Is The Beast Of Revelation 13:1-8 A Political System On Earth?

[Truth7t7]

I agree, the Beast will be a man, the Antichrist. But the greater context involves the 4th Beast Daniel mentions in Dan 7. The 4th Beast is the Roman Empire. This Empire will continue on through history in the form of European Civilization, long after the fall of Rome in 476 AD.

So, the Beast can be referred to as both a political system and a man. Daniel described the Beast as a political system consisting of 10 states and 7 political leaders, presided over by an emperor, the Antichrist. This will come out of Europe, just as it has been doing since the Roman Empire.

Jerusalem is the whore mystery babylon the great of Revelation 17, the antichrist will be a human man if Jewish/Hebrew decent

I disagree with your theory in duplicity of (The Beast) he will be a human man, rome plays no part in the prophecy in Revelation chapters 17/18

 

[No Pre-TB]

I agree, the Beast will be a man, the Antichrist. But the greater context involves the 4th Beast Daniel mentions in Dan 7. The 4th Beast is the Roman Empire. This Empire will continue on through history in the form of European Civilization, long after the fall of Rome in 476 AD.

So, the Beast can be referred to as both a political system and a man. Daniel described the Beast as a political system consisting of 10 states and 7 political leaders, presided over by an emperor, the Antichrist. This will come out of Europe, just as it has been doing since the Roman Empire.

It’s important when explaining a personal position on future events not yet fulfilled, you do it in a way to demonstrate your opinion. Making statements appear as facts are not credible. They are opinions. “The 4th beast is the Roman Empire.”

Plenty of people could argue their own opinions against that assertion.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

It’s important when explaining a personal position on future events not yet fulfilled, you do it in a way to demonstrate your opinion. Making statements appear as facts are not credible. They are opinions. “The 4th beast is the Roman Empire.”

Plenty of people could argue their own opinions against that assertion.

The Fourth Beast received a Mortal Wound, which of course means its dead. The last Beast of Daniel is not numbered, its simply called a Little Horn, which means its one man, Daniel 7:11 tells us the Beasts BODY us destroyed and that he is killed and cast int hell. Kingdoms are not cast into hell fire. The 4 Beasts are seen in Rev. 13 as is the Little Horn, that makes 5 total Beasts.

Rome received the Mortal Wound of this figurative 7 Headed Beast (which includes Egypt and Assyria) and the Little Horn Heals the wound, meaning the 7 Headed Beast over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region is revived, he does so by going forth conquering as Daniel 11:40-43 shows us.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Jerusalem is the whore mystery babylon the great of Revelation 17, the antichrist will be a human man if Jewish/Hebrew decent

I disagree with your theory in duplicity of (The Beast) he will be a human man, rome plays no part in the prophecy in Revelation chapters 17/18

And I disagree that Jerusalem is Harlot Babylon and that the Antichrist will be Jewish.

 

[No Pre-TB]

The Fourth Beast received a Mortal Wound, which of course means its dead. The last Beast of Daniel is not numbered, its simply called a Little Horn, which means its one man, Daniel 7:11 tells us the Beasts BODY us destroyed and that he is killed and cast int hell. Kingdoms are not cast into hell fire. The 4 Beasts are seen in Rev. 13 as is the Little Horn, that makes 5 total Beasts.

Rome received the Mortal Wound of this figurative 7 Headed Beast (which includes Egypt and Assyria) and the Little Horn Heals the wound, meaning the 7 Headed Beast over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region is revived, he does so by going forth conquering as Daniel 11:40-43 shows us.

IMHO, You have made a few grievous scriptural errors.

1. The 4th beasts does not receive a mortal wound. One of the head(s) of the beast with 7 heads received the wound. Rev 13:3
How many heads does a man have?

2. The last beast of Daniel, referring to the beast that comes out of the sea, is not a horn. The horns are ON the beast, they are not the beast itself. Daniel 7 makes that abundantly clear. The beast does not wear a crown, the horns do.

3. Dan 7:23
Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

4. Rome is not mentioned. If you remember the text, when it was given to John it was said the beast that was and IS NOT (it wasn’t in John’s time which WAS Rome). It is pass tense. Something to consider. Especially when the physical makeup is part Bear, Lion and Leopard. Where is Rome in these 3 previous kingdoms?

 

[Randy Kluth]

It’s important when explaining a personal position on future events not yet fulfilled, you do it in a way to demonstrate your opinion. Making statements appear as facts are not credible. They are opinions. “The 4th beast is the Roman Empire.”

Plenty of people could argue their own opinions against that assertion.

