Is the messiah the father himself in flesh?

[sho]

John 14-16 Jesus said the Holy Spirit distinct from the Father and Son

Do you understand basic English and the meaning of PERSONAL PRONOUNS ?


John 14:16-17
16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

John 15:26-27
26 "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me, 27and you will testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

John 16:5-8
"But now I am going to Him who sent Me; and none of you asks Me, Where are You going?' 6"But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go,I will send Him to you. 8"And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

John 16:13-15
13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14"He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15"All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

Matthew 28:19-20
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name(singular not plural names) of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit

If we read the bible with western thinking we never gonna understand it.

 

[ChristisGod]

If we read the bible with western thinking we never gonna understand it.

Scripture is clear regarding the distinction between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Jesus made that clear in His teachings. He also taught the God is One in Unity and Purpose, yet distinct in Persons. You are the one having difficulty understanding but I'm not sure if you are intentionally misrepresenting Christian beliefs or not, or if you are just uninformed.

hope this helps !!!

 

[101G]

Wrong! The son is not the Father who is not the Spirit and vice versa!

Distinct has to do with nature and all three have one nature- absolute divinity! they are not distinct. three separate persons who are one God.

is Jesus the Spirit in flesh as sho said, Listen, Luke 2:25 "And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him."

Ronal look up the word "consolation" and see what it means?

it's G3874 παράκλησις paraklesis (pa-ra'-klee-sis) n.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

Scripture is clear regarding the distinction between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Jesus made that clear in His teachings.

this is JESUS speaking, Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,"
here the Lord Jesus refere to God as a HE, do you agree, yes or NO?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Ronald Nolette]

is Jesus the Spirit in flesh as sho said, Listen, Luke 2:25 "And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him."

Ronal look up the word "consolation" and see what it means?

it's G3874 παράκλησις paraklesis (pa-ra'-klee-sis) n.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

παράκλησις
Transliteration
paraklēsis παρακαλέω (G3870)
Greek Inflections of παράκλησις παρακλήσει — 7x
παρακλήσεως — 12x
παράκλησιν — 7x
παράκλησις — 3x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: consolation (14x), exhortation (8x), comfort (6x), intreaty (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. a calling near, summons, (esp. for help)
   
   
2. importation, supplication, entreaty
   
   
3. exhortation, admonition, encouragement
   
   
4. consolation, comfort, solace; that which affords comfort or refreshment
   

John 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

The Holy Spirit is another (allos- another of the same kind).

 

[ChristisGod]

dnb Scripture sometimes refers to God in the singular and other times in the plural.

next...........................

 

[101G]

παράκλησις
Transliteration
paraklēsis παρακαλέω (G3870)
Greek Inflections of παράκλησις παρακλήσει — 7x
παρακλήσεως — 12x
παράκλησιν — 7x
παράκλησις — 3x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: consolation (14x), exhortation (8x), comfort (6x), intreaty (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. a calling near, summons, (esp. for help)
   
   
2. importation, supplication, entreaty
   
   
3. exhortation, admonition, encouragement
   
   
4. consolation, comfort, solace; that which affords comfort or refreshment

John 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

The Holy Spirit is another (allos- another of the same kind).

thanks for the reply, God is one KIND, and he's one Person according to our Lord ... Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,"

now knowing that, the G243 allos states, "Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort"

so Ronald, how do one become a "numerical difference" of own's ownself? not in separation, but in "share".

fo he JESUS in "flesh" is the helper, see definition #1. and one who gives comfort is a "COMFORTER"... BINGO, definition #3
G3874 παράκλησις paraklesis (pa-ra'-klee-sis) n.
1. an imploration, entreaty (urgent request (for mercy or help)).
2. an exhortation (urgent counsel, encouragement, or caution).
3. a comfort, solace.
[from G3870]
KJV: comfort, consolation, exhortation, intreaty
Root(s): G3870

now Ronald, Jesus is COMFORTER in flesh here at Luke 2:25 and through his ministry. this is why he said at, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" (there "another" is G243 ALLOS, another of the same one)
John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

and he came on the day of Pentecost


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

dnb Scripture sometimes refers to God in the singular and other times in the plural.

next...........................

error, he Jesus made it clear, HE at the "beginning", is that clear enough?

and Isaiah 44:24 states the same, listen, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

now look up the term "Alone". having no one else present. and if GOD have three person, and he was "alone", that eliminates and other person in the trinity.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[ChristisGod]

believe whatever you want thats up to you if you continue to reject the truth every day on the forum.

 

[101G]

believe whatever you want thats up to you if you continue to reject the truth every day on the forum.

no it's not believe what I want, it's the truth written in the scriptures.

"Alone". having no one else present. that right there just eliminated your other two so-called persons.

and Isaiah 44:24 is scripture. so don't argue with 101G, Argue with the Scriptures, God....

now do you agree with the scriptures? yes or no.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[ChristisGod]

no it's not believe what I want, it's the truth written in the scriptures.

"Alone". having no one else present. that right there just eliminated your other two so-called persons.

and Isaiah 44:24 is scripture. so don't argue with 101G, Argue with the Scriptures, God....

now do you agree with the scriptures? yes or no.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

alone as in no one but God who is TRIUNE- 3 Persons.

 

[101G]

alone as in no one but God who is TRIUNE- 3 Persons.

see you lie when you used the term "BUT". no, he said "I" and I is one PERSON, see I'm at the PERSON(S) in you idol..... (smile). YIKES!

again, argue not with 101G, nor from ignorance, but argue from truth, the scriptures.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Modalism doesn't even teach three forms.
It says one God in two forms. The first form is the invisible form of God, the spirit who is the father is the invisible form of God. The father is sometimes called "holy spirit". The other form is the visible form of God, Yeshua is the visible form of the father for he is flesh. He is the image of God.

