Is the "eternal fire" of Sodom still burning? - Nope

[ElieG12]

1 Cor. 6:9 Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom.

Rev. 21:8 But as for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and the sexually immoral and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This means the second death.

Psal. 37:9 For evildoers themselves will be cut off,
But those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth.
10 And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more;
And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be.
11 But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.
12 The wicked one is plotting against the righteous one,
And at him he is grinding his teeth.
13 Jehovah himself will laugh at him,
For he certainly sees that his day will come.

 

[St. SteVen]

1 Cor. 6:9 Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom.

Interestingly, that is a judgment against the church.

Do you align yourself with the extortioners who use fear to gain converts?

"Receive the free gift of eternal life. Or if you prefer, you will be incinerated."

/

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic.

Commanded to love God more than we love ourselves?

/

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic.

Commanded to love God more than we love ourselves?

/

 

[ElieG12]

We, Bible students, don't need theologians to tell us what this means:

1 Cor. 6:9 Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom.

Rev. 21:8 But as for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and the sexually immoral and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This means the second death.

Psal. 37:9 For evildoers themselves will be cut off,
But those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth.
10 And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more;
And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be.
11 But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.
12 The wicked one is plotting against the righteous one,
And at him he is grinding his teeth.
13 Jehovah himself will laugh at him,
For he certainly sees that his day will come.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I think that is a terrible interpretation of that passage. Or with the original writing.

What other way would you like it to read? It says what it says…..”many will seek to enter” on their own term, “but will not be able”…..entry is on God’s terms, so there will be no excuses accepted.
God will not alter his word or standards to suit those who might be offended by them.

Few there be that find it? Meaning a sincere search is met with zero results?

Look at the events of the past and tell me when God ever closed his eyes to the disobedience of his people?
Even going back to Noah’s day, tell me what excuses they had to offer to God once the water began falling from the sky?
Noah had been a “preacher of righteousness” for the decades it probably took him to build that enormous structure from scratch with no modern tools or technology….only with the detailed instructions that God gave him. Did he complain that the task was too hard or that he might need some divine help in its construction? No! He was told how to save himself and the children not yet born to him. He had three sons who grew up and married, gaining the assistance he required to complete the mammoth task. So only 8 souls out of that entire crooked generation survived because they ignored Noah’s warning.

We are again in a judgment period, before Christ’s coming to judge mankind, and God has been sounding the warning about his coming “day of vengeance” now for a very long time…..only those who come on board the only “ark” of salvation there is in our day, will survive “the end” that is coming. What did Peter say corresponded to Noah’s ark?

1 Peter 3:18-22…
“For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who had formerly been disobedient when God was patiently waiting in Noah’s day, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.

21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, is also now saving you (not by the removing of the filth of the flesh, but by the request to God for a good conscience), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. 22 He is at God’s right hand, for he went to heaven, and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him.”

Just as these ones were carried through water to safety by following God’s direction, so Christ’s disciples are carried to safety by the waters of their baptism.….which is a dedicated relationship with God, through his mediator, Jesus Christ.

There are “wheat and weeds” growing together in this world and only the wheat are going to be saved….BECAUSE they did as they were told, and removed themselves from “Babylon the great”. (Rev 18:4-5) If we have not identified “Babylon the great” it is because we don’t want to change our minds about what is truth to us. You speak of a “sincere search” but how sincere is it when we are actually searching for a comfortable fit with our own ideas about what is truth? Is God behaving in a way that “we” must approve?

Original Babylon was the springboard for all false religious ideas to spread out into the whole world.
This ‘greater‘ “Babylon” is the devil’s world empire of false religion, catering to all religious tastes and desires…..Christendom is the most reprehensible part of this empire because she alone claims to worship the true God…but like Judaism before her, she has apostatized to become an enemy of the God she claims to serve…dishing up all manner of false religious beliefs, adopted from paganism, and passing them off a “Christian“ doctrines….and currying friendship withe the world by supporting the conflicts and bloodshed of the nations. She is the weeds of Jesus parable….if we have not identified this religious harlot, we will not be moved to abandon her.