I completely agree! I try to express what I *think* is true, while stating that these things are *my opinioin.* Some things are not, however, just an opinion, but just facts. They should be stated as such, even if some would questions whether they are indeed facts. In this case, the supposed "facts" should be put out there as such for others to decide for themselves whether they are truly "facts" or not.

It is a fact of history that from Babylon, where Daniel was when he wrote, through a succession of 4 major players in that region we arrive at the Roman Empire as the "4th." And plenty of scholars therefore interpret the 4th Beast as the Roman Empire!

There is nothing new or controversial about this. Whether you arrange the series of powers differently, Rome is a credible candidate for the 4th of these 4 powers.

So I would say that it is a *fact* that Rome can be viewed as the 4th in a succession of powers beginning with Babylon. I'm not stating, as fact, that I'm definitely right, since there are a few alternatives to this position.

You're going to have to decide for yourself if I'm stating things as facts or opinions. I'm not always going to qualify everything I say as "my opinion," particularly if the position I'm stating has a lot of facts backing up that position, and lots of others agree with this position in the world of scholars.

 

[No Pre-TB]

I completely agree! I try to express what I *think* is true, while stating that these things are *my opinioin.* Some things are not, however, just an opinion, but just facts. They should be stated as such, even if some would questions whether they are indeed facts. In this case, the supposed "facts" should be put out there as such for others to decide for themselves whether they are truly "facts" or not.

It is a fact of history that from Babylon, where Daniel was when he wrote, through a succession of 4 major players in that region we arrive at the Roman Empire as the "4th." And plenty of scholars therefore interpret the 4th Beast as the Roman Empire!

There is nothing new or controversial about this. Whether you arrange the series of powers differently, Rome is a credible candidate for the 4th of these 4 powers.

So I would say that it is a *fact* that Rome can be viewed as the 4th in a succession of powers beginning with Babylon. I'm not stating, as fact, that I'm definitely right, since there are a few alternatives to this position.

You're going to have to decide for yourself if I'm stating things as facts or opinions. I'm not always going to qualify everything I say as "my opinion," particularly if the position I'm stating has a lot of facts backing up that position, and lots of others agree with this position in the world of scholars.

Apologize for the long wait to reply, I’ve been very busy today. I appreciate the acknowledgement Randy and respect that.

As far as Rome is concerned, John was told there are 7 heads (of the beast). One “is”, which during John’s time was Roman. But he was also told the beast that was and is not, not during John’s time but in the past, becomes the 8th after the 7 heads are slain.
If Roman was 6th (is), it is established as a head that will eventually be slain because then ALL the heads wore crowns, including Rome. But now, the horns wear crowns ON the 8th which is the beasts of the seas body.

There are other issues to contemplate. Rome never destroyed others to utterly wipe them out and demolish all the land that nothing is left. Yet we see that in the 4th beasts whose feet is like a bear that tramples and destroys till things are ground to powder. Rome actually built up foreign cities. Had projects to build damns, streets etc..Completely opposite of how the 4th beast is described.

Im not telling you to completely discount Rome. What I’m saying is, there’s plenty logical explanations that show Rome is not as strong a candidate as some think.

Another is in Daniel. He is told about 3 literal brick/mortar kingdoms. But when we read about this last one, it’s different then all others? What makes it different if it has similarities of the 3 previous ones? Is it a literal kingdom, is it a spiritually wicked one? Is it both? Rome wasn’t that different then the other 3. Each had cultural differences. Perhaps each had nationalistic differences in their goals. But the Bible says this kingdom is different then all the others. That doesn’t describe Rome. I don’t know what it describes but obviously, when people see it, they worship it.

 

[Truth7t7]

And I disagree that Jerusalem is Harlot Babylon and that the Antichrist will be Jewish.

The Future Human Man, The Antichrist Seen Below In (Daniel) 11:37 Will Be A Hebrew/Jew In Decent, His Fathers Worshipped The True Hebrew (God Of His Fathers)

(Daniel) 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Examples: God Of His Fathers

(2 Kings) 21:22KJV
22 And he forsook the Lord God of his fathers, and walked not in the way of the Lord.

(2 Chronicles) 21:10KJV
10 So the Edomites revolted from under the hand of Judah unto this day. The same time also did Libnah revolt from under his hand; because he had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers.

 

[Truth7t7]

And I disagree that Jerusalem is Harlot Babylon and that the Antichrist will be Jewish.

(Jerusalem) Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great.

The Levitical High Priest Dressing represents "The Woman", that is dressed in purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones as seen below

(Revelation) 17:4KJV
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Yes "The Woman", The Levitical High Priest, Dressed In Purple, Scarlet, Gold, And Precious Stones

(Exodus) 28:15-20KJV
15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.
16 Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.
17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.