One God in two forms, invisible and visible, spirit and flesh.

That is modalism, no wlook up trimodalism. Same thing with another dress added!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

thanks for the reply, God is one KIND, and he's one Person according to our Lord ... Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,"

now knowing that, the G243 allos states, "Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort"

so Ronald, how do one become a "numerical difference" of own's ownself? not in separation, but in "share".

fo he JESUS in "flesh" is the helper, see definition #1. and one who gives comfort is a "COMFORTER"... BINGO, definition #3
G3874 παράκλησις paraklesis (pa-ra'-klee-sis) n.
1. an imploration, entreaty (urgent request (for mercy or help)).
2. an exhortation (urgent counsel, encouragement, or caution).
3. a comfort, solace.
[from G3870]
KJV: comfort, consolation, exhortation, intreaty
Root(s): G3870

now Ronald, Jesus is COMFORTER in flesh here at Luke 2:25 and through his ministry. this is why he said at, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" (there "another" is G243 ALLOS, another of the same one)
John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

and he came on the day of Pentecost


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Your response to kind is a difference without dsistinction. Teh spirit is another of the same kind- divine. That is why Jesus added the word another.

I think even you with this mystical interpretation has to admit that reading the Bible , it clearly speaks of three people being god and yet God is one!

Maybe you should look up that Elohim is plural, Adonai is plural, and God made man as He said "in our image, after our likeness" And man was made in teh image of God, not God and angels which have a different nature- being created beings!

 

[ChristisGod]

looks like sho and 101 are bonified modalists which the church counsels condemned as heresy as do the scriptures. As Paul says in Romans 1 they exchanged the truth of God for a lie.

 

[historyb]

looks like sho and 101 are bonified modalists which the church counsels condemned as heresy as do the scriptures. As Paul says in Romans 1 they exchanged the truth of God for a lie.

Exactly

 

[DNB]

Okay, didn't see that.

If you are closed-minded to the truth, so be it.

Just know that if you do not believe that Jesus is the great I AM, you will die in your sins (John 8:24).

And also my posts/blog just might have the capability of instilling within you a faith in a doctrine that is essential for your salvation; the Deity of Christ.

So, in failing to read my post/blog, you are accountable in that it was presented to you; and you chose not to read it.

I have given you warning from the Lord; so your blood is on your own head.

Non-Sequitur!

 

[DNB]

The context is to their question, Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

Not sure what you are asserting here? But, no, that is not the context, it digressed from his Father (from above), to their father (from below), then to their sins. The immediate context is about them dying in their sins, to which he made the pertinent statement, 'if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins. I am he, means the Messiah, the God ordained saviour. If he's talking about the Father in one context, he clearly denoted that he was sent by Him, and receives all directives and authority from Him, clearly denoting that they are 2 different beings and entities.

Besides, there is not a single trinitarian who ever lived that would call the Son the Father, which seems to be what trinitarians are implying here, for nothing else distinguishes one from the other, but their names. Jesus would've have said, if affirming that he was God, 'he who has seen me, has seen God'. Again, no trinitarian under the sun, would ever call the father the son, and vica versa.

Again, I'm not sure what your point was, I may not have addressed it correctly, but you seem to be implying that Jesus was affirming his deity by such a statement. If so, it doesn't work on any level.

 

[DNB]

Thank you for your comments. I have not studied the Trinity deeply before getting involved in this thread. I have found a very interesting article which I have skimmed but need to study. It traces the different approaches between Western (Latin) and Eastern (Greek) theology on the Trinity in the early centuries. Western was basically the work of Augustine (of Hippo) and considers all action of God the be of the Trinity.
I quote:
He views the Divine Nature as prior to the Personalities. Deus is for him not God the Father, but the Trinity. This was a step of the first importance, safeguarding as it did alike the unity of God and the equality of the Persons in a manner which the Greek system could never do. As we have seen one at least of the Greeks, Didymus, had adopted this standpoint; and it is possible that Augustine may have derived this method of viewing the mystery from him. But to make it the basis for the whole treatment of the doctrine was the work of Augustine’s genius.

He insists that every external operation of God is due to the whole Trinity, and cannot be attributed to one Person alone, save by appropriation (see Holy Ghost). The Greek Fathers had, as we have seen, been led to affirm that the action (energeia) of the Three Persons was one, and one alone. But the doctrine of appropriation was unknown to them and thus the value of this conclusion was obscured by a traditional theology implying the distinct activities of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Link - Trinity

I'm leaving it there now.

Thanks Mungo! That's fine if you are not well-versed in trinitarian theology, therefore, as you said, it's sufficient to leave it here.
But, I must remark, assuming that you can appreciate my position, how extremely esoteric and enigmatic, verging on chaotic (every one response, raises 5 questions)?
Thanks again!

 

[101G]

Your response to kind is a difference without dsistinction. Teh spirit is another of the same kind- divine. That is why Jesus added the word another.

I think even you with this mystical interpretation has to admit that reading the Bible , it clearly speaks of three people being god and yet God is one!

Maybe you should look up that Elohim is plural, Adonai is plural, and God made man as He said "in our image, after our likeness" And man was made in teh image of God, not God and angels which have a different nature- being created beings!

first thanks for the reply, second, you don't believe the Lord Jesus yes, or no?.

no the bible speaks of one God who is one person "diversified". the bible never speaks of three separate persons.

see when the bible clearly say, "I God was Alone". where was the other two? or when the Bible say that he, Jesus alone is the only one with Immoritality, where is the other two? or when the bible say, "I" MADE ALL THINGS, where was the other two?

the terms "Father" and "Son" are not persons, but title of ONE person.

but one day you will see the light.

as said, don't argue with 1012G... argue with the scriptures.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"