As if God is making sport with our souls?

Sport? There is no sport with a God who requires complete obedience to his commands. He is not a sentimental God because justice has nothing to do with sentiment….justice is administered without sentiment…..when mercy is merited, God will be merciful, but where clear directives are ignored or treated as of no consequence, he will have no compunction in acting to complete his purpose.…with us or without us….he would prefer that all would comply with his laws and principles, (2 Peter 3:9) but mankind has never been able to do that. Sin has always gotten in the way, but only because they did not restrain it. We are given the tools to conquer sin, but they are useless unless we implement them.
God does not need us….we need him to keep living……and he alone sets the standard for the life he has gifted to us.

"Oh... you were SO close. Too bad. Maybe next time.
Oh wait, there won't be a next time. Ha, ha ha..."

That is sadly true…there will not be a next time, if we do not get it right, this time.…but God is not laughing.

We have been given ample time to show God who we are, and what is in our hearts. He is sending a judge who can read exactly what is going on inside us…and what controls our thoughts and actions.
This is why there will not be a “next time”….if we have not changed the condition of our hearts to accept the truth when we heard it, being confronted with the final judgment will only force a selfish change of mind, when God has given all of us ample time to have a change of heart.

What did Jesus tell his disciples when he sent them out to preach his message of the kingdom of God?
Matt 10:11-14…
“Into whatever city or village you enter, search out who in it is deserving, and stay there until you leave. 12 When you enter the house, greet the household. 13 If the house is deserving, let the peace you wish it come upon it; but if it is not deserving, let the peace from you return upon you. 14 Wherever anyone does not receive you or listen to your words, on going out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.”

It is the heart response of the hearer that indicates whether they are “sheep or goats”….there is something in the message that strikes a chord, and they want to know more, so his disciples were to stay and teach these “worthy” ones……but if they were turned away, they were not to labor the point, but just to “shake the dust off their feet“ as a way to show that the people were not worthy of their time or attention. They then moved on to the next house (Acts 20:20) in the hope of finding the sheep-like ones….the lost and confused who were humbly searching for the truth. They did not judge the message by the negative things they heard about the messengers…

John 15:18-21….
”If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you. 20 Keep in mind the word I said to you: A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have observed my word, they will also observe yours. 21 But they will do all these things against you on account of my name, because they do not know the One who sent me.”

Again we are in a situation where the world alienated from the true God, does not KNOW him. (John 17:3)
Like it or not….it is a salvation issue.

 

[St. SteVen]

What other way would you like it to read? It says what it says…..”many will seek to enter” on their own term, “but will not be able”…..entry is on God’s terms, so there will be no excuses accepted.
God will not alter his word or standards to suit those who might be offended by them.

The presumption is that it is about the afterlife. And it goes downhill from there. As you have aptly demonstrated. Thanks.

A person would have to have gone mad to love the God you are describing.

/

 

[Aunty Jane]

The presumption is that it is about the afterlife.

Can I ask you what you believe the “afterlife” to be, as I cannot find an “afterlife” mentioned in the scriptures. If Adam was told about an “afterlife”, it might have ended very differently in the garden of Eden that day.

And it goes downhill from there. As you have aptly demonstrated. Thanks.

How does it go downhill to tell the truth? I have no desire to tell anyone what is not true.
Sometimes the truth is not what people want to hear....

A person would have to have gone mad to love the God you are describing.

The God I am describing is the one the Bible speaks about.....there is no other God. I find that his justice is perfect, but it is not administered with sentiment.....and injustice is impossible for the one who created it, to violate it. He abides by his own laws, and he can foresee the outcome of all his actions. Why do you doubt him as if the limited human view can be better than his elevated standpoint?

Do you somehow wish to make God into your version of him? IOW.... do you consider yourself more just than God? Can you tell him how to administer and enforce his own laws?
Just curious.....

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
The presumption is that it is about the afterlife.

Can I ask you what you believe the “afterlife” to be, as I cannot find an “afterlife” mentioned in the scriptures. If Adam was told about an “afterlife”, it might have ended very differently in the garden of Eden that day.