(Jerusalem) is the seven Mount city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

(Revelation) 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

(Revelation) 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

(Matthew) 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Jerusalem (The Woman) that (Great City) as seen below, Jerusalem where Jesus Christ was crucified

Revelation 17:18AKJV
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Revelation 11:8AKJV
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Jews/Hebrews cast dust upon their heads, weeping for the (Great City) Jerusalem

Revelation 18:19AKJV
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Apologize for the long wait to reply, I’ve been very busy today. I appreciate the acknowledgement Randy and respect that.

As far as Rome is concerned, John was told there are 7 heads (of the beast). One “is”, which during John’s time was Roman. But he was also told the beast that was and is not, not during John’s time but in the past, becomes the 8th after the 7 heads are slain.
If Roman was 6th (is), it is established as a head that will eventually be slain because then ALL the heads wore crowns, including Rome. But now, the horns wear crowns ON the 8th which is the beasts of the seas body.

There are other issues to contemplate. Rome never destroyed others to utterly wipe them out and demolish all the land that nothing is left. Yet we see that in the 4th beasts whose feet is like a bear that tramples and destroys till things are ground to powder. Rome actually built up foreign cities. Had projects to build damns, streets etc..Completely opposite of how the 4th beast is described.

Im not telling you to completely discount Rome. What I’m saying is, there’s plenty logical explanations that show Rome is not as strong a candidate as some think.

Another is in Daniel. He is told about 3 literal brick/mortar kingdoms. But when we read about this last one, it’s different then all others? What makes it different if it has similarities of the 3 previous ones? Is it a literal kingdom, is it a spiritually wicked one? Is it both? Rome wasn’t that different then the other 3. Each had cultural differences. Perhaps each had nationalistic differences in their goals. But the Bible says this kingdom is different then all the others. That doesn’t describe Rome. I don’t know what it describes but obviously, when people see it, they worship it.

This is a pretty big subject, and yes, there are differences between legitimate views, and my own view is purely opinion. If you know me, I don't originate anything. If God meant to say something to the Church, He would've been saying it from the beginning and throughout Church history--He wouldn't just wait to tell me!

So I search all the views of history, ie views with any credibility. And I often find that some views are strong and may have a couple of weak weak points associated with them.

And so, I may take as acceptable a few points and reject the overall school of interpretation, or I may accept the school of interpretation and reject a few points in that school. This is how I come to all of my own views, by picking and choosing in each school what points I find most credible. And I pick the school most likely, as well.

Many of the Early Church Fathers viewed the 4th Kingdom of Dan 2 and 7 as the Roman Kingdom. "666" may be a cryptic numerological depiction of the 1st Roman King, indicating the Beast is a Roman Emperor-type.

Since numerology isn't used like this today, I think we're stuck with locating the numerological value of an ancient figure, such as Nero or the 1st Roman king, as I suggested. I don't believe it's Nero.

We also have Rev 17, where "the 7 kings of the Beast" become symbols of a few clues. The 7 Kings can be used to point to 7 Mountains, which suggest in the minds of the readers the "7 Hills of Rome."

Or, the 7 Kings can be used to point to 7 successive kingdoms in history in the Bible. This might be Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, and the Antichristian Empire. Antichrist himself is "the 8th." He makes this European Confederation into his own empire.

We know, from Dan 7, that there will be 10 Kingdoms confederated under Antichrist, with only 7 Kings presiding over them, together with the Antichrist. But these 7 Kings are used in Rev 17 to present word riddles, pointing, I believe, to Rome.

Finally, we are told that this is the city that rules over the world. This in the time it was read would've been Rome. So we have lots of things pointing to Rome.

We also have Christ who said the theocracy would be taken from Israel and given to a nation worthy of it. Again, that would be Rome, the empire that adopted and converted to Christianity, making it into what we now call "European Civilization."

What makes its glaringly obvious to me is not just the fact the Church Fathers identified it at such, but the fact Daniel identified the 1st of the kingdoms. It was Babylon, where Daniel himself saw these dreams. And we know the succession thereafter, leading to Rome.

In Dan 11, we see the 3rd in succession, Greece, being thwarted by a Roman ambassador. Though we are only told that Antiochus 4 would "lose heart," we know from history that it was a Roman ambassador that caused him to lose heart when he tried to re-conquer Egypt.

What made Rome so "terrible" was the sheer dominance of its power. And as we know, Rome was incredibly dominant after the 3 preceding powers, and evolved into the great European Civilization we see today.

