Is Reincarnation baloney?

[Wrangler]

None of those terms pertain to the hypothetical process of reincarnation.

Agreed. Our new friend has reincarnation as his doctrine and practices exegesis, imposing his doctrine onto text that is hostile to it.

For instance, Scripture talks clearly about how Second Death is eternal, no recovery from. If reincarnation were a thing, the number of births and deaths would continue indefinitely. But we find no such text. The finality of Second Death, an outcome of Judgement, goes against this Eastern religion tenet. Second Death is not experienced as a result of a reincarnation but a resurrection following Judgement. The consequence of Judgement is NOT one form of reincarnation but annihilation, aka death from which there is no return in any form.

Although @QuantumBit does not explain how his belief apparently differs from this Eastern religion tenet, he still claims other religions are irrelevant and proclaims a Gospel not found in Scripture. Another poster pointed out what Jesus saved us from; sin and death. He did this one time as he was resurrected one time (and never reincarnated).

if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved (NOT reincarnated indefinitely).
Roman 10:9

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. (NOT reincarnated indefinitely).
1 Corinthians 15:22

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:8

 

[Stumpmaster]

What is the spirit and power of Elijah, if not Elijah?

Unlike Elijah, J the B did no miracles but there are similarities, as Matthew Henry's Commentary relates.

Quote from notes on Luke 1:17

[3.] He shall go in the spirit and power of Elias. That is,
First, He shall be such a man as Elias was, and do such work as Elias did,
- shall, like him, preach the necessity of repentance and reformation to a very corrupt and degenerate age, - shall, like him, be bold and zealous in reproving sin and witnessing against it even in the greatest, and be hated and persecuted for it by a Herod and his Herodias, as Elijah was by an Ahab and his Jezebel.

He shall be carried on in his work, as Elijah was, by a divine spirit and power, which shall crown his ministry with wonderful success.

As Elias went before the writing prophets of the Old Testament, and did as it were usher in that signal period of the Old Testament dispensation by a little writing of his own (2Ch_21:12), so John Baptist went before Christ and his apostles, and introduced the gospel dispensation by preaching the substance of the gospel doctrine and duty, Repent, with an eye to the kingdom of heaven.

Secondly, He shall be that very person who was prophesied of by Malachi under the name of Elijah (Mal_4:5), who should be sent before the coming of the day of the Lord. Behold, I send you a prophet, even Elias, not Elias the Tishbite (as the Septuagint has corruptly read it, to favour the Jews' traditions), but a prophet in the spirit and power of Elias, as the angel here expounds it.

 

[QuantumBit]

Biblical Theology is the study of God as revealed in the Bible.

Very relevant.

'Study of God' and 'Word of God' are two different things. If one cannot prove their 'theology' with verses, then they have no proof.

So far no one here has proven reincarnation is not Biblical using actual verses.

 

[QuantumBit]

See the full context: John the Baptist was not the Reincarnation of Elijah

Yawn. Someone made a website, so they must be right.

Nope. All your link does is conclude that Jesus lied, and John told the Truth.

What heresy!

I trust Jesus as opposed to Man. If you wish to trust Man more than Jesus, that is your choice.

 

[QuantumBit]

The thing that gets me the most about the prospect reincarnation is the idea that those who incurred good karma from a past life would reincarnate into a rich or famous person, or a person with the world as their oyster. We know for a fact that the majority of rich and famous people are actually not good people. They are usually self-absorbed and step on those below them. They are also lovers of this world and the world loves them back. Scriptures speak to this. Does anyone know what I mean?

While Life may be good for some, it is certainly not fair for the others. Many in this world experience profound suffering through no fault of their own. Something I do a lot in my spare time is read about, or watch videos about, how bad others have it in various countries of the world. It absolutely breaks my heart to witness what is happening out there.

Things like...

*) Child kidnapping and abuse
*) Slave labor
*) People living in terrible pollution and working conditions
*) Severe poverty and hunger
*) Chronic health problems from birth
*) Etc., etc.

I look at my life and I have it good compared to them. Not a single Christian has ever been able to explain why this is.

I have noticed that those who have it good are very cavalier in their attitudes towards religion, God and the afterlife. Why should they care? 'Life is good'. Who cares about all of the suffering in the world. Who cares if billions go to the Lake of Fire? Not their problem.

 

[QuantumBit]

So...

What have we learned so far about the responses in this thread?

It would seem that many here would rather relentlessly defend the tired old false narrative and dogma that "God is Love and will burn you to infinity!!!" rather than properly interpret Scripture through the lens of Mercy and Grace.

While I am here trying to build bridges to the other folks on this forum with different beliefs, the "God hates you" people are busy tearing those bridges down. What does that say about them? Are they paid to promote such hate, or do they actually do the bidding of Satan for free? No wonder some have 'the good life'. Satan provides.

