Is the Bible lying ?... Was Jesus?

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pia

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I was expecting this to explode into a hot mess. Its nice to see people getting along for a change..........or did I speak too soon? :eek: God I hope not.
I am with you 100%....We may not all agree, but certainly we should still be tolerant and giving toward one another...I do believe we forget at times that we are called to be a family in God, an extension of Him until He can finally gather us all into His continual presence and His Glorious Kingdom......We shouldn't be like Cain, not loving our brother ( and sister )....
 
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Angelina

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Most Christians I have met, from whichever denomination, has a lot of trouble believing that the Resurrected Jesus, can and does choose to Manifest Himself at times, so I went looking in the Bible....The following is some of what I found...( I can't physically type the entire chapters, so please read them for yourselves )
Matthew 28 : All
Speaks of the women going to the tomb, finding the angels there who tell them He is Risen and to go tell the disciples, saying :" He will go before you into Galilee."
Jesus then comes to them and His final Word to them is this :" I am with you ALWAYS, even till the end of the age ( or world as it says in some translations ).
Mark 16 : All

Reads very similar to the book of Matthew....Mary told the disciples....They didn't believe the women.
Jesus met two men on the road.........They told the disciples.....They didn't believe them.
Mk16:14 In this verse Jesus appears before the 11 and rebukes them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had Risen.

Luke 24 : All
A man who is named Cleopas and another man are on a road, Jesus goes with them, and He ends up having dinner with them, and as He does and breaks the bread, He vanishes before their sight and they suddenly know who had been sharing their time and food with them.
It makes a point of saying that Jesus opened the SCRIPTURES for them...Whenever scripture is referred to, it is talking about the Law and the Prophets. He showed them how He had fulfilled them, it says....
In verse 36......Jesus comes among the disciples and speaks to Thomas:
" Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself...Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bone, as you see I HAVE."
He goes on to tell them they will receive the promised Holy Spirit from the Father..

John 20 and 21 :
Jn:20 is filled with references with Jesus being seen and heard for some time after He had Risen.
Jn20:27....Then Jesus said to Thomas:" Reach your finger here and look at My hands, and reach your hand and put it into My side.
Do not be unbelieving BUT believing."
29) Because you have seen Me, you believe. Blessed are they who have not seen and believed
All these things were before the Day of Pentecost.
Acts 2: 21 And it shall come to pass, that WHOEVER calls upon the name of the Lord, SHALL BE SAVED......

I am, but one of many, who can verify the Truth of those written words. I was blessed to be saved upon calling and witness to both His appearance and the fact that He can be solid, as I was able to lean on Him at a certain time.
Yet I get ridiculed and outright rejected, made fun of, have to endure endless sarcastic remarks, EVEN when people can find the very things I pass on, in their Bibles, it may be written in slightly different language, but it is the same.... He is capable of speaking quite normal, but we have always been able to see, when someone has shown me a scripture, exactly what He's saying.......
So what am I supposed to do with that ????
Am I supposed to say to Him :" Lord this is just too hard, I had better not speak up...Perhaps I should give in to those who reject what you do and say ? Give in to the hurt and discomfort in having so many people, who say they are believers in you, turn on me and basically calling me a liar, for only saying what You said to me ?
Or perhaps I will remember the last words you spoke to me that first night :" Remember ! I am always here, whether you can see Me or not ! With the last words He disappeared from my sight, but I could still hear Him..
John 14:18......"I will not leave you orphans.
I will come to you.".
John 14:21.....They who love Me will be loved by My Father and I will love them and manifest Myself to them."........

WAS HE LYING ?

John 17:3.........And this is eternal Life....That they may KNOW You, the only True God AND Jesus Christ, whom You sent....

The point, as I have been shown so far, is that we have been given the opportunity to have a restored relationship with God, but as yet we cannot stand before Him......
But we can stand before Jesus and He before us, and once we believe with all of our hearts, we can also receive the promise, The Holy Spirit to be ANOTHER Helper.........
Adam walked in the garden in the cool of the day WITH God...
We are offered to LIVE with Him, while here on earth with Jesus and the Holy Spirit ( who are one with the Father ).

Humans may be the only creatures, we are aware of, who can CHOOSE to Love and appreciate God.
Angels may know how to praise Him but LOVE is the very substance of God, which He used when He made man. But it got soiled and mixed up with another substance, which has now been condemned to the flesh, thanks to what Jesus did.
We are now able to stand IN Christ, clean and pure, forgiven and accepted in the Beloved, and invited into fellowship with Him.....In and through His Spirit...