Dan 9 talks about a roughly 487.5 year period between Artaxerxes' decree and the coming of Christ. And Christ is depicted as being cut off, perhaps by a prince whose Army destroys Jerusalem and the temple. This was Rome.

Rome is very important in the history of prophecy. One of our NT books is called "Romans." I don't see how IDing Rome can be marginalized? It is a reasonable candidate for the 4th Beast, the Antichristian Empire, and the Harlot Babylon.

If you disagree with any of this, I'd like to hear your reasons?

 

[Ronald D Milam]

IMHO, You have made a few grievous scriptural errors.

1. The 4th beasts does not receive a mortal wound. One of the head(s) of the beast with 7 heads received the wound. Rev 13:3
How many heads does a man have?

I don't make errors when I talk about Prophesies, I may just understand things you probably don't understand as of yet or maybe have never heard of. When I am espousing a guess I qualify it as such. When I put forth deep truths, listen up. I don't joke around with the holy word of God. It's my calling.

The 4 Beasts from Daniel on are the exact same Beasts as the seven in Revelation, only John is looking back in time at all 7 of the Beasts because he is in the future looking back in time. So, he sees Greece(Leopard), Babylon(Lion) and Persia(Bear) naming them so we will know they are the same Beasts of Daniel. Then he speaks of the Beast that received the Mortal Wound (Rome) AND the Beast that Heals that Mortal Wound of nigh 2000 years, when Israel finally gets conquered again by a POWER (Animalistic Dominion) Kingdom and that will be by the Anti-Christ himself, the 5th Beast of Daniel, the 7th Beast in Rev. 13, now lets figure out who the two other Beasts were which Daniel was never told about because he was LOOKING FORWARD, whereas John was looking backwards in time. Lets see, what other two powers ruled over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region? Might it be Egypt and Assyria? Ding, ding, ring the bell chicken dinner/winner.

There are 7 Beast Powers that rule over Israel while she was a nation, from Egypt to Rome equals six, then Israel became as Dead Men's Bones, they were not a nation in God's eyes for nigh 2000 years so they could not be ruled over, and the Church came into being, and we know Jesus said that the gates of hell shall not prevail against my church, so we (church) turned Rome from a Beast into a conveyor belt of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, thus the Mortal Wound, there was no Beast for nigh 2000 years.

This 7 Headed Beast is a figurative beast which God is using in Juxtaposition to all 7 Kingdoms which rule over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region, while Israel (the bible is about Israel) is seen as a nation by God, so From Egypt to 70ish-90ish AD and then staring again in 1948. Thus the Ottoman Empire nor the Brits are seem as Beasts by God. These Beasts all arise out of the great sea (Mediterranean Sea) in order to show whom they rule over(Israel/Mediterranean Nations) in this animalistic domineering type of way.

Rev. 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion:(Notice the REVERSE order/Looking BACK) and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death(Rome); and his deadly wound was healed (The Anti-Christ revives the Beast by Conquering Israel): and all the world wondered after the beast.

Why should I care how many heads a man has when God is showing us a figurative Seven Headed Beast just like he showed us a 5 Part Statue? Gold, Silver, Brass, Iron AND Iron and Clay mixed together.

2. The last beast of Daniel, referring to the beast that comes out of the sea, is not a horn. The horns are ON the beast, they are not the beast itself. Daniel 7 makes that abundantly clear. The beast does not wear a crown, the horns do.

I can prove the Last Beast is a man called the Little Horn. First, lets put down some factoids for a reference.

Dan. 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

All of these Beast Kingdoms started out with one man/one king being that Dominant Ruler !! These Four were indeed Kingdoms where they all passed they Beast Kingdoms onto others. The Little Horn doesn't do that he dies while still the Beast power over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region. Unlike all of the others !!

Dan. 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake(man speaking): I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts,(Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome) they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

So, the Little Horn is SPECIFICALLY called a Beast in verse 11, he's killed and cast into hell just like Rev. 19:20 says, he and the false prophet are cast into hellfire. Then Daniel writes, as for the rest of the Beasts, they all lost dominion but yet they lived on for a time and a season. Babylon was Alexander the Greats home when he died, Persia is Iran, Greece is still a nation as is Italy(Rome). The Last Beast is not Rome, its the Little Horn, but why is it called the Little Horn? Because Horns usually stands for kingdoms in the bible by telling us this is a "Little Horn" God is telling us this ONE MAN will never pass his kingdom on to another man like all of the others did, thus he is diverse from the first (Rome) like verse 24 says !!

Lets look at the Fourth Beast and the 10 Horns AND the Little Horn passage.