Do you feign ignorance? There is a whole world outside of the Bible. Come out and play.
The word "afterlife" is a common term. A REAL word found in the dictionary.
Defined as: A life or existence believed to follow death.

St. SteVen said:
And it goes downhill from there. As you have aptly demonstrated. Thanks.

How does it go downhill to tell the truth? I have no desire to tell anyone what is not true.
Sometimes the truth is not what people want to hear....

So many Christians gobble up dogma without giving it a second thought.

St. SteVen said:
A person would have to have gone mad to love the God you are describing.

The God I am describing is the one the Bible speaks about.....there is no other God. I find that his justice is perfect, but it is not administered with sentiment.....and injustice is impossible for the one who created it, to violate it. He abides by his own laws, and he can foresee the outcome of all his actions. Why do you doubt him as if the limited human view can be better than his elevated standpoint?

You look at the Bible and see an angry volcano God. That's not what I see.
Most believe in a Janus-faced god that has two sides. Love/Hate
I don't think those two ideas can coexist.

Do you somehow wish to make God into your version of him? IOW.... do you consider yourself more just than God? Can you tell him how to administer and enforce his own laws?
Just curious.....

That's a typical reaction. Who am I to tell God what to do? He can do whatever he wants = he's a tyrant.
I choose to believe that God isn't a tyrant. Which means rejecting the dogma the church gave us.

/

 

[Jack]

Most believe in a Janus-faced god that has two sides. Love/Hate a tyrant.
I choose to believe that God isn't a tyrant. Which means rejecting the dogma the church gave us.

IOW, you reject the Christian Bible. God doesn't have to ask your permission for anything.

Matthew 13:41-42
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

[RedFan]

Who am I to tell God what to do? He can do whatever he wants = he's a tyrant.
I choose to believe that God isn't a tyrant. Which means rejecting the dogma the church gave us.

I suppose He could be a benevolent "tyrant" i.e., He can do whatever He wants (= tyrant by your definition) but He always wants to do what ultimately is best for his subjects. Isn't that a possibility?

 

[St. SteVen]

I suppose He could be a benevolent "tyrant" i.e., He can do whatever He wants (= tyrant by your definition) but He always wants to do what ultimately is best for his subjects. Isn't that a possibility?

Yes. He always wants to do what ultimately is best for his subjects.
However the term "tyrant" carries with it a very negative connotation.
Tyrannosaurus Rex = Terrible Lizard King

/

 

[RedFan]

Yes. He always wants to do what ultimately is best for his subjects.
However the term "tyrant" carries with it a very negative connotation.
Tyrannosaurus Rex = Terrible Lizard King

/

Point taken. So let's not call God a "tyrant" quite yet. Let's call Him a benevolent dictator or something without the negative connotation, until we come face to face with irrefutable evidence that He acts against our best interests.

 

[Aunty Jane]

St. SteVen said:
The presumption is that it is about the afterlife.

Do you feign ignorance? There is a whole world outside of the Bible. Come out and play.
The word "afterlife" is a common term. A REAL word found in the dictionary.
Defined as: A life or existence believed to follow death.

OK….so what is your belief about “life after death”…..because I reject completely the doctrines of Christendom concerning this so called “afterlife”. There is no “life after death” as Christendom teaches it. We are in a race for "life or death"......not "heaven or hell".

There is what I call satan‘s “trinity”……three core beliefs that run through every form of false religion created by God’s adversary….no matter what “religion” or nation practices it.

1) Belief in more than one god, no matter if you squeeze them into one entity so as not to be accused of polytheism. It is in opposition to the God of the Bible who is, and always was “ONE JEHOVAH”. (Deut 6:4)

2) Belief in an immortal soul that survives the death of the body to instantly continue living somewhere else….”the good go to heaven, whilst the wicked are eternally tormented in a burning fire”. This too is in opposition to the God of the Bible who is actually a dictator, because he is our Creator and retains the right to dictate the terms of our existence as he sees fit. Human dictators are usually “tyrants” because of the imperfection that comes with a sinful nature, and the fact that mankind were not designed to exercise power over other humans, because it naturally corrupts them.