WE LOVE HIM BECAUSE HE FIRST LOVED US !!!!!!!!!

So to those here who think it good sport to have cheap shots at me, bring it on, because I am not running...
I am no teacher nor preacher, but I do have a couple of things to share, which I KNOW to be the total 100% Truth, as well as an invitation to give, that He asked me to give, but not here.

Why should I not tell the Truth ?

There is something uniquely divine about a persons testimony or their encounter with God. A personal relationship may never look like someone else's but it does show how much God loves us and the many ways he engages in our lives. I personally think that as long as we believe what we have experienced, it doesn't really matter what others think. God has shown himself real to many down the centuries, even today because the same God of Abraham is our God, he has not changed. He is the same today, yesterday and forever. Glory!
 
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tabletalk

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I have stood with Him too, but that is another story for me and Him not for anyone else.

If you want to keep God in a box, than in your box He will remain. God is not limited by what He can do, He is limited by what men let Him do.


Just another area of disagreement: I don't think mankind can limit God in any way.
 

mjrhealth

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I don't think mankind can limit God in any way.
Its your will that limits God, when someone says God cant do that, we He cant for you, because He wont go against your will, so those who say God cannot do anything outside teh bible , well they have limited Him to teh bible, and that is there doing not His.
 
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tabletalk

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Its your will that limits God, when someone says God cant do that, we He cant for you, because He wont go against your will, so those who say God cannot do anything outside teh bible , well they have limited Him to teh bible, and that is there doing not His.


Your god is limited. The God I worship is unlimited (the God proclaimed in the Bible).
You believe, worship, and follow a man you call Jesus, a physical object; just like the Catholic Church, which worships a physical object (the bread and wine).
 
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mjrhealth

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Your god is limited. The God I worship is unlimited (the God proclaimed in the Bible).
You believe, worship, and follow a man you call Jesus, a physical object; just like the Catholic Church, which worships a physical object (the bread and wine).
Firing more bullets, you need to check them they appear to be blanks. You really cant help yourself, nothing to do but shoot at people. Never say anything, just attack. There is only one God and no I do not worship a man on this earth as you so proclaim, have you not read about Thomas. when Jesus asked Him to put his fingers in His side, Yes men Limit God, which is we are supposed to say to Him. " not my will but your will be done". The world is in the mess it is in because we dont have enough faith, so you see it is us that limited God , because according to you, no one can see Him so you never will, that is teh limit you have placed on Him.
 
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amadeus

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And when all of the smoke clears, let us all rejoice together in Him giving God all of the glory while taking upon ourselves all of the blame.
 

Marymog

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Most Christians I have met, from whichever denomination, has a lot of trouble believing that the Resurrected Jesus, can and does choose to Manifest Himself at times, so I went looking in the Bible....The following is some of what I found...( I can't physically type the entire chapters, so please read them for yourselves )
Matthew 28 : All
Speaks of the women going to the tomb, finding the angels there who tell them He is Risen and to go tell the disciples, saying :" He will go before you into Galilee."
Jesus then comes to them and His final Word to them is this :" I am with you ALWAYS, even till the end of the age ( or world as it says in some translations ).
Mark 16 : All

Reads very similar to the book of Matthew....Mary told the disciples....They didn't believe the women.
Jesus met two men on the road.........They told the disciples.....They didn't believe them.
Mk16:14 In this verse Jesus appears before the 11 and rebukes them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had Risen.

Luke 24 : All
A man who is named Cleopas and another man are on a road, Jesus goes with them, and He ends up having dinner with them, and as He does and breaks the bread, He vanishes before their sight and they suddenly know who had been sharing their time and food with them.
It makes a point of saying that Jesus opened the SCRIPTURES for them...Whenever scripture is referred to, it is talking about the Law and the Prophets. He showed them how He had fulfilled them, it says....
In verse 36......Jesus comes among the disciples and speaks to Thomas:
" Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself...Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bone, as you see I HAVE."
He goes on to tell them they will receive the promised Holy Spirit from the Father..

John 20 and 21 :
Jn:20 is filled with references with Jesus being seen and heard for some time after He had Risen.
Jn20:27....Then Jesus said to Thomas:" Reach your finger here and look at My hands, and reach your hand and put it into My side.
Do not be unbelieving BUT believing."
29) Because you have seen Me, you believe. Blessed are they who have not seen and believed
All these things were before the Day of Pentecost.
Acts 2: 21 And it shall come to pass, that WHOEVER calls upon the name of the Lord, SHALL BE SAVED......

