Is Reincarnation baloney?

[QuantumBit]

"And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment," Hebrews 9:27

OK, and?

Once someone dies, they will be judged. That is what the verse teaches.

ONE LIFE, ONE DEATH AND THEN THE JUDGMENT.

I sincerely hope that you are not teaching that humans die only one time. That would be in severe contradiction to the rest of the Bible.

And what do you mean by 'one life'? Becoming Born Again is quite literal. Nothing in the Bible teaches we only have one life.

Anyhow, nothing you posted debunks reincarnation.

 

[QuantumBit]

Look at the comments so far.

All anyone is doing is claiming 'it is a false teaching', or 'it is Paganism', etc. etc.

There is not a single verse to back any of that up. No proof whatsoever. Just typical false Church dogma parroted by those that have never even bothered to do their homework.

 

[QuantumBit]

So, why was the other thread locked? Was it by request of the OP, or is there an agenda here?

Most of you should know by now how damaging censorship is. Look at all of the threads on this forum promoting alchemy and all kinds of other things Christians would consider blasphemous, yet they are allowed to continue.

Truth is often not allowed nowadays. What does that say about this topic if it is banned? It sounds like reincarnation may be precisely over the target of what the Bible actually teaches, yet there is a Spirit that will not allow it.

 

[Wrangler]

"And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment," Hebrews 9:27

ONE LIFE, ONE DEATH AND THEN THE JUDGMENT.

OK, and?

Once someone dies, they will be judged. That is what the verse teaches.

Welcome to the foums @QuantumBit. I'm interested in your avator and username. Very intringing. Could you explain it and your background?

Yes, the verse teaches once someone dies, they will be judged. Other verses make it plain that the judgment has eternal consequences, which necessarily rules out reincarnation. Still other verses make it plain that we are to be resurrected into a glorified body, which will not die. Again, this necessarily rules out reincarnation.

Don't get me wrong. I love the idea of reincarnation. However, it cannot be supported from Scripture. Using Scripture as one's guide, this Eastern religious tenet has to be rejected.

I sincerely hope that you are not teaching that humans die only one time. That would be in severe contradiction to the rest of the Bible.

How so? (That is, what verses contradiction humans die only one time?)

Becoming Born Again is quite literal. Nothing in the Bible teaches we only have one life.

Anyhow, nothing you posted debunks reincarnation.

No. "Born again" is a metaphor. This is why Jesus parses flesh with spirit. Like being born into flesh, we must be born also into spirit, aka "born again." Everything in the Bible teaches we only have one life.

You don't know this but I often clash with @Ronald David Bruno. In this case, his verses and interpretation is spot on. And something else. Few make totally comprehensive posts. So, while @Ronald David Bruno posts were spot on, your questions "OK, and" are a unnecessarily sassy, I hope you don't mind me saying so.

Feel free to formulate another specific question. I'm sure many here would be happy to answer specific questions. But "OK, and?" does not help the conversation go in a positive direction.

Hope this helps!

Yours in Christ,

W

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

OK, and?

Once someone dies, they will be judged. That is what the verse teaches.



I sincerely hope that you are not teaching that humans die only one time. That would be in severe contradiction to the rest of the Bible.

And what do you mean by 'one life'? Becoming Born Again is quite literal. Nothing in the Bible teaches we only have one life.

Anyhow, nothing you posted debunks reincarnation.

Jesus took upon Himself the Judgment for our sins. Death is two-fold, physical, that we all suffer and spiritual. Those in Christ go to be with Jesus after physical death, not into another womb. Those who did not believe, go to Hades and ultimately the Lake of Fire, not into another womb.
You are quite confused as to the meaning of death and life in Christ. One's destiny is FIXED AT DEATH. YOU GO TO HEAVEN OR HADES. This is fundament Christianity 101. You have little understanding of what salvation means. We are being saved from death. One shot is all we get!

 

[QuantumBit]

Welcome to the foums @QuantumBit. I'm interested in your avator and username. Very intringing. Could you explain it and your background?

Hi Wrangler. Thanks for the welcome. I am a Mechanical Engineer. Quantum Computing is an interesting subject to me.

Other verses make it plain that the judgment has eternal consequences, which necessarily rules out reincarnation.

I do not agree with the last part.

Still other verses make it plain that we are to be resurrected into a glorified body, which will not die.

I disagree again. Angels can leave their first estate and go back to a corrupted body. Free will is always there. Those in the New Heavens and New Earth are free to come back here if they so choose.

...this Eastern religious tenet has to be rejected.

Whatever other religions teach is irrelevant.

How so? (That is, what verses contradiction humans die only one time?)

• There are verses about the Second Death in Revelation. Die once and die twice is a contradiction.
• There are those who died and were brought back to life, only to die again later.
• I believe in the Rapture where those that are alive remain alive and never experience death.
• There are those that never died.
• Etc., Etc.

No. "Born again" is a metaphor.

Ouch. I totally disagree. Receiving a new body involves real and major physical changes.

