Is Reincarnation baloney?

[QuantumBit]

I'm not dealing with assumptions but facts. Are you saying the fact of the matter is that you do not subscribe to reincarnation?

Like I said earlier, what other religions teach of reincarnation is irrelevant. The Bible defines what reincarnation is. The teachings are not the same, although there are overlapping areas that agree.

Is the word 'reincarnation' in the Bible? Not that I can see, however the concept is interwoven all throughout.

Some of the Key Words/Phrases to look for are...

• Mystery of Iniquity
• Was, and is not, and yet is
• Child of Gehenna
• Son of Perdition
• Quicken Again
• Curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth

Those are all reincarnation terms. There are more, but you get the idea.

 

[Wrangler]

To claim that 'everyone has to die, and it is only one time' is a false teaching.

You claim that it is false. Numerous verses have already been provided that show reincarnation is not biblical.

 

[Wrangler]

Like I said earlier, what other religions teach of reincarnation is irrelevant. The Bible defines what reincarnation is.

You can say the Eastern tenet of reincarnation is irrelevant. But you cannot say that AND claim reincarnation is true and Biblical. It is anti-Biblical.

 

[QuantumBit]

My question of you expecting less of yourself than others really has nothing to do with post #28, which is a question about the very subject of this thread as well as another thread that was closed. My question is about you, not all this other stuff.

It has everything to do with my original question. My time is very valuable. I am not going to waste hours of my life defending my position, only to have it all deleted and have myself banned. This happens all the time. I have better things to do.

 

[QuantumBit]

You claim that it is false.

So, you believe that everyone has to die, and it is only one time, even though there are many verses teaching otherwise?

Numerous verses have already been provided that show reincarnation is not biblical.

Post one and let us debate. I will take the risk for now.

 

[Wrangler]

So, you believe that everyone has to die, and it is only one time, even though there are many verses teaching otherwise?

There are no verses teaching reincarnation in the Bible.

Playing word games with dying more than once side steps the point that we only die once before judgement - as a general rule. Sure, there are a couple of exceptions. But again, exceptions of a few being resurrected does not constitute reincarnation.

Exegesis. You have to start with the principle of reincarnation, then impose that on text that goes against reincarnation.

 

[QuantumBit]

There are no verses teaching reincarnation in the Bible.

I literally gave you a list that you conveniently ignored. You are being disingenuous now.

Playing word games with dying more than once side steps the point that we only die once before judgement - as a general rule.

I do not play 'word games'. Every death will be judged. There is nothing in Hebrews 9:27 that debunks reincarnation, which is the point I keep making.

Sure, there are a couple of exceptions.

That is called a contradiction. I do not believe in contradictions in the Bible as you do.

Looks like this is where you and I will have to agree to disagree.

Exegesis. You have to start with the principle of reincarnation, then impose that on text that goes against reincarnation.

This is not my thread. The burden of proof is on the OP. Not a single person on this thread has proven that reincarnation is not Biblical. They never will either. No one has. I have been waiting for someone to debunk it for years. There is simply no verse that teaches that the Unsaved 'burn for infinity' or are 'annihilated' etc.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Like I said earlier, what other religions teach of reincarnation is irrelevant. The Bible defines what reincarnation is. The teachings are not the same, although there are overlapping areas that agree.

Is the word 'reincarnation' in the Bible? Not that I can see, however the concept is interwoven all throughout.

Some of the Key Words/Phrases to look for are...

• Mystery of Iniquity
• Was, and is not, and yet is
• Child of Gehenna
• Son of Perdition
• Quicken Again
• Curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth

Those are all reincarnation terms. There are more, but you get the idea.

None of those terms pertain to the hypothetical process of reincarnation.

A perversion of theology might propose that a Christian saved by grace through faith in an earlier life is then for some obscure, unfathomable reason, caused to leave their eternal habitation and re-enter this temporal life as an unsaved child to different parents, with different DNA, physically alive but spiritually dead in their trespasses and sins with the possibility of remaining an unsaved sinner all their life, hardened to the gospel of salvation and this time around condemned to eternal damnation.

Definitely not a biblical teaching.

Rom 5:18-19 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. (19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.

 

[Wrangler]

I literally gave you a list that you conveniently ignored. You are being disingenuous now.

No. I specifically refuted the list. Perhaps not every single one. However, acknowledge and respond to the analysis I provided and we can delve into it more deeply.

Thanks!

 

[Gottservant]

On my rounds of the discussion boards I see that a lot of seemingly intelligent sensible people believe in reincarnation, namely that when we die we're born again as a baby somewhere.
Is there any Biblical scriptural support for it?

Jesus said John the Baptist was Elijah.

I think the simple proof (of reincarnation) is that we receive life, in this life, with a certain amount of instructions (that define who we are) and some of those instructions "overlap" with instructions (given) in other past lives. That's not to say we are "forced" to live out reincarnated lives, just that there is a reincarnated dimension - to what we already were!

It puts an interesting twist on the notion that "God is not willing that any should perish" - 'He appears to recycle, just in case'

The words of Jesus in this case talks about "the scribe that brings out of his household, things new and old" - we are not simply new at birth, nor are we completely dead in old age (but both, together).

 

[QuantumBit]

None of those terms pertain to the hypothetical process of reincarnation.

Of course they do. Let us go over one...

Matthew 23:15 (New American Bible)
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You traverse sea and land to make one convert, and when that happens you make him a child of Gehenna twice as much as yourselves.

