Is the "eternal fire" of Sodom still burning? - Nope
- Thread starter St. SteVen
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Because I see these human errors as theologically irrelevant.
Ask an inerrantist whether Jesus sent his apostles out with sandals and staff (Mark 6:8-9) or without them (Matthew 10:10), and the answer will come back “The gospels must have been describing two different missions.” Ask where the “must have” comes from, and the answer ultimately comes back, in words or substance, that the consistency of Scripture is a given.
Even for the inerrantist, it is not crucial to know whether the disciples were sent out with or without sandals for a particular mission. They don’t care which instruction was given, any more than they care whether the law requires driving on the left or on the right side of the road. But they care deeply that only one instruction was given, for otherwise their world would be as chaotic as a world in which the law allowed driving on both sides of the road. If the texts of two gospels give two different answers to any question―even to the issue of apostolic footwear―they care deeply that one of them be explained away.
It’s a slippery slope thing with them. It’s a Luke 16:10 thing. Most of us would not be scandalized in the least by one of two gospel authors getting a theologically-irrelevant detail wrong. But the inerrantist demands literal historical truth on every detail, however minor, because for him, there aren’t two gospel authors. There is only one, and He cannot err.
I do not see the point in downplaying the human element like this. I expect theological truth from my Bible, not factual accuracy on minute historical details. And I am not scandalized by inaccuracies as to the latter.
So you believe in a Book that's filled with errors. Hmm. You need to look in your mirror. It's not the Bible that's wrong.
That saw cuts both ways. Why would you? You didn't refute the contradictions.
What did you say earlier?
Can you answer the @RedFan questions?
/
I didn't say the Bible is filled with contradictions. YOU did.
Better question: Why are you attacking our Bible and calling yourself Christian? I don't think you have a clue.
Another older topic to visit. Link below.
Zondervan Publishers presents: Peter Enns: Five Views on Biblical Inerrancy
/
Zondervan Publishers presents: Peter Enns: Five Views on Biblical Inerrancy
/
Believeth what?
The statement is not specific. Get it right or you will be toast.
Actually you will be anyway. We all will.
This comes before Mark 16.
Mark 9:49 NIV
Everyone will be salted with fire.
/
3 Resurrections
Active Member
This indicates that ALL eventually experience the consuming fire of God's presence - but not all can survive that experience. Fire either refines or destroys, depending on what the substance is composed of.
I find it very interesting that the particular blessing in Isaiah 33:14-17 which the righteous are to experience is to "dwell with everlasting burnings". Isaiah asks the question: "Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?"
Isaiah's answer to this question is: "He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil; He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure. Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off."
It is only those who are made righteous who are able to dwell directly in the presence of God in heaven, who is called a "consuming fire", with an eternal, constant stream of fire issuing forth from before His throne, as in Daniel 7:10. The souls of the wicked in the judgment are totally destroyed by this stream of fire which represents God's utter holiness. But the righteous with the covering of Christ's holiness imputed to them are able to dwell with God as this Source of "everlasting burnings" , and will be able to delight in that experience for all eternity.
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
Christianity isn't just the Bible. There should be a relationship with God, a religious practice, and a fraternity with others who believe.
The Bible remains important as a source of revelation, but it isn't necessary that every bit of it be regarded as words straight from the mouth of God Himself. That clearly isn't the case for every verse, or even for most verses. Where God directly speaks the Bible tells us so. The rest we should regard as the words of faithful but fallible men.
God of the Bible Whom you reject.
It's referring to Bible choppers, for one.
I'm just a Bible believing Christian. I don't think you have a clue what you are.
No one here is attacking the Bible as uninspired by God, @Jack. We just have a respectful disagreement on whether every sentence is literally true. Some sentences cannot be, because two writers describe the same event differently. Some sentences are metaphors, some are hyperbole.
Do you embrace even the hyperbole as fact? The Bible states that “Asahel was as swift of foot as a wild gazelle” (2 Samuel 2:18). Was he that fast a runner? Do you REALLY say that Usain Bolt would have had no chance against him even with a 10 meter head start?
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
I can't say I've never, but... I actually have rules for interpretation. They are simple:
1) Where the Bible declares, "Thus saith the Lord" (or something similar), we should regard that as God's actual words.
2) Where the author is a recognized prophet, we should give weight to the message there as being directly from God.
3) Where neither of the above apply, we ought not to ascribe it to God as His own words.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Because it is not the physical cities but the people that are suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Cities (buildings and roads) do not give themselves over to fornication, but the citizens of a city most certainly can and do!
3 Resurrections
Active Member
Many people read this phrase as if it meant "the people that are eternally suffering the vengeance of fire".
The "eternal fire" emerges as a constant stream of fire from God's eternal throne (as in Daniel 7:9-10). The wicked are burned up in the judgment by this eternal fire emerging from before God's throne. The emphasis should be on the Source of the fire being eternal - not that those who are judged by it will suffer eternally.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
In Jude it is the people who are the subject of eternal fire and not the source.
3 Resurrections
Active Member
In Jude, it is the fire itself which is eternal - the cities' suffering is not said to be eternal. God's eternal fire in vengeance destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities of the plain. Jude had to be referring to God as the Source of that eternal fire coming in a constant stream from before His throne, since the flames which destroyed all those cities ceased burning after the next day when Abraham viewed that smoking zone from a distance. The eternal fire coming from God's enthroned presence in heaven never ends.