Dan. 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast(Rome), dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three(or meaning this is the fourth) of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Rome was indeed the Fourth Beast, the Chaldean language is used here by Daniel. I will get to why this could be calling Rome the Fourth Beast later via the three which were plucked up, its a riddle really. Anyway, Rome is the fourth beast, then 10 arise out of her head, the number 10 means completion, so when Rome goes away as a Beast Gabriel is telling Daniel that "10" or the complete number thereof or all Europe consisting of however many nations it is at that time, will eventually arise to power, but as Daniel chapter 2 says they will be partly strong and partly weak, they will be like unto Iron & Clay, meaning of course you will have France, Germany, Spain, (used to have England) and you will also have Luxembourg, Latvia, Cyprus, Estonia, Malta etc. hence the partly strong and partly weak mix and match of kingdoms.

Try as they might these 10 (Europe) could never reunite, Charlemagne tried to reunite them, as did Napoleon, as did wacky Hitler with his Third Reich effort, but to no avail. Dan. 2:43 says, they will mingle themselves with the seed of men (Royal Marriage) but they will not cleave unto one another just as Iron doesn't mix with Clay. So, what this basically says is that after Israel is brought back to life, a ununified Europe (10) will reform, they will be as Iron and Clay, made up of partly strong and partly weak nations, but in the very end (see Rev. 17:12) they will solve their unification problems by giving all of their powers over unto ONE MAN the soon to come Anti-Christ/Beast.

As per the three that are plucked up, I think the Chaldean language here is looking back at the three other Beast Kingdoms named in Dan. chapter 7, and that the number three here is an Ordinal number instead of a Cardinal number. In other words there were three Beasts plucked up before this Fourth Beast comes to power, it's not three of the 10 (which is Europe) that are plucked up. This is why, imho, nowhere else in the bible does it say any of the 10 are done away with. But we always have a Fourth Beast in Revelation also. (JMHO there)

 

[Ronald D Milam]

3. Dan 7:23
Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

The WHOLE EARTH doesn't have to mean the whole earth unless you want to ignore these verses in Dan. 2. It can and does mean the WHOLE EARTH/land being spoken about (Mediterranean Sea Region)

Dan. 2:38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

So, we know Nebuchadnezzar did not rule over ALL MEN everywhere, and we also know that Alexander the Great did not rule over ALL THE EARTH !! So, it is quite apparent that God via Gabriel is speaking about ONLY the Region around the Great Sea (Mediterranean Sea) where these 7 Heads and 10 Horns point towards, not the WHOLE WORLD nor the whole earth !! Heck we know 1/3 of the world is destroyed by an Asteroid (Rev. 8)



Notice Rome covers every square inch of the Mediterranean Sea Coastline? So must the Anti-Christs kingdom, thus when his conquering of Israel and THE MANY (Egypt and all of North Africa) happens as seen in Daniel 11:40-43, we will see that Europe, once they conquer Israel and THE MANY, will look just like the above Rome Beast Kingdom on a map, they will cover ALL THE EARTH that is being spoken of, the 7 Heads and 10 Horns only refers to the Mediterranean Sea region , that's where all of the Beasts arise from, the great sea.

4. Rome is not mentioned. If you remember the text, when it was given to John it was said the beast that was and IS NOT (it wasn’t in John’s time which WAS Rome). It is pass tense. Something to consider. Especially when the physical makeup is part Bear, Lion and Leopard. Where is Rome in these 3 previous kingdoms?

That refers to the Scarlet Colored Beast who is a Demon named Apollyon, he was long ago placed over the Mediterranean Sea Region by Satan (in order to destroy them). Apollyon was over Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia (he was the one in Dan. 10 who resisted Michael for 21 days), Greece and Rome. The Mortal Wound happens to Rome, God then allowed no Beast for nigh 2000 years, there was no Israel to Beast over. So, Apollyon was placed in the Bottomless Pit for all that time. When Israel gets conquered at the 1260 middle of the week event, Apollyon is released via the 1st Woe and thus he's once again a Scarlet Colored Beast over Israel, just like the Dragon is the Beast of Revelation 12 and the Anti-Christ is the Beast of Rev. 13.

We can see that each chapter signifies each Beast via the Crowns. Satan in Rev. chapter 12 is over all of the word thus he's of course over the 7 kingdoms being spoken of here, thus the crowns are on the Heads (the Anti-Christ is one of the 7 Heads). As per the Anti-Christ, he is over Europe (the 10 horns) thus the Crowns are on the 10 horns who freely give him his power. But, in Rev. 17, the Scarlet Colored Beast has NO CROWNS, because Satan is over this world in the Spirit Realm, and Apollyon is not a human being over a kingdom on this earth, thus he has no crowns on this earth, BUT (as God is want to do we still get a great riddle) Apollyon is OF THE SEVEN........And he is an 8th. How so? Well, he was over all 7 Beast Kingdoms as placed there by Satan, and he is the King of the Bottomless Pit (LOL) thus he is an 8th. The Father loves His riddles.