There was originally only one King over all intelligent creation…the Creator himself, but because free will was abused, humans were allowed to rule themselves under the authority of the “god” they chose to obey in the garden. (Luke 4: 5-7) They all got what they asked for…..and we learn the lesson by living in the aftermath of their decisions. Precedents are then set for all eternity, so that it can never happen again.

3) Belief in “heaven or hell” as opposite destinations for human souls. There was no such option ever given to mankind. Adam was told he would “die and return to the dust”…no “afterlife“ of any kind was ever offered as a reward or punishment.

The “church” system we inherited in this “time of the end”, was mirrored by the experience of the ancient Jews who, through their constant disobedience, wandered off track and had to be seriously disciplined.
If they wanted to engage in false worship, God would exile them to a mighty nation whose worship he despised, but it was going to be an object lesson for all.
Babylon was a mighty world power, and God allowed his people to be conquered by them and taken away to a distant land, far away from their homeland that was now in ruins. Not all who were taken captive were unfaithful however, as the Bible accounts show.

Daniel and his three companions (in spite of their youth) endured much in Babylon, but stayed faithful to their God without being assimilated into Babylon’s form of worship. God used them as examples in that difficult situation, which sustains our faith even today. (Daniel in the lion’s den….and Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego endured a fiery furnace because of their refusal to bow to the king’s image) All were protected by God because they remained faithful even under such duress. Their faith was not tainted by their surroundings. When he allowed Babylon to be conquered after the 70 years of exile that he prophesied, a remnant of faithful Jews were returned to their homeland.

We too were exiled to a ‘greater’ “Babylon”…..a world where man’s choices dictated the religion they practiced, ably supported by “the god of this world” who has the ability to “blind the minds” of those who are led by him. (2 Cor 4:3-4) The false reality that this false god created, permeates all false worship because it is all based on his lies.…his “trinity”. Yet despite our recorded history in the word of God (protected down to this day, despite many attempts to destroy it) people still fall for the devil’s lies and engage in worship that originated outside of the Bible…..history repeats because human nature does not change….they are still looking for something other than what God has already promised, not seeing the foretold outcome of this important life lesson that involves all humanity. (2 Peter 3:13; Rev 21:2-3)

Just as Eve wanted an immediate gratification of her desire, so too the devil offered mankind an instant judgment upon their death….going immediately to heaven is appealing, but it was never on offer to start with. Man was designed for everlasting life on earth, and the fact that God has chosen some for rulership with his son in heaven does not alter that. His purpose will go ahead with us or without us….(Isa 55:11) so we can choose to side with God or we can, by our chosen beliefs and conduct, side with the devil and go down with him.

 

[Aunty Jane]

So many Christians gobble up dogma without giving it a second thought.

I agree….”dogma” has little to do with Bible truth and the devil has the skills to paint a very dark picture of the true God by presenting him as the enemy of freedom (as he did right at the start with Eve)…..the truth, is the enemy of freedom is the belief that free will is actually “free”….it never was, and its exercise was to dictate our eternal future because our relationship with God is one of a child with a Father…..a very wise father, who has the patience to teach valuable lessons. In those lessons there is pain, because we remember painful experiences and we do not want to repeat them. Discipline has to hurt or it fails to teach anything.

The end really does justify the means in our case, because free will can be misused and it becomes a curse instead of the precious gift it was intended to be. God will restore all things, including that gift.

You look at the Bible and see an angry volcano God.

I see no such God. I see a loving Creator who has the right to exercise his Sovereignty in any way he chooses because I am his child and he loved me enough to carry out his own law of redemption by providing a sacrifice at his own expense, to save me from the perfect justice that all sinful humans deserve….which is eternal death. Since there is no hell of eternal torment, God’s justice means only life or death….that was all that was offered to his chosen nation.

