Is The Rapture Theory Biblical?

[Davy]

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Thank you for your reply. I trust that God will do all these things in the most perfect way in whatever manner he chooses. God has a way of surprising people in the manner in which he does things. If you read the beginning of my comment again you will see that I was not making any sort of statement about what the text meant. I think it is wise to warn that everyone should always be right with God, be ready to suffer & die for your faith (as many do EVERY day in this world) & be ready for Jesus at any time since no one knows when his last day will be. Be ready.

Yes, I understand what our Lord Jesus meant with what you quoted. And I also know where you got the idea that Jesus will come at "any moment" (from the Pre-trib Rapture theory of man).

You see, our Lord Jesus did not say He will come at 'any moment'.

Instead He gave us the signs of the end leading up to His coming in order to be ready, and those signs must occur first like He revealed in Matthew 24. That is the Bible chapter where you quoted from, i.e., where Jesus gave those signs leading up to His return.

His coming is not to take us, His Church, by surprise. Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5 revealed this point too. Our Lord Jesus revealed this point in the last part of what you quoted from Matthew 24:

Matt 24:43-51
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

In Rev.16:15 on the 6th vial, Jesus said He comes "as a thief", warning His Church on earth. Here in Matthew 24 He commanded us to be on watch, and He gives that 'thief' metaphor. It's about a thief breaking in your home at midnight, and you are not on watch to stop it, but instead are asleep.

In other words, just because no one knows the day or hour of His coming, that does not mean we can't know in what 'watch' He comes. Read the above verse 43 again. If the goodman of the house had known in what 'watch'... the thief would come.

Does that sound like an 'any moment' doctrine? Not at all. It's about us keeping watch on the signs of the end Jesus gave us so we would know in what 'watch' the thief would come.


These below are those who don't watch:

48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
KJV

 

[Wanting to Serve]

I am sorry that you are labeling me. I did not mean to ever indicate that Jesus was coming back without first fulfilling every prophesy. What I was trying to indicate that we all can die at any moment. Therefore lets make sure we are ready. Let's DO what Christ asked us to do and go and make disciples. It seems that arguing about the timing of Jesus coming is just distracting us from doing his work. People are dying and perishing. So arguing about the timing of this or that is really not helpful in any way. In fact it is just one of many distractions from reaching the lost and loving our neighbor.

 

[amadeus]

You are the one making a goading assertion, 'a couple of flimsy scriptures'. At least extend to us the courtesy of providing your evidence of the 'flimsy'.

Not every one who lives for God is able to provide the kind of evidence you seek. For some it is simply written on their hearts one way or the other:

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29

 

[Davy]

I am sorry that you are labeling me. I did not mean to ever indicate that Jesus was coming back without first fulfilling every prophesy. What I was trying to indicate that we all can die at any moment. Therefore lets make sure we are ready. Let's DO what Christ asked us to do and go and make disciples. It seems that arguing about the timing of Jesus coming is just distracting us from doing his work. People are dying and perishing. So arguing about the timing of this or that is really not helpful in any way. In fact it is just one of many distractions from reaching the lost and loving our neighbor.

Let's see, you comment on a thread about the idea of a rapture, you mention the idea of 'any moment' but say you only inferred that about our life ending at any moment so be ready, and then you post Scripture from Matthew 24 where Jesus was warning that no man knows the day or hour of His coming so be ready. If you didn't intend to push an idea involving a rapture, you certainly failed at that.

 

[bbyrd009]

Let's see, you comment on a thread about the idea of a rapture, you mention the idea of 'any moment' but say you only inferred that about our life ending at any moment so be ready, and then you post Scripture from Matthew 24 where Jesus was warning that no man knows the day or hour of His coming so be ready. If you didn't intend to push an idea involving a rapture, you certainly failed at that.

i didn't think so, after all Christ can come to one today, and imo the post reflected that quite well

 

[bbyrd009]

You see, our Lord Jesus did not say He will come at 'any moment'.

He also did not say that He wouldn't either though. I suggest that it is put as "Jesus coming to you" for purposes of seeing and not seeing, as "I will never leave you" suggests. Iow let ppl who are Waiting for Jesus wait, and let those who come to Christ come, just like those who did yesterday, and those who will today.

 

[bbyrd009]

And interpret "pillows" and "soft landings" for yourself!

 

[bbyrd009]

Bible Search: rapture

 

[Wanting to Serve]

Let's see, you comment on a thread about the idea of a rapture, you mention the idea of 'any moment' but say you only inferred that about our life ending at any moment so be ready, and then you post Scripture from Matthew 24 where Jesus was warning that no man knows the day or hour of His coming so be ready. If you didn't intend to push an idea involving a rapture, you certainly failed at that.