But "OK, and?" does not help the conversation go in a positive direction.

I disagree. Posting random verses without giving an interpretation and explaining what they mean or why they were posted will receive and "OK and?" from me. I am not a mind reader.

 

[QuantumBit]

Jesus took upon Himself the Judgment for our sins.

Obviously. What is your point?

Death is two-fold, physical, that we all suffer and spiritual.

There is nothing in the Bible that teaches that the Spirit dies.

Those in Christ go to be with Jesus after physical death, not into another womb.

Of course. Have I said otherwise? What is your point with the above comment?

Those who did not believe, go to Hades and ultimatelybthe Lake of Fire, not into another womb.

You obviously do not understand what the Lake of Fire is.

Look at what Jesus is teaching in this verse...

Matthew 23:15 (Berean Literal Bible)
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you traverse the sea and the dry land to make one convert, and whenever it may happen, you make him twofold more a son of Gehenna than yourselves.

The phrase 'Son of Gehenna' is just as literal as 'Son of God'.

You are quite confused

You have little understanding...

Lol... and I am the one being accused of being unnecessarily sassy.

I noticed folks here love to end their posts with some sort of snide and rude comment.

 

[Wrangler]

Other verses make it plain that the judgment has eternal consequences, which necessarily rules out reincarnation.

I do not agree with the last part.

Like @Ronald David Bruno citing a verse without acceptable explanation for you, here you offer no explanation. Does this mean you expect less of yourself than others?

Of course, you disagree since you subscribe to the Eastern tenet of reincarnation. The point is on what basis do you disagree with the implications for reincarnation, which is it is not a Scripturally valid tenet, given the verses that make it plain that Judgment has eternal consequences?

 

[Wrangler]

Still other verses make it plain that we are to be resurrected into a glorified body, which will not die.

I disagree again. Angels can leave their first estate and go back to a corrupted body.

What do angels have to do with us being resurrected into a glorified body, which will not die?

 

[Wrangler]

How so? (That is, what verses contradiction humans die only one time?)

There are verses about the Second Death in Revelation. Die once and die twice is a contradiction.

Oy vey! A pretty word game, there. The frame of reference of only dieing once is before Judgment to eternal consequences. This is to be contrasted with the Eastern tenet of endless carnations, not necessarily culminating in a final judgement of one's state of existence for eternity.

The Second Death necessarily invalidates reincarnation since it is permanent or eternal, i.e., no more carnation. Annhiliation is not a form of ongoing life.

 

[QuantumBit]

Like @Ronald David Bruno citing a verse without acceptable explanation for you, here you offer no explanation. Does this mean you expect less of yourself than others?

Please refer to post #28...

Are pro-reincarnation discussions not allowed on Christianity Board anymore?

It used to be at one time. I noticed this one was locked for some reason...

The Bible supports reincarnation

Good article on Biblically-supported reincarnation here, though I came to the same conclusion separately: https://ocoy.org/original-christianity/may-a-christian-believe-in-reincarnation/ Many Bible quotes can be found within that support this concept. I won't spam the page up by listing them...

www.christianityboard.com

How am I supposed to offer an explanation if I do not know if it is allowed or not?

Funny how the most important question I asked goes unanswered, yet folks here are all like "ask us questions if you have an issue... bla bla bla."

Of course, you disagree since you subscribe to the Eastern tenet of reincarnation.

A very wrong assumption.

The point is on what basis do you disagree with the implications for reincarnation, which is it is not a Scripturally valid tenet, given the verses that make it plain that Judgment has eternal consequences?

Again, see post 28.

 

[Wrangler]

There are those who died and were brought back to life, only to die again later.

True but irrelevant to the point of being reincarnated as another life form, such as a cat. And they were certainly not returned as a baby but the same stage of development they were before the resurrection into a normal body.

 

[Wrangler]

There are those that never died.

This does not mean they reincarnate though, right?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Obviously. What is your point?

Judgment comes at death _ after one life _ therefore there is no reincarnation! Capisce?

There is nothing in the Bible that teaches that the Spirit dies.

Really? On the day Adam and Eve sinned, God said they would surely die. Physically, death came into reality. Every living organism began to die. Defects/ mutations began to evolve. Biologically, cells began to die. Adam and Eve, and all life didn't completely die on that day, but they began to age and eventually died. But something else died, spiritually, their relationship with God was severed and they passed that down to mankind. We are born with dead spirits. We have souls (mind, will, emotions, talents, creative abilities, personalities, etc.), but we are born without a relationship with God. It is like a cell phone with a dead battery: "Hello, hello ... no answer, no signal!"
When we are born again, God brings to life our spirit. Now we have a relationship, our spirit is alive, in Christ.

Of course. Have I said otherwise?

Yes, you claim reincarnation exists.

You obviously do not understand what the Lake of Fire is.