And what is the point of this forum? To divide?

I submit to this forum that those who believe that the unsaved 'burn for infinity' have serious mental issues. They have Hearts full of hatred. But do not take my word for it. Practically everyone on the planet that is not a Christian would agree with me. They think Christians are beyond help and hopelessly filled with wickedness and utter contempt for the Human Race for preaching that obsolete garbage. How ironic.

There is absolutely no way in the world I will ever believe in a God of Hate as most of you do. Many are waking up to the scam. I hope you do as well.

 

[QuantumBit]

What is the spirit and power of Elijah, if not Elijah?

Exactly. Coming in the Spirit and Power of another is literally the very definition of reincarnation.

The Cognitive Dissonance displayed in this thread is repulsive. The dishonesty is off the charts.

I have provided so many verses with interpretations proving many times over that reincarnation is Biblical, and they all got ignored.

Meanwhile some have resorted to character attacks. How desperate and childish.

 

[DJT_47]

On my rounds of the discussion boards I see that a lot of seemingly intelligent sensible people believe in reincarnation, namely that when we die we're born again as a baby somewhere.
Is there any Biblical scriptural support for it?

It's not biblical in fact contrary to it. And to your comment about so called intelligent, sensible, people

Proverbs 14:12

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

 

[Wrangler]

So far no one here has proven reincarnation is not Biblical using actual verses.

Says you. Many have already provided Biblical verses proving reincarnation is not Biblical, including me.

 

[Wrangler]

It would seem that many here would rather relentlessly defend the tired old false narrative and dogma that "God is Love and will burn you to infinity!!!" rather than properly interpret Scripture through the lens of Mercy and Grace.

Great! There is no Lake of Fire for the damned, leading to second and permanent death. What verse says reincarnation is a thing?

Fact is, neither the word nor the idea is in Scripture.

 

[Mr E]

Are pro-reincarnation discussions not allowed on Christianity Board anymore?

It used to be at one time. I noticed this one was locked for some reason...

The Bible supports reincarnation

Good article on Biblically-supported reincarnation here, though I came to the same conclusion separately: https://ocoy.org/original-christianity/may-a-christian-believe-in-reincarnation/ Many Bible quotes can be found within that support this concept. I won't spam the page up by listing them...

www.christianityboard.com

As I was reading through this thread, I was thinking that I'd discussed this before.... ah, the other (closed) thread.

It was closed without notice, seemingly without reason, and absolutely without explanation. I asked @Adam -the OP about it and he told me that no one offered any reason for locking it. He wasn't even notified.

It's a sacred cow. Also known as "mussentouch." It makes some folks nervous.

 

[Mr E]

So, why was the other thread locked? Was it by request of the OP, or is there an agenda here?

Most of you should know by now how damaging censorship is. Look at all of the threads on this forum promoting alchemy and all kinds of other things Christians would consider blasphemous, yet they are allowed to continue.

Truth is often not allowed nowadays. What does that say about this topic if it is banned? It sounds like reincarnation may be precisely over the target of what the Bible actually teaches, yet there is a Spirit that will not allow it.

No the OP did not request that it be closed. He was as confused as anyone. In fact, he hasn't been seen in over a month. I know he was frustrated with actions like this.

I don't think there's any conspiracy. All it takes is one over-zealous Moderator to lock a thread. In this particular example no explanation was given. Maybe someone was having a bad day. I was an over-zealous Moderator in a past life.

 

[Mr E]

What have we learned so far about the responses in this thread?

It would seem that many here would rather relentlessly defend the tired old false narrative and dogma that "God is Love and will burn you to infinity!!!" rather than properly interpret Scripture through the lens of Mercy and Grace.

While I am here trying to build bridges to the other folks on this forum with different beliefs, the "God hates you" people are busy tearing those bridges down. What does that say about them? Are they paid to promote such hate, or do they actually do the bidding of Satan for free? No wonder some have 'the good life'. Satan provides.

Part of the problem is that most people you encounter will automatically assume that when you say "reincarnation" your idea of that MUST be what they think of when they hear that term. I suspect it is not. Folks like @Wrangler can't get their heads past the idea of Eastern Reincarnation when you say 'reincarnation' and he falsely assumes that since you say you have an understanding of reincarnation you MUST then be talking about his idea of it. He thinks you MUST be suggesting that a person dies and comes back as a rat, or a cat, or a blade of grass, or a cow that eats that blade of grass that was some other person at one time. But that's not the biblical tenet, and I know that is not what you are referring to. Don't let the deficits of others dissuade you. Some folks won't be able to grasp hold of the concept because they are desperately clinging to some other concept they refuse to put down. Their hands and pockets, and heads-- are full.

Your desire to build bridges is admirable, but you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it cross over that water on your bridge, much less convince him to have a drink along the way.