Sorry. To tell you the truth I am a home schooling mom during the day and tutor most all night. Obviously I am being way too hasty on the few moment I get on the computer (we all share 1). So I very much apologize. Really in my heart of hearts....I just know that God is good and his Word is perfect. So prophesy will all come true and He will come when He comes. Last time He came none of the educated people got it at all. So I try to concern myself with things that deal with being saved. The bible says that we are to have faith like a child. I do not know many children who argue about rapture or pre-trib post trib items. They are to repent of their sins and totally trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Again, sorry for my haste. I do stand by the fact that we can die at any moment. Take care!!

 

[Dcopymope]

Sorry. To tell you the truth I am a home schooling mom during the day and tutor most all night. Obviously I am being way too hasty on the few moment I get on the computer (we all share 1). So I very much apologize. Really in my heart of hearts....I just know that God is good and his Word is perfect. So prophesy will all come true and He will come when He comes. Last time He came none of the educated people got it at all. So I try to concern myself with things that deal with being saved. The bible says that we are to have faith like a child. I do not know many children who argue about rapture or pre-trib post trib items. They are to repent of their sins and totally trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Again, sorry for my haste. I do stand by the fact that we can die at any moment. Take care!!

But the Bible also says this:

(1 Corinthians 13:9-13) "For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. {10} But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. {11} When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. {12} For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. {13} And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."

So are you saying you are still a child in the faith? To have faith in God entails a lot more than just knowing the basics, that "I am saved by the blood of Jesus". At some point, your faith is supposed to grow beyond that of a child, so that you can actually be of some use to God. A child ain't gonna be able do much for you, and there is no reason for this to be any different with God.

 

[Stranger]

The events of 1 Thess.4:13-17 are the same events of Matt.24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 and 1 Cor.15:51-54; they are all... about the same event of Christ's coming and gathering of His Church.

The 1 Thess.4:13-17 events are about 2 separate groups of saints joined at Christ's second coming:
1. the asleep saints who have already died in Christ, Jesus brings these with Him when He comes
2. the alive saints still on earth when Jesus comes, these are gathered to Jesus and the asleep saints at His coming.

The Matt.24:31 gathering of the saints is about the "asleep" saints Jesus brings with Him; they are gathered from one end of heaven to the other.

The Mark 13:27 gathering of the saints is about the alive saints on earth; they are gathered from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The 1 Thess.4:16 verse declares the same event of the resurrection of the dead on that day that 1 Cor.15:52 does, and it shows the alive saints being "changed" "at the twinkling of an eye" on that day, also showing both Scriptures are of the same time and events.

Zechariah 14 reveals Jesus returning to the Mount of Olives where He ascended to Heaven from, His feet touching down, and bringing all the saints with Him. This means His destination when He comes to gather His Church is not back to Heaven, but to the earth, to Jerusalem. That is where He will rule all nations with "a rod of iron" for the thousand years of Revelation 20, with His elect.

As usual you confuse the Scriptures concerning the Second Coming of Christ with those Scriptures concerning the Rapture. They do not speak to the same event. It is a common error for those who reject the Rapture. I call your method of interpretation the 'brown bag' method. You take all of Scripture and throw it in a brown bag and shake it up, and wella it all says the same thing. Which winds up being whatever you say it means concerning God and salvation.

Stranger

 

[Wanting to Serve]

The verse above refers to childishness is not referring to "faith as a child". Childishness is when we are not serious and are being very careless. Two different implications. The verse I was talking about is having faith "like a child" meaning that you just accept it and go to God as a child would go to their daddy freely without reservation & concern of reciprocation. If a child is hungry or thirsty the child goes right for his daddy and asks. When adults are hungry or thirsty....they are not usually comfortable just freely going up to another adult and asking for food or drink.

It seems that many Christians enjoy debating and proving that others are not as Christian as they are ( or trying to prove that others are not even Christians at all). They forget to make clear what is essential in order to be saved....and which thing are just speculation based on scripture interpretation and absolutely NOT essential to believe to be saved. Debate is interesting. But not at the expense of discouraging a nonbeliever reading the thread.

Titus 3: 8-9 "This saying is trustworthy. And I want you to emphasize these things, so that those who have believed God will take care to devote themselves to good deeds. These things are excellent and profitable for the people. 9But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, arguments, and quarrels about the Law, because these things are pointless and worthless.

First of all, I am not post trib or even think of it ...because I refuse to put God in a box and commit to an exact order of events. Jesus will come when the time is perfect and prophesy has been fulfilled.

My understanding of what it means to be SAVED is that you sincerely repent for your sins and to trust in Jesus as your only means of salvation....like a child. So many times that is what is written and did not list other criteria.

The thief on the cross certainly did not have to go through a bunch of extra questions to make certain on his end times thoughts to ensure his salvation. That is what I meant by faith like a child. Growing in the Lord and not drinking milk anymore is ONLY helpful if it is growing your love for mankind. As in the verse above that you used....charity (love to others) is of the greatest importance so I would love to use my energy to grow in loving others.