 

[No Pre-TB]

I don't make errors when I talk about Prophesies, I may just understand things you probably don't understand as of yet or maybe have never heard of. When I am espousing a guess I qualify it as such. When I put forth deep truths, listen up. I don't joke around with the holy word of God. It's my calling.

I can prove the Last Beast is a man called the Little Horn. First, lets put down some factoids for a reference.

Dan. 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

All of these Beast Kingdoms started out with one man/one king being that Dominant Ruler !! These Four were indeed Kingdoms where they all passed they Beast Kingdoms onto others. The Little Horn doesn't do that he dies while still the Beast power over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region. Unlike all of the others !!

Dan. 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake(man speaking): I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts,(Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome) they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

So, the Little Horn is SPECIFICALLY called a Beast in verse 11, he's killed and cast into hell just like Rev. 19:20 says, he and the false prophet are cast into hellfire. Then Daniel writes, as for the rest of the Beasts, they all lost dominion but yet they lived on for a time and a season. Babylon was Alexander the Greats home when he died, Persia is Iran, Greece is still a nation as is Italy(Rome). The Last Beast is not Rome, its the Little Horn, but why is it called the Little Horn? Because Horns usually stands for kingdoms in the bible by telling us this is a "Little Horn" God is telling us this ONE MAN will never pass his kingdom on to another man like all of the others did, thus he is diverse from the first (Rome) like verse 24 says !!

Lets look at the Fourth Beast and the 10 Horns AND the Little Horn passage.

Dan. 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast(Rome), dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three(or meaning this is the fourth) of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

There is much to discuss here. First, your pride.
When you say things like: I don't make errors when I talk about Prophesies
You need to humble yourself and repent. We are all human and we all make mistakes constantly in life till the day we die.

Next, though I could go tidbit for tidbit over many things you said that in your eyes, are God's word. But let me focus on one point. You stated:

"I can prove the Last Beast is a man called the Little Horn. First, lets put down some factoids for a reference.
Dan. 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth."

You quote the passage from Dan 7:17 as your expert witness to this fact. But sir, let me show you something in love.
Men are never said to rise from the sea. I challenge you to find scripture that specifically says this.

Now, what I will do is show you what God's word says and you can take it or leave it. It matters not to me. But I hope you do look into it before tossing it away. I come not to debate you or embarrass you. I come to share understand and learn and grow.

There are 2 beasts.

1 type of beasts comes from the sea. Another type comes from the earth.
The passage you quoted comes from the earth.

1 Cor 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Since Adam, all men come from the earth. We are created from earth and God's breathe gives life. Men never comes from the sea.
In Daniel 7:17, the 4 Kings (Men) "arise out of the earth", yet we learn in Dan 7:3, the great beasts rise out of the sea.
3And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another

They rose out of the sea because of the turbulent 4 winds that caused commotion in Dan 7:2 The sea is the nations of the world and the waves, foaming waters are the turbulence of them. They cause the rising and falls of Kingdoms. This is why the angel said in Dan 7:23,

23Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Notice in the characteristic of the kingdom, it devours, it treads down and breaks into pieces. The same image is found verbatim in Dan 7:7 describing the 4th beast.

7a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns

Kingdoms rise out of the sea of the world. But yes, Kingdoms are ruled by Kings, but these Kings do not come from the sea and therefore are not the 4th beast. Kings rise out of the earth.
In the Kingdom of Babylon (First beast of the sea), it's king from the earth was Nebuchadnezzer
In the Kingdom of Persia (Second beast of the sea), its king from the earth was Cyrus
In the kingdom of Greece (Third beast from the sea), its king that rose from the earth was Alexander
and in the kingdom that will rise in the end times (4th Kingdom from the sea), its king will rise from the earth.

When we get to Revelation, there is only 1 beast of the sea and 1 beast of the earth. Think you get the idea.

 

[Earburner]

Israel was never done away with. God promised Abraham an eternal seed.

Israel of FAITH in "the promised one", who came, is counted for that seed, which includes all we who have faith in God through Jesus, the Messiah.
Altogether, WE ARE the Israel of God.
There is NO OTHER Israel in God's mind.

 

[Truth7t7]

Men are never said to rise from the sea. I challenge you to find scripture that specifically says this.

Now, what I will do is show you what God's word says and you can take it or leave it. It matters not to me. But I hope you do look into it before tossing it away. I come not to debate you or embarrass you. I come to share understand and learn and grow.