There are some excellent passages of scripture that highlight the very biblical concept of rebirth, or being born again-- let's use those terms since they are directly from scripture, rather than the highly loaded term 'reincarnation' that doesn't actually appear in scripture at all except by way of allusion. That might help eliminate some confusion for those folks that think they MUST know what you are talking about, though it's painfully apparent that they do not.

 

[Wrangler]

It's a sacred cow.

I don't think it's a sacred cow to Christianity. To Eastern religionists, yes.

 

[Enoch111]

Folks like @Wrangler can't get their heads past the idea of Eastern Reincarnation when you say 'reincarnation' and he falsely assumes that since you say you have an understanding of reincarnation you MUST then be talking about his idea of it.

There is only one concept of reincarnation and that is IN FACT what is incorporated into Eastern religions, primarily Hinduism. So don't try to invent something else to fit your false beliefs. You are saying others "falsely assume" when that is not true.

"Reincarnation is the religious or philosophical belief that the soul or spirit, after biological death, begins a new life in a new body that may be human, animal or spiritual depending on the moral quality of the previous life's actions."

 

[Mr E]

I don't think it's a sacred cow to Christianity. To Eastern religionists, yes.

Still stuck.

@QuantumBit and I are not suggesting 'Eastern reincarnation' whatever you think that is.

We are discussing the biblical concept of eternal life. Life everlasting. Also known as the good news.

You might think that a person dies and after that they are judged and that 'the good people' go on to live forever (somewhere else-- whatever your idea of Heaven or Paradise might be) and that 'the bad people' go straight to hell without passing Go and collecting $200.

That's an uninformed perspective. You can believe whatever you like, but that doesn't make your beliefs truth.

 

[Mr E]

There is only one concept of reincarnation and that is IN FACT what is incorporated into Eastern religions, primarily Hinduism. So don't try to invent something else to fit your false beliefs. You are saying others "falsely assume" when that is not true.

"Reincarnation is the religious or philosophical belief that the soul or spirit, after biological death, begins a new life in a new body that may be human, animal or spiritual depending on the moral quality of the previous life's actions."

Already addressed. If that's what you and @Wrangler think we are discussing here, you're in error- because it's not. You might as well start another thread on 'Eastern Religions' or 'Hinduism' or something like that and establish your dictionary definition as the premise for your discussion in the OP.

But that's not what we are talking about here.

 

[Wrangler]

We are discussing the biblical concept of eternal life. Life everlasting. Also known as the good news.

No. I don't think you are. Rather you are imposing the notion of reincarnation onto text that rejects it.

While attacking my dim wittedness, I noticed you scoffed at my "assumptions" but never defined what reincarnation means in the context of Christianity. <sigh>

That's an uninformed perspective.

Educate me. Spare me your judgement.

 

[Mr E]

It's a trap folks get caught in. When they are stuck thinking all they know is all there is. It prevents them from moving a step beyond their own understanding unless they are willing to chew off their own leg. Few are willing. People have certain ideas concerning life after death, or everlasting life. But are their ideas accurate? They only go by what they've been told or taught. They dismiss stories that counter their beliefs as nonsense because those stories do not correlate to their own personal experience. Scripture, interestingly-- is chock full of exceptions. It's exceptional because it does not comport to ordinary experience. Life after death. You must be born again. What about life after birth?

There were twin boys knit closely together in the womb. Two small souls at rest, yet developing as they should, a natural course of these very young lives. And one of these as though awakened was pondering things- notions he had as from hazy recollection of a dream... He said to his brother-- 'I think there is more to life than this.'

The other twin replied, 'What do you mean? Life is no more than being alive, my Brother- and we are most certainly alive. This life is what it is, and all that it should be.'

'No-- I think there is more to it' said the first. 'A life beyond this watery world.'

'Nonsense' argued the other - 'We were given these bodies and everything we need to survive is provided us here in this woven sac that is sealed around us. All we need is delivered daily by this cord that provides us nutrients and life! Cut the cord and you will live no more!'

And they went back and forth like this for sometime, one imagining a world apart from the womb where one day he would walk on his two legs and not be confined to wash about in water. He imagined better food - diverse, different, delicious dishes that he would partake of sitting at a table with many others... All of this his brother dismissed as far fetched fantasy.

But the thought never left his mind.... Life, after birth.

 

[Wrangler]

It's a trap folks get caught in. When they are stuck thinking all they know is all there is.

Not a Scripture verse in cite. (PUN intended)

So, your idea begins with an Appeal to Ignorance and dividing "us" from "the other." Who gets caught in the trap? "They". You would never get stuck in the trap of your beliefs are not true because you believe them, right?

Although YOU do not know what lies beyond the door, it could be X. X does not have to be in Scripture to be true either, right?

What a trip! What an anti-Scriptural trip.