SO, though it is interesting to debate, you must realize that non Christians do read these sites and there needs to be some way of being clear that your salvation does NOT depend on your position on end times happenings and that debates could be worthless controversies since I am sure that God will find a way to surprise us as He did everyone the first time He came. Our God is an awesome God. He will do things in whichever way that He sees fit while of course keeping to the scriptures but in a way that NO man knows the hour and not even the angels. Take care.

Side thought...do you ever wonder about "liking a post" and then the person could go back at any time unknown to you and completely edit it to something you totally disagree with, but and then it still shows that you liked it ?? I know I would never catch it because I do not have time to re-read or even first read most posts.

 

[Davy]

Sorry. To tell you the truth I am a home schooling mom during the day and tutor most all night. Obviously I am being way too hasty on the few moment I get on the computer (we all share 1). So I very much apologize. Really in my heart of hearts....I just know that God is good and his Word is perfect. So prophesy will all come true and He will come when He comes. Last time He came none of the educated people got it at all. So I try to concern myself with things that deal with being saved. The bible says that we are to have faith like a child. I do not know many children who argue about rapture or pre-trib post trib items. They are to repent of their sins and totally trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Again, sorry for my haste. I do stand by the fact that we can die at any moment. Take care!!

Good for you, but we as believers are expected to learn and eventually become teachers of The Gospel. But not all are called to teach The Bible (1 Cor.12).

Heb 5:11-14
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
KJV

 

[Wanting to Serve]

Good for you, but we as believers are expected to learn and eventually become teachers of The Gospel. But not all are called to teach The Bible (1 Cor.12).

Heb 5:11-14
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
KJV

 

[Wanting to Serve]

I have been a teacher of the bible for quite some time as I am in my later years.
Proverbs 2:6 "For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding."
So I guess one could wonder why the Lord would then say not to quarrel about certain
When Jesus sent his disciples out into all the world and told them to make disciples what all do you believe that they discussed in having a person be a disciple? Of course all of the bible is useful for teaching etc. But cannot a person simply ask God for wisdom since God gives it so freely.

I guess my curiosity is that if 2 people are asking for wisdom on the end times and these 2 people end up with 2 different ideas about the order of events, do we know for 100% certain that 1 of the persons is not a true Christian....or could it be that God is not revealing it for whatever His reason may be?

I just take exception to people acting like one must be in this camp or that when it comes to end times. I think I am on the wrong web site.
People need to hear the gospel and be encouraged to turn from their sins and live. And then others need to encourage one another and build each other up because as it says: Titus 3: 8-9 "This saying is trustworthy. And I want you to emphasize these things, so that those who have believed God will take care to devote themselves to good deeds. These things are excellent and profitable for the people. 9But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, arguments, and quarrels about the Law, because these things are pointless and worthless."
And yet quarreling and discouraging seems to be what some Christians do best with their energy.
Take care. And thanks for saying "good for me". That made me laugh!!

 

[Davy]

I have been a teacher of the bible for quite some time as I am in my later years.
Proverbs 2:6 "For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding."
So I guess one could wonder why the Lord would then say not to quarrel about certain
When Jesus sent his disciples out into all the world and told them to make disciples what all do you believe that they discussed in having a person be a disciple? Of course all of the bible is useful for teaching etc. But cannot a person simply ask God for wisdom since God gives it so freely.

I guess my curiosity is that if 2 people are asking for wisdom on the end times and these 2 people end up with 2 different ideas about the order of events, do we know for 100% certain that 1 of the persons is not a true Christian....or could it be that God is not revealing it for whatever His reason may be?

I just take exception to people acting like one must be in this camp or that when it comes to end times. I think I am on the wrong web site.
People need to hear the gospel and be encouraged to turn from their sins and live. And then others need to encourage one another and build each other up because as it says: Titus 3: 8-9 "This saying is trustworthy. And I want you to emphasize these things, so that those who have believed God will take care to devote themselves to good deeds. These things are excellent and profitable for the people. 9But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, arguments, and quarrels about the Law, because these things are pointless and worthless."
And yet quarreling and discouraging seems to be what some Christians do best with their energy.
Take care. And thanks for saying "good for me". That made me laugh!!

Does it matter how one believes about the events of the last days prophecies our Lord Jesus and His Apostles gave us, His Church? YES. Can some be blinded to the "times and the seasons" of the end we were warned of? Again YES. Can a believer allow their self to become deceived and spiritually blind because of who they choose to listen to and heed? Again, a BIG YES. And here's the real rub many have a hard time with; will our Heavenly Father and His Son allow us to be deceived if we so choose? YES!