Deut 30:…19-20…
”I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants, 20 by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice, and by sticking to him, for he is your life and by him you will endure a long time in the land that Jehovah swore to give to your forefathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”

Free will give us choices and intelligent humans know that there are consequences to all the choices we make in life…some are minor, but others are major…some are good and some are bad…..but we can choose.
When you make the choice, it should be an informed one, weighing up the options and seeing which is likely to end well. God helps us to make the right choices in harmony with his will because we are his creation, and, like it or not, our future lies in his approval of us or his disapproval. What does he require of us that is too difficult? What does obedience to him result in?….a long and happy life in a new world that he will usher in once he has cleansed this one, the way he cleansed the earth in Noah’s day. Do you like living in this world? Violence and immorality of the worst kind is around every corner, and life is not valued as a gift from the Creator because humans without God make for a miserable and insecure existence for everyone.

That's not what I see.
Most believe in a Janus-faced god that has two sides. Love/Hate
I don't think those two ideas can coexist.

I am sad that this is what you see because this is not who Jehovah is at all.
Good and evil exist as part of the balance of creation….everything has an equal opposite that we take for granted and often these opposites are part of everyday life and we give them little thought.

In the garden of Eden, the one set of equal opposites that God wanted to protect his children from was “the knowledge of good and evil” intimately linked to “love and hate”….not being left to make that choice ever! God would decide what was good and only allow good things to enter his children’s lives….he would keep a knowledge of evil to himself…..but then the devil stepped in and lied to the woman concerning God’s motive in withholding such knowledge from them…..suckering her into thinking that what good they already had (which was filled with God’s abundant gifts) was not enough….she could selfishly have something even better. And that has been the devil’s MO all along.…..painting God as the evil despot who punishes and who demands absolute obedience, against our will……nothing could be further from the truth.

That's a typical reaction. Who am I to tell God what to do? He can do whatever he wants = he's a tyrant.
I choose to believe that God isn't a tyrant. Which means rejecting the dogma the church gave us.

I agree with @RedFan here…he is a “dictator” but a “benevolent” one….look at the life that humans started out with……every desire was catered to in the most beautiful surroundings…..with delicious food provided without labor….other living creatures to enjoy companionship with…...and the prospect of “filling the earth“ with their children and expanding the boundaries of paradise till the whole world resembled the garden of Eden…..I don’t know about you, but I find that prospect very appealing.
If worldly dictators were benevolent instead of despotic, the world would not be such an awful place to live.

Fighting against your own erroneous view of God will not get you anywhere…..he is our absolute Sovereign Ruler and unless you can see past the devil’s false portrayal of him, you will never love the God you think he is……another ‘gotcha’ by satan. You want better because I believe that you don’t know better….

I sincerely hope that you can find him….(Acts 17:24-28)

 

[St. SteVen]

I see no such God. I see a loving Creator who has the right to exercise his Sovereignty in any way he chooses because I am his child and he loved me...

That includes incinerating his enemies, right?
Jesus taught us that to love our enemies is godly behavior.
What should God do with his?
Did he set a lower standard of morality for himself than for us?

/

 

[Jack]

OK….so what is your belief about “life after death”…..because I reject completely the doctrines of Christendom concerning this so called “afterlife”. There is no “life after death” as Christendom teaches it. We are in a race for "life or death"......not "heaven or hell".

There is what I call satan‘s “trinity”……three core beliefs that run through every form of false religion created by God’s adversary….no matter what “religion” or nation practices it.

1) Belief in more than one god, no matter if you squeeze them into one entity so as not to be accused of polytheism. It is in opposition to the God of the Bible who is, and always was “ONE JEHOVAH”. (Deut 6:4)

2) Belief in an immortal soul that survives the death of the body to instantly continue living somewhere else….”the good go to heaven, whilst the wicked are eternally tormented in a burning fire”. This too is in opposition to the God of the Bible who is actually a dictator, because he is our Creator and retains the right to dictate the terms of our existence as he sees fit. Human dictators are usually “tyrants” because of the imperfection that comes with a sinful nature, and the fact that mankind were not designed to exercise power over other humans, because it naturally corrupts them.