I take it literally. Like a lava lake in a volcano, but huge. When God destroys the heavens and earth in a fervant heat (2 Peter 3:10) at the end of time as we know it, from His view, it will look like a lake of fire.
I think that scene in "Lord of the Rings", when Gollum falls into the lava lake in the volcano, is about what unbelieving souls can expect.

The phrase 'Son of Gehenna' is just as literal as 'Son of God'.

Gehenna was a real place, a perpetual garbage dump, also used for dead and deseased animals outside of Jerusalem.
In anciant times, before Jerusalem, this was the same location where the Canaanities sacrificed babies to Molech, am evil place to say the least.
Gehenna gave the Israelites a concept of Hell. They could see fire, smoke, bodies burning and smoldering and on the perimeter, not directly in the fire, but on the edges, worms would not die and continue to feed off the rotting bodies and garbage. The Gehenna gives us all an idea of a future time and place of death and destruction, The Lake of Fire.

 

[Wrangler]

No. "Born again" is a metaphor.

Ouch. I totally disagree. Receiving a new body involves real and major physical changes.

Again, the idea of receiving a new body - other than an eternal, glorified body.

 

[QuantumBit]

This does not mean they reincarnate though, right?

You are missing the point that I was making.

To claim that 'everyone has to die, and it is only one time' is a false teaching.

Christians use Hebrews 9:27 ad nauseum to do just that and it needs to stop.

 

[QuantumBit]

Judgment comes at death _ after one life _ therefore there is no reincarnation! Capisce?

The point of Judgement Day is to hand out the sentences for the next life to the Unsaved...

Galatians 6:7
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

To claim that the Unsaved 'burn to infinity' or 'are annihilated' is to claim that the above verse is a lie.

You, and most everyone on this forum, are mocking God by claiming that everyone is punished equally.

No. The Unsaved will reap what they sow.

Adam and Eve, and all life didn't completely die on that day, but they began to age and eventually died.

See that? You changed Genesis 2:17 to make it fit your false narrative...

Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

The words 'day' and 'surely die' are both literal.

Day = Twenty-four hours or less
Surely Die = Physical death as well as the Second Death (it is a two in one phrase)

Look up all of the verses that use the phrase 'surely die' (twenty two in the KJV) and see that what you claim does not fit any one of them.

By changing the Word of God in Genesis 2:17, you have now broken all the other verses. They now contradict. Did you bother to double check that?

We are born with dead spirits.

There is no verse that teaches that. Spirit is alive... always. It is in all Life.

We have souls (mind, will, emotions, talents, creative abilities, personalities, etc.)

A Lifeform's Soul is its Genome. The Word was made flesh. DNA. What you describe is Spirit...

Luke 9:55
"But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of."

but we are born without a relationship with God.

Not sure what that means. We were the Morning Stars that sang together...

Job 38:7
"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

That was the entire Human Race, both Saved and Unsaved. We have always had a relationship with God.

When we are born again, God brings to life our spirit.

The Saved receive a renewal of the Holy Ghost. All Life has it by default. Not all Life gets a renewal.

Are we to believe that Jesus was without the Holy Ghost for almost his entire Life until this moment?...

Luke 3:22
"And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased."

The Spirit of God is what quickens all Life.

Gehenna was a real place, a perpetual garbage dump, also used for dead and deseased animals outside of Jerusalem.
In anciant times, before Jerusalem, this was the same location where the Canaanities sacrificed babies to Molech, am evil place to say the least.
Gehenna gave the Israelites a concept of Hell. They could see fire, smoke, bodies burning and smoldering and on the perimeter, not directly in the fire, but on the edges, worms would not die and continue to feed off the rotting bodies and garbage. The Gehenna gives us all an idea of a future time and place of death and destruction, The Lake of Fire.

This is a good start. The part that Christians ignore is that those thrown into Gehenna do not 'burn for infinity', there is a step-by-step process involved...

Leviticus 18:21
"And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD."

2 Kings 23:10
"And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech."

Jeremiah 32:35
"And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin."

Do you see it?

The Unsaved 'pass through' the fire. This is a big deal! And because Christians choose to ignore that critical detail, they are forever ignorant as to what the verses teach and what the Lake of Fire is all about.

The Unsaved pass through to Moloch, then something else happens. Etc. Etc. until the process is complete.

 

[Wrangler]

Of course, you disagree since you subscribe to the Eastern tenet of reincarnation.

A very wrong assumption.

I'm not dealing with assumptions but facts. Are you saying the fact of the matter is that you do not subscribe to reincarnation?

 

[Wrangler]

Like @Ronald David Bruno citing a verse without acceptable explanation for you, here you offer no explanation. Does this mean you expect less of yourself than others?

Please refer to post #28...

My question of you expecting less of yourself than others really has nothing to do with post #28, which is a question about the very subject of this thread as well as another thread that was closed. My question is about you, not all this other stuff.

 

[Wrangler]

How am I supposed to offer an explanation if I do not know if it is allowed or not?

You're an engineer, experiment.

Funny how the most important question I asked goes unanswered,

Well, who was your question directed to? If no one, that is who is likely to answer.