Our Lord Jesus and His Apostles gave us the events to be watching leading up to His return and our gathering to Him. Did you not know that a false one, a pseudo-Christ is coming first to deceive the whole world?

Since our Lord Jesus warned us about that coming false one in His Word, and His Apostles like John and Paul repeated the warning about the last days, how will our Lord Jesus feel do you think if when He returns and He finds we have gone to worship that false one who comes first, in His place? Do you think our Lord Jesus would close the door on you for doing that? That really is the actual matter for those in Christ in the last days during the tribulation when that false one shows up doing great signs and wonders, raining fire down from heaven in the sight of men. If teenage girls went nuts over the Beatles and Elvis, what do you think they'll do when that pseudo-Christ shows up? Will they know it's not our Lord Jesus? Many won't, because of who they have been listening to.

It's quite short in the day, if you know what I mean, and many brethren still don't do their own Bible study line upon line in order to know the "times and the seasons" Paul spoke of in 1 Thessalonians 5. The Church I was raised in didn't preach all The Bible, but only pieces, not covering the endtime prophecies. There's many Churches still like that today, and they are not preparing their congregations for the coming time of great tribulation Jesus warned us about.

 

[Wanting to Serve]

I do appreciate that reply because I totally agree with being ready mentally and spiritually for the end days. Revelation to me is one of the most important books to study each and every year. I agree that watching out for the anti-christ will be paramount so as not to be deceived by this false peace maker who will go back on his word 1/2way through the 7 year peace treaty.
I think we have a lot in common and I am not disagreeing with you on the order of events, I am just not making the exact order a focus in my preaching the gospel (though encouraging studying and praying to God for wisdom).

We need stay prepared for trials like so many of our brothers and sisters through the world. Working with Voice of the Martyrs and Open Door ministries helps you see that so many are having their life and death trials as they have experienced this all now. Many people are losing their lives for Christ now.

I really think we should encourage Christians to prepare physically now for a time when we cannot get food with learning how to eat a minimum of calories each day with foods that do not require refrigeration. Also exercising so that you can make difficult trips and also getting out of all debt asap so you are free to help others more. We are preparing for battle and staying alert.

We need to be prepared to NOT forsake Jesus, no matter if we or our children are being tortured or starving.
Thank you for yours conversation. Take care and may we both find people to show God's love and preach the gospel to today!
Take care!

 

[Stranger]

Davy

Churches don't need to prepare for the Tribulation because they are not going to go through it. They don't need to worry abut a false Christ, because Christ is not going to be on the earth when they see him next.

The Church today awaits the call of Christ to take us out of here which can occur at anytime. You on the other hand cannot yet look for the Second Coming because the Tribulation, as you say, will occur first. Thus no need to look for Christ yet.

Stranger

 

[Wanting to Serve]

Stranger, I think it is good to teach all that is going to happen for people to be prepared for 3 main reasons that I can think of quickly:
1) Jesus told us that in this world we WILL have trouble. So though it may not be the actual anti-christ. It may be pure evil such as Hitler etc.
2) Many Christians are put in a situation where they must renounce their faith or die (Columbine in the US and SO very many Christians who have been imprisoned or put to death all over the world in restricted and hostile countries)
3) Many that attend church may not be saved and then would not even be part of the rapture. I am especially thinking of teens and young adults who are perhaps at church only because of tradition, to please parents, or even just to socialize with other teens or even spouses who are faking it.

Take care! Good conversation.

 

[Stranger]

Stranger, I think it is good to teach all that is going to happen for people to be prepared for 3 main reasons that I can think of quickly:
1) Jesus told us that in this world we WILL have trouble. So though it may not be the actual anti-christ. It may be pure evil such as Hitler etc.
2) Many Christians are put in a situation where they must renounce their faith or die (Columbine in the US and SO very many Christians who have been imprisoned or put to death all over the world in restricted and hostile countries)
3) Many that attend church may not be saved and then would not even be part of the rapture. I am especially thinking of teens and young adults who are perhaps at church only because of tradition, to please parents, or even just to socialize with other teens or even spouses who are faking it.

Take care! Good conversation.

Yes, I agree. I am pre-Trib, but I am not pre-trouble. The antagonism against the Church has intensified immensely throughout the world. And even in the U.S., where our religious freedoms are 'supposed' to be protected, we are feeling it also. I sense a lot of persecution in the not to distant future.

The hatred of the world against the Jews is now the same as the hatred of the world against Christians. I believe these two things are occurring at the same time because it is time for God to fulfill the final 7 years of discipline upon the nation Israel and restore her back to the nation of God she once was. And before this occurs, the Church, I believe, will be taken out. She won't be taken out to avoid persecution. She will be taken out because that which occurs in the 7 year tribulation, which are the judgments of God, she has no part of.

Yourself, and it is a good conversation.

Stranger