There was originally only one King over all intelligent creation…the Creator himself, but because free will was abused, humans were allowed to rule themselves under the authority of the “god” they chose to obey in the garden. (Luke 4: 5-7) They all got what they asked for…..and we learn the lesson by living in the aftermath of their decisions. Precedents are then set for all eternity, so that it can never happen again.

3) Belief in “heaven or hell” as opposite destinations for human souls. There was no such option ever given to mankind. Adam was told he would “die and return to the dust”…no “afterlife“ of any kind was ever offered as a reward or punishment.

The “church” system we inherited in this “time of the end”, was mirrored by the experience of the ancient Jews who, through their constant disobedience, wandered off track and had to be seriously disciplined.
If they wanted to engage in false worship, God would exile them to a mighty nation whose worship he despised, but it was going to be an object lesson for all.
Babylon was a mighty world power, and God allowed his people to be conquered by them and taken away to a distant land, far away from their homeland that was now in ruins. Not all who were taken captive were unfaithful however, as the Bible accounts show.

Daniel and his three companions (in spite of their youth) endured much in Babylon, but stayed faithful to their God without being assimilated into Babylon’s form of worship. God used them as examples in that difficult situation, which sustains our faith even today. (Daniel in the lion’s den….and Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego endured a fiery furnace because of their refusal to bow to the king’s image) All were protected by God because they remained faithful even under such duress. Their faith was not tainted by their surroundings. When he allowed Babylon to be conquered after the 70 years of exile that he prophesied, a remnant of faithful Jews were returned to their homeland.

We too were exiled to a ‘greater’ “Babylon”…..a world where man’s choices dictated the religion they practiced, ably supported by “the god of this world” who has the ability to “blind the minds” of those who are led by him. (2 Cor 4:3-4) The false reality that this false god created, permeates all false worship because it is all based on his lies.…his “trinity”. Yet despite our recorded history in the word of God (protected down to this day, despite many attempts to destroy it) people still fall for the devil’s lies and engage in worship that originated outside of the Bible…..history repeats because human nature does not change….they are still looking for something other than what God has already promised, not seeing the foretold outcome of this important life lesson that involves all humanity. (2 Peter 3:13; Rev 21:2-3)

Just as Eve wanted an immediate gratification of her desire, so too the devil offered mankind an instant judgment upon their death….going immediately to heaven is appealing, but it was never on offer to start with. Man was designed for everlasting life on earth, and the fact that God has chosen some for rulership with his son in heaven does not alter that. His purpose will go ahead with us or without us….(Isa 55:11) so we can choose to side with God or we can, by our chosen beliefs and conduct, side with the devil and go down with him.

NWT Isaiah 44 This is what Jehovah says,The King of Israel and his Repurchaser, Jehovah of armies: ‘I am the first and I am the last.

NWT Rev 1
17 I am the First and the Last, 18 and the living one, and I became dead, but look! I am living forever and ever,

And His Name is Jesus! The first and the last!

 

[TheHC]

That includes incinerating his enemies, right?

No, that’s what dogma teaches…. not the Bible.

 

[Wick Stick]

αἰώνιος is always doubtful in translation.

My first thought is that it is the effect of the fire which is eternal - destruction. But the grammar of the verse doesn't really set up that way. If we translate literally (which is usually better), it would be "the fire of eternity."

If we look at the context, Jude makes reference to the apocryphal book of 1Enoch and some other lost book as though they are Scripture.

Enoch teaches probably the clearest thanatology in all of 1st-century Judaism (chapter 22). But the place of torment there is temporary... a holding place for the wicked dead that ceases to exist at the last judgment. It certainly isn't "eternal" and it's doubtful whether it's "fiery" either.

The idea of a fiery place seems to belong more to Greek mythology (Tartarus), though it finds representation in Revelation and a few other places in the Bible.

Honestly, the best answer is "we don't know." It's an external reference to some other work which is lost to the sands of time.

 

[St. SteVen]

Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.

All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios", the Greek word
mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. See bold below.
This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.

Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Galatians 1:4-5 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21

Aionios, the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)

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