I am, but one of many, who can verify the Truth of those written words. I was blessed to be saved upon calling and witness to both His appearance and the fact that He can be solid, as I was able to lean on Him at a certain time.
Yet I get ridiculed and outright rejected, made fun of, have to endure endless sarcastic remarks, EVEN when people can find the very things I pass on, in their Bibles, it may be written in slightly different language, but it is the same.... He is capable of speaking quite normal, but we have always been able to see, when someone has shown me a scripture, exactly what He's saying.......
So what am I supposed to do with that ????
Am I supposed to say to Him :" Lord this is just too hard, I had better not speak up...Perhaps I should give in to those who reject what you do and say ? Give in to the hurt and discomfort in having so many people, who say they are believers in you, turn on me and basically calling me a liar, for only saying what You said to me ?
Or perhaps I will remember the last words you spoke to me that first night :" Remember ! I am always here, whether you can see Me or not ! With the last words He disappeared from my sight, but I could still hear Him..
John 14:18......"I will not leave you orphans.
I will come to you.".
John 14:21.....They who love Me will be loved by My Father and I will love them and manifest Myself to them."........

WAS HE LYING ?

John 17:3.........And this is eternal Life....That they may KNOW You, the only True God AND Jesus Christ, whom You sent....

The point, as I have been shown so far, is that we have been given the opportunity to have a restored relationship with God, but as yet we cannot stand before Him......
But we can stand before Jesus and He before us, and once we believe with all of our hearts, we can also receive the promise, The Holy Spirit to be ANOTHER Helper.........
Adam walked in the garden in the cool of the day WITH God...
We are offered to LIVE with Him, while here on earth with Jesus and the Holy Spirit ( who are one with the Father ).

Humans may be the only creatures, we are aware of, who can CHOOSE to Love and appreciate God.
Angels may know how to praise Him but LOVE is the very substance of God, which He used when He made man. But it got soiled and mixed up with another substance, which has now been condemned to the flesh, thanks to what Jesus did.
We are now able to stand IN Christ, clean and pure, forgiven and accepted in the Beloved, and invited into fellowship with Him.....In and through His Spirit...

WE LOVE HIM BECAUSE HE FIRST LOVED US !!!!!!!!!

So to those here who think it good sport to have cheap shots at me, bring it on, because I am not running...
I am no teacher nor preacher, but I do have a couple of things to share, which I KNOW to be the total 100% Truth, as well as an invitation to give, that He asked me to give, but not here.

Why should I not tell the Truth ?
Hi Pia,

Have you asked His permission to share with us these things that you 'KNOW to be the total 100% Truth"?

IHS....Mary
 

amadeus

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Your god is limited. The God I worship is unlimited (the God proclaimed in the Bible).
You believe, worship, and follow a man you call Jesus, a physical object; just like the Catholic Church, which worships a physical object (the bread and wine).

"Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel." Psalm 78:41

God is limited by men, because God gave men authority by His Word and God is bound by His Word. We have the God-given power for our period of time to disobey God. He will not stop us in that disobedience until we have completed our course [our allotted period of time]. All of us who have ever disobeyed God have limited Him. Any one who has ever quenched the Holy Spirit has limited God.
 
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tabletalk

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"Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel." Psalm 78:41

God is limited by men, because God gave men authority by His Word and God is bound by His Word. We have the God-given power for our period of time to disobey God. He will not stop us in that disobedience until we have completed our course [our allotted period of time]. All of us who have ever disobeyed God have limited Him. Any one who has ever quenched the Holy Spirit has limited God.


I appreciate your correction, but these two translations are distinctly different that KJV or NKJV.(I use the NKJV)
ESV: 41."They tested God again and again and provoked the Holy One of Israel"
NASB: 41. "Again and again they tempted God, and pained the Holy One of Israel"

So we have 3 words; limited, provoked, and pained. So far I still think He cannot be limited, but I'll have to get back to you about this.
 
