but, then, I guess if we're happy with figurative, phony, mystical righteousness, then that's no problem at all.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
What do I have wrong about your relationship with sin. That's all I want to know.
Do you still have a sin nature?
If you do, how do you stop it affecting your decisions to not sin when it wants to?
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
This will seem crazy, but I'm just responding to ideas—not really rebutting you, personally, at all.
How much sin do we really think David believed was okay?
This is where I hit the wall on this thing. Everything is backwards to me.
Everyone is happy to say we're only human.
Adam and Eve were human before they sinned, too.
How much sin was okay for them before they sinned?
We'll be human in eternal Glory. How many sins will be okay then?
Are these bad questions to ask?
Has anyone reading this ever asked God how much sin is okay while they prayed?
We talk about this stuff with each other.
But I wouldn't dare ask God how much sin is okay.
I have no problem asking Him to forgive the sin I've already committed.
I'm pretty much just thinking out loud here.
I don't know if that's good or not.
What's really weird is that I learned to think this way from people who would be very uncomfortable with these questions.
I was taught as a child that sin was absolutely inexcusable.
And that Jesus paid it all.
We're okay with these ideas until they crawl into a single paragraph or sentence together.
Why is that?
What does "condition of salvation" even mean?
Why do we adopt all of these terms that appear nowhere in the Bible?
(I think I know why.)
It may be done unintendedly, yet its still being done. You calling Christs Suretyship Righteousness names and scoffing at it is evil ! Christ is His Peoples Righteousness 1 Cor 1:30
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
You would rather glory in your own righteousness, obedience !
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Do NOT treat me disrespectfully. I don't care if you ARE two years old, you need to learn respect!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Abraham had no desire to sin either. But he did. David had no desire to sin, he did also. Even Peter. The rock, had no desire to sin, yet he did.
if you say you have no sin you decieve yourself and there is no truth in you
I look to Gods grace. That is what gives us power over sin..
Not trying to not sin and obey in order to be saved. All that does is make you decieve yourself. Because you have to think you are better than you are.. or you to would know you were condemned where you stand
- Status
Similar threads