There are 2 beasts.

1 type of beasts comes from the sea. Another type comes from the earth.
The passage you quoted comes from the earth.

1 Cor 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Since Adam, all men come from the earth. We are created from earth and God's breathe gives life. Men never comes from the sea.
In Daniel 7:17, the 4 Kings (Men) "arise out of the earth", yet we learn in Dan 7:3, the great beasts rise out of the sea.
3And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another

They rose out of the sea because of the turbulent 4 winds that caused commotion in Dan 7:2 The sea is the nations of the world and the waves, foaming waters are the turbulence of them. They cause the rising and falls of Kingdoms. This is why the angel said in Dan 7:23,

23Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Notice in the characteristic of the kingdom, it devours, it treads down and breaks into pieces. The same image is found verbatim in Dan 7:7 describing the 4th beast.

7a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns

Kingdoms rise out of the sea of the world. But yes, Kingdoms are ruled by Kings, but these Kings do not come from the sea and therefore are not the 4th beast. Kings rise out of the earth.
In the Kingdom of Babylon (First beast of the sea), it's king from the earth was Nebuchadnezzer
In the Kingdom of Persia (Second beast of the sea), its king from the earth was Cyrus
In the kingdom of Greece (Third beast from the sea), its king that rose from the earth was Alexander
and in the kingdom that will rise in the end times (4th Kingdom from the sea), its king will rise from the earth.

When we get to Revelation, there is only 1 beast of the sea and 1 beast of the earth. Think you get the idea.

Scripture clearly teaches that sand/sea below represents multitudes if people

Scripture below clearly teaches (The Beast) is a human man with personal pronouns used, He, His, Him, just as my KJV for 410 years has taught

Revelation 13:1-8KJV
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

There is much to discuss here. First, your pride.
When you say things like: I don't make errors when I talk about Prophesies
You need to humble yourself and repent. We are all human and we all make mistakes constantly in life till the day we die.

Your assumption is a non sequitur, maybe you need to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit which is the voice of truth. I didn't say as a youth in Christ I didn't make mistakes/errors, I have learned over 35 years nit to say this is truth/facts and of God until I get the go ahead via the unction of the Holy Spirit. I do that by listening to the holy spirit of truth. That means if He doesn't give me an answer for 20 years then I can only say, well this is my thinking, my thoughts on this etc. etc. But after 35 years, I get answers a lot quicker now because we are in the end times and God wants to reveal much unto us, if we will only lose our pride, so me getting these answers is just the opposite of what you stated, its because I have learned to shed my opinions, and I allow God to tell me, you are wrong Ron, in so doing I have learned how to get access to truths others can't because they are too stubborn with their own ideas.

You let God and me worry about my salvation brother. I don't fall for these "guilt trip" agendas. Carry on.

Next, though I could go tidbit for tidbit over many things you said that in your eyes, are God's word. But let me focus on one point. You stated:

"I can prove the Last Beast is a man called the Little Horn. First, lets put down some factoids for a reference.
Dan. 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth."

You quote the passage from Dan 7:17 as your expert witness to this fact. But sir, let me show you something in love.
Men are never said to rise from the sea. I challenge you to find scripture that specifically says this.

This is weird, you actually do not get that it just means WHERE these 7 Headed Beasts DOMINATE do you? They are not coming out of the actual sea !! WOW. This might actually be short.

You don't even realize you just defeated your own self do you? A self-own guys !!

Dan. 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings(BOOM), which shall arise out of the earth.

So, follow along here, THESE four beasts are MEN (Kings) AND they arose out of these sea. That took me about 5 seconds to figure out. Somebody stop me I'm smokin !!

Now, what I will do is show you what God's word says and you can take it or leave it. It matters not to me. But I hope you do look into it before tossing it away. I come not to debate you or embarrass you. I come to share understand and learn and grow.

There are 2 beasts.

1 type of beasts comes from the sea. Another type comes from the earth.
The passage you quoted comes from the earth.

1 Cor 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Since Adam, all men come from the earth. We are created from earth and God's breathe gives life. Men never comes from the sea.
In Daniel 7:17, the 4 Kings (Men) "arise out of the earth", yet we learn in Dan 7:3, the great beasts rise out of the sea.
3And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another

These two have ZERO to do with what you are saying, (I bet the Pre Trib guys are wanting him to change his name) The Beast/Kings that arise from the Sea are Gentiles and the Beast that arises from the Earth means he's from Israel. This is pretty much prophesy 101 brother.

When we get to Revelation, there is only 1 beast of the sea and 1 beast of the earth. Think you get the idea.