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pia

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There is something uniquely divine about a persons testimony or their encounter with God. A personal relationship may never look like someone else's but it does show how much God loves us and the many ways he engages in our lives. I personally think that as long as we believe what we have experienced, it doesn't really matter what others think. God has shown himself real to many down the centuries, even today because the same God of Abraham is our God, he has not changed. He is the same today, yesterday and forever. Glory!
Amen !
 

tabletalk

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"Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel." Psalm 78:41

God is limited by men, because God gave men authority by His Word and God is bound by His Word. We have the God-given power for our period of time to disobey God. He will not stop us in that disobedience until we have completed our course [our allotted period of time]. All of us who have ever disobeyed God have limited Him. Any one who has ever quenched the Holy Spirit has limited God.


God gives life to the dead.
Dead people cannot obey God.
The only way a person can obey God is after a person is born again (from above, not by a person's will).
Before that, a person is a slave of sin.
The old man (old nature) believes it can limit God. The new creation (born from above) knows God is unlimited.
 

amadeus

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God gives life to the dead.
Dead people cannot obey God.

How dead was Lazarus when Jesus said: "Lazarus come forth!" John 11:43?

The only way a person can obey God is after a person is born again (from above, not by a person's will).
Before that, a person is a slave of sin.
The old man (old nature) believes it can limit God. The new creation (born from above) knows God is unlimited.

What we have are double-minded men as James wrote. We can even after the "new man" is born within us choose to follow the "old man" for the the natural of the old man is still there wanting to regain what he lost when we received Jesus in our heart. John the Baptist was aware of the conflict when he said this:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30 It is the new man in us that needs to increase, while the old man needs to decrease.
God never loses battles, but when we quench the Holy Spirit in us, we limit God and He is not even in the battle. For this reason the apostle Paul wrote:

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

God is unlimited except when we invoke our choice which He gave us and never took away from us. When we quench the Holy Spirit, we are doing just that. We are limiting God. The choice is still ours. It always has been.
 
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tabletalk

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How dead was Lazarus when Jesus said: "Lazarus come forth!" John 11:43?



What we have are double-minded men as James wrote. We can even after the "new man" is born within us choose to follow the "old man" for the the natural of the old man is still there wanting to regain what he lost when we received Jesus in our heart. John the Baptist was aware of the conflict when he said this:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30 It is the new man in us that needs to increase, while the old man needs to decrease.
God never loses battles, but when we quench the Holy Spirit in us, we limit God and He is not even in the battle. For this reason the apostle Paul wrote:

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

God is unlimited except when we invoke our choice which He gave us and never took away from us. When we quench the Holy Spirit, we are doing just that. We are limiting God. The choice is still ours. It always has been.

I said: "Dead people cannot obey God".
You said: "How dead was Lazarus when Jesus said: "Lazarus come forth!"
Lazarus may have already been raised when Jesus made the command.
Do you think Lazarus obeyed God before he was raised from the dead?
Lazarus was deader than a doornail. He didn't obey, or hear, Jesus. But, the Father heard Jesus.

Verse 41..."And Jesus lifted up His eyes and said, “Father, I thank You that You have heard Me. 42. And I know that You always hear Me, but because of the people who are standing by I said this, that they may believe that You sent Me.”
 

amadeus

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I said: "Dead people cannot obey God".
You said: "How dead was Lazarus when Jesus said: "Lazarus come forth!"
Lazarus may have already been raised when Jesus made the command.

We were all dead as I understand it until we met the Master and received Life from Him. We were walking dead men in the eyes of God even though we may have thought we were alive. We had no real idea what Life really was.

Your question on this seems to be whether or not Lazarus was raised before Jesus called him forth. How would we know?


Do you think Lazarus obeyed God before he was raised from the dead?
Lazarus was deader than a doornail. He didn't obey, or hear, Jesus. But, the Father heard Jesus.

Verse 41..."And Jesus lifted up His eyes and said, “Father, I thank You that You have heard Me. 42. And I know that You always hear Me, but because of the people who are standing by I said this, that they may believe that You sent Me.”

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: ..." John 6:44

Why are you wanting to argue this point. I cannot see that we disagree but rather that we only just learning to communicate with one another.

The question in point, I thought was about limiting God.
 
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pia

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ok, you do have access to Biblehub or similar, so that you can just copy/paste though, right?
Biblehub ? No hadn't heard of it...someone else told me of a different one, but I still don't have much luck with those things.. . I rely mostly on my Strong's concordance...also I find that if posts get too long people just won't read them....heck, some of my short posts, have not been read in full, or at least it seems so lol..... Thanks, I will try to google it, an see if I can work with it....I am very computer illiterate .....:)