The term 'Child of Gehenna' is just as literal as the term 'Son of God' or 'Son of Hagar' or any other 'Son of' in the Bible. Children, as in ALL OF US, are born out of Gehenna. That is what is written and that is what I believe. As a Christian, I have to.

That was Jesus Christ talking by the way. Are you seriously going to tell me that the words of Jesus do not matter?

And with that one verse alone I have been able to completely debunk the false teachings of 'reincarnation is not Biblical'.

Let us debunk the false teachings again...

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth."

The above verse is teaching where babies, i.e., you and I and everyone else, comes from. What does that last part say? Just about everyone on the planet knows that the 'lowest parts of the earth' is a reference to Hell, the Underworld, etc. That is where we come from. How did we get there? We got there by passing through the Lake of Fire.

So let us now apply the 'Babies are born from the lowest parts of the Earth' lesson we just learned to this next verse...

Ephesians 4:9
"Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?"

Jesus descended into the womb of Mary to incarnate. See how it all fits? Some believe Jesus 'went to Hell'. What is Hell? It is where babies come from according to Jesus.

What is this next verse teaching?

Psalms 63:9
"But those that seek my soul, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth."

Wait, we just learned that the 'lower parts of the Earth' is the womb. Yep. The Unsaved go to there to reincarnate.

A perversion of theology...

'Theology' is not the Word of God. Your point is irrelevant.

...physically alive but spiritually dead...

Looks like someone added to the Word of God. The word 'spiritual' is not there...

Ephesians 2:1
"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins"

You should know better.

Again, there is no such thing as 'spiritual death'. It is a made-up term to hide what actually took place in the Garden of Eden.

Rom 5:18-19 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. (19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.

The above verse does not debunk reincarnation.

 

[QuantumBit]

Mystery of Iniquity

Let us look at the verse...

2 Thessalonians 2:7
"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."

The Restrainer is Apollyon/Abaddon, an Angel who works for God. His job is to perform the 'memory wipe' so to speak.

He destroys both Body and Soul in the Lake of Fire...

Matthew 10:28
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Once that process is complete, the Spirit returns to God...

Ecclesiastes 12:7
"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

Spirit is never destroyed. Energy is always transferred. This is basic Science.

Said Spirit is now ready to be placed in a new Earthly body...

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth."

And that is the Mystery of Iniquity. The Restrainer will be 'taken out of the way' so that Satan can reincarnate once again without the memory wipe and destruction...

Revelation 17:8
"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

Satan was a previous Antichrist. Satan died. Satan 'is not'. Yet, Satan 'is'. Get it? That is reincarnation people as plain as can be. The Mystery of Iniquity is reincarnation.

What is the opposite?

Mystery of Godliness

1 Timothy 3:16
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

Thus...

Mystery of Godliness = God manifest in the flesh
Mystery of Iniquity = Satan manifest in the flesh

So simple!!!

 

[QuantumBit]

Son of Perdition

John 17:12
"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

2 Thessalonians 2:3
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition"

Once again, Jesus Christ is speaking in John 17:12. Are we just going to ignore the phrase 'Son of Perdition'?

It is LITERAL. A Child will be born from Gehenna, the place of destruction.

Was - is not - yet is.

 

[QuantumBit]

Do any of you folks even know where the word Tophet came from?

Isaiah 30:33
"For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it."

What is the etymology? Did any of you do your homework before making your accusations?

You better find out. This is an extremely important word. If you do not know the source of the word Tophet, then you are very ignorant and have no business preaching 'Hell Fire' to people.

 

[Mr E]

OR......

You could just take scripture (Jesus) at his word.....

You MUST be born again.

 

[QuantumBit]

OR......

You could just take scripture (Jesus) at his word.....

You MUST be born again.

Bingo!

The phrase goes both ways...

John 3:4
"Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?"

The answer is YES!

Job 1:21
"And said, Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD."

Job was so sure that he was not going to Heaven, that he assumed he would be reincarnated.

The word 'thither' always means a location. In Job's case, that location was his Mother's womb.

Jesus never said no.

Matthew 21:31
"Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you."

Some folks enter the Kingdom before others. That is reincarnation.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Jesus said John the Baptist was Elijah.

See the full context: John the Baptist was not the Reincarnation of Elijah

 

[friend of]

The thing that gets me the most about the prospect reincarnation is the idea that those who incurred good karma from a past life would reincarnate into a rich or famous person, or a person with the world as their oyster. We know for a fact that the majority of rich and famous people are actually not good people. They are usually self-absorbed and step on those below them. They are also lovers of this world and the world loves them back. Scriptures speak to this. Does anyone know what I mean?

 

[Stumpmaster]

'Theology' is not the Word of God. Your point is irrelevant.

Biblical Theology is the study of God as revealed in the Bible.

Very relevant.

 

[Gottservant]

See the full context: John the Baptist was not the Reincarnation of Elijah

That site contradicts itself:

Second, the Bible is quite clear that John the Baptist is called “Elijah” because he came in the “spirit and power of Elijah” (Luke 1:17), not because he was Elijah in a literal sense.

What is the spirit and power of Elijah, if not Elijah?

As to (John) being asked "Are you Elijah?" the emphasis is on the word "are", they did not ask "were you Elijah?"

As Jesus basically implied some people would find it hard to believe, saying "if you can accept it" (not "you must accept it")