No, these is Satan the Dragon Beast FROM Heaven, the Anti-Christ Beast whom is ONE HEAD from the figuratively 7 Headed Beast of the Sea. Then there is the Scarlet Colored Beast from the Bottomless Pit who is a Demon named Apollyon.

In don't think, me being honest brother, that Prophesy is your bag.

 

[Cassandra]

There is much to discuss here. First, your pride.
When you say things like: I don't make errors when I talk about Prophesies
You need to humble yourself and repent. We are all human and we all make mistakes constantly in life till the day we die.

Next, though I could go tidbit for tidbit over many things you said that in your eyes, are God's word. But let me focus on one point. You stated:

"I can prove the Last Beast is a man called the Little Horn. First, lets put down some factoids for a reference.
Dan. 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth."

You quote the passage from Dan 7:17 as your expert witness to this fact. But sir, let me show you something in love.
Men are never said to rise from the sea. I challenge you to find scripture that specifically says this.

Now, what I will do is show you what God's word says and you can take it or leave it. It matters not to me. But I hope you do look into it before tossing it away. I come not to debate you or embarrass you. I come to share understand and learn and grow.

There are 2 beasts.

1 type of beasts comes from the sea. Another type comes from the earth.
The passage you quoted comes from the earth.

1 Cor 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Since Adam, all men come from the earth. We are created from earth and God's breathe gives life. Men never comes from the sea.
In Daniel 7:17, the 4 Kings (Men) "arise out of the earth", yet we learn in Dan 7:3, the great beasts rise out of the sea.
3And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another

They rose out of the sea because of the turbulent 4 winds that caused commotion in Dan 7:2 The sea is the nations of the world and the waves, foaming waters are the turbulence of them. They cause the rising and falls of Kingdoms. This is why the angel said in Dan 7:23,

23Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Notice in the characteristic of the kingdom, it devours, it treads down and breaks into pieces. The same image is found verbatim in Dan 7:7 describing the 4th beast.

7a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns

Kingdoms rise out of the sea of the world. But yes, Kingdoms are ruled by Kings, but these Kings do not come from the sea and therefore are not the 4th beast. Kings rise out of the earth.
In the Kingdom of Babylon (First beast of the sea), it's king from the earth was Nebuchadnezzer
In the Kingdom of Persia (Second beast of the sea), its king from the earth was Cyrus
In the kingdom of Greece (Third beast from the sea), its king that rose from the earth was Alexander
and in the kingdom that will rise in the end times (4th Kingdom from the sea), its king will rise from the earth.

When we get to Revelation, there is only 1 beast of the sea and 1 beast of the earth. Think you get the idea.

Isn't the 4th beast of Daniel Rome?

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Isn't the 4th beast of Daniel Rome?

Yes, but there is a Little Horn who is also a Beast which makes 5 Beasts overall in Daniel. Then by adding Egypt and Assyria we get the 7 Heads of the book of Revelation. Some people need things EXPRESSLY NUMBERED or mentioned before they can see it. Just like the First Resurrection, some people can only understand it happening all at once, they don't understand that if a football game can have four quarters and still be considered the 1st game of the year, that God can also have a First Resurrection that happens both pre trib and after the Second Coming and label it the Resurrection of the Faithful Righteous Men. Then 1000 years later He could raise up the wicked and call it the Resurrection of the Unfaithful Wicked Men. As a matter of fact God could have a Resurrection every 10 years for the first 100 years of the New Millennium and label them all the First Resurrection, because there are only TWO LABELS, the Resurrection of the Faithful, and the Resurrection of the Unfaithful. But many get stumped by simple things like that.

 

[Oseas]

Revelation 16:v. 13 to 16

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the MOUTH OF THE DRAGON, and out of the MOUTH of the BEAST, and out of the MOUTH of the false prophet - (the TAIL of the DRAGON).

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth-ISRAEL and of the whole world - Gentile nations- , to gather them to the battle of THIS great Day of GOD Almighty - this LORD'S DAY.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.


15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Get ready

OK! We have the symbolism in the scriptures, that you quoted, now please tell us what it looks like, and is, in the reality of this world of our flesh.
You don't know.

It is symbolism for you, not for me, by the way you are SPIRITUALLY placed not in the 7 heads of the red Dragon, neither in his 10 horns, you are EXACTLY in the TAIL of the red Dragon.

 

[Truth7t7]

It is symbolism for you, not for me, by the way you are SPIRITUALLY placed not in the 7 heads of the red Dragon, neither in his 10 horns, you are EXACTLY in the TAIL of the red Dragon.

Stop the personal attacks, it's not necessary