Is There Any Hope for the Unsaved Dead?

[ScottA]

God has allotted time for salvation as ones lifetime in the world, as it is written, "today, is the day of salvation."

That being said...did Jesus and the apostles not raise the dead? Did Jesus not say of Lazarus, “Lazarus is dead?" and also say, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up?”

For this reason, I say, "Pray."

 

[quietthinker]

Yes. Men die once and are judged. Just as Jesus only had to die once for sin. But there are many many verses that speak of the eternity of suffering for those who reject the death and physical resurrection of Jesus for their sin.

'eternity of suffering'......does that sound like something the God of Jesus would put in place?

 

[RR144]

But there are many many verses that speak of the eternity of suffering for those who reject the death and physical resurrection of Jesus for their sin.

And what are these "many many verses" you speak of?

 

[RR144]

The requirement of..."IF “

Rom 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

How does a Dead Body Confess?
How does a Dead Heart Believe?

Is that now or later?

Ecc 9:
[5] For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

You appear to believe and teach the Un-Believing dead heart shall have the Reward of Salvation.

What Scripture verifies your teaching?

 

[Aunty Jane]

The answer is NONE!

As it is written:

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Death settles where we spend eternity.

It is apparent that you have no idea what that scripture means....what is the judgment after death?

Since the dead are not conscious, it is after Jesus wakes them up that these ones are judged....not on what they did before their death because they have paid sin's wages. There is no higher penalty under God's law than death. And no punishment involved torture or even incarceration. Christendom's hell is a satanic lie. Jehovah is about love and forgiveness but his patience has limits. His justice will then kick in and mete out the due punishment for disobedience.

Jesus' sacrifice gives the resurrected dead another opportunity to gain knowledge of God and his son....and to bring their lives into harmony with God's will.
All are called from their graves...good and bad. (John 5:28-29) They are then judged by what they do after their resurrection.
Rom 6:7...
"For one who has died has been set free from sin."

 

[Patrick1966]

Yes. Men die once and are judged. Just as Jesus only had to die once for sin. But there are many many verses that speak of the eternity of suffering for those who reject the death and physical resurrection of Jesus for their sin.

I believe those are mis-translations. They have to be. After all...

1 Corinthians 15:22

English Standard Version
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall ALL be made alive.​

 

[Taken]

Is that now or later?

Always according To Gods Order and Way.
# 1 Belief IN your heart.

Reject belief in your Heart.....bodily die IN your sin (ie Against God)
No Hope.

Jesus Sent. You Hear, You believe in God, Believe in Gods Word (Jesus)....
Bodily die IN Belief....Saved THEN....at the Time of your bodily Death, your soul Shall Be Saved.
And:
Bodily Raised AFTER Gods Tribulations Sent Down from Heaven.

While waiting For Your Body TO Die....
You HOPE you continue IN Belief.
You and others HOPE you will not Be Deceived (By Satan, by Evil spirits, by wicked men, TEMPTING you With EnTICING Promises, to keep your life Alive, prolonged, safe, from harm, in peace, Saved by, through, of THEM!)

IF, while waiting for your body TO DIE....you ARE tempted, ARE enticed, DO begin to doubt God, DO reject Him....you have severed your belief....and severed your HOPE of Salvation.

Belief IS All or Nothing ... iS Gods Order and Way
kinda, sorta, eh maybe... is NOT Gods Order or Way

Christ Jesus’ NEW BETTER.....teaching and OFFERING...
* Still #1 Belief IN your Heart.
* voluntary pledge to lay down Your Body unto Death, unto God, By, Through, Of, Crucifying “Your Body.....With Jesus’ Body”.
* Result ? Your Body (according to Gods Order and Way) “is accounted Dead, and Freely Given unto Death, exclusively, Given unto the Christ the Lord God.)
* AT THAT Time...;
The mans soul.......IS Sav-ED
The mans Heart ....IS Circumcision-ED
The SEED of God ....IS Enter-ED into the mans Heart.
The SEED of God ...BIRTHS a mans NEW SPIRT, that can Never Die.
The BIRTH .......IS “Gods Spirit of TRUTH”.....
Gods Spirit of TRUTH.....FEEDS that mans New spirit....Gods TRUTH.
That man...IS NOW....body, soul, spirit....Sanctified (set apart); Sealed (marked unto the Lord God) ; Justified (to be raised up wholly (body, soul, spirit) whole; Can NEVER AGAIN SIN (ie. Stand Against the Lord God in Disbelief)
That man....IS forever WITH the Lord God...
Forever.......The Lord God IS WITH that man.

That man IS CALLED;
Baptized of the Holy Spirit
Saved
Soul Restored
Born Again
Spirit Quickened
Born of God
Converted IN Christ
Christ’s Church
IN Christ
son of God
Christ’s Bride
Disciple of Jesus (ie follower of Jesus/ Gods Word)
Servant of God

^ That man Has a NEW Hope...which IS: diligently listening To and Doing his HEARTS THOUGHTS ...over and above his MINDS THOUGHTS....
Which is That man MAKING his own MIND to be in the likeness AS Christ’s MIND.

The Lord God Shall Raise THAT man ... up whole...Off the face of the Earth
BEFORE Gods Tribulations are Sent Down from Heaven upon the face of the Earth.

AFTER Gods Tribulations That man SHALL return to Earth ... WITH their Lord God....FOR 1,000 years.
* All UN Believing MORTAL men...will been Have Been killed.
* Satan and his following demon spirits will be for 1,000 years Removed from the face of the Earth.

For 1,000 years...
Mortal believing men will repopulate the Earth.
King Christ Jesus will occupy His Kingdom, with His risen “saints” and “His Holy Angels” with rulership over All mortal nations of the earth.

1,000 years shall end...
Satan, and his demons allowed to return to Earth...
Again Satan and his demons shall cunningly Tempt mortal men to Reject God and King Christ Jesus.
Again men Who know not the Truth or who Reject the Truth ... so also Shall they bodily die in their Sin, with NO HOPE of Salvation.

Then is Judgement Day...and the Earth Renewed And Only the Converted with God forever upon the face of the Earth.

You, as does Every individual have FREEWILL To Make Their Own elections....
* Don’t Believe.
* Believe and HOPE you believe on the moment your Body dies, and will Become saved Then.
* Believe AND Declare your Heartful Belief, and be MADE Holy Spirit Baptized and Sanctified right Then.

Now for Some.
Later for others.
Never for others.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

'eternity of suffering'......does that sound like something the God of Jesus would put in place?

Yes because He says He has already ordained it. It just doesn't sound like what your concept of God would do. The real God will.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

And what are these "many many verses" you speak of?

1. The story of Lazarus.
2. REv. 14:9-11
3. Matt. 7:13
4. Matt. 7:21-23
5. Matthew 8:12
6. Matthew 13:42
7. Matthew 13:50
8. Luke 13:28
9. Matthew 25:30
10. Matthew 25:41

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It is apparent that you have no idea what that scripture means....what is the judgment after death?

Since the dead are not conscious, it is after Jesus wakes them up that these ones are judged....not on what they did before their death because they have paid sin's wages. There is no higher penalty under God's law than death. And no punishment involved torture or even incarceration. Christendom's hell is a satanic lie. Jehovah is about love and forgiveness but his patience has limits. His justice will then kick in and mete out the due punishment for disobedience.

Jesus' sacrifice gives the resurrected dead another opportunity to gain knowledge of God and his son....and to bring their lives into harmony with God's will.
All are called from their graves...good and bad. (John 5:28-29) They are then judged by what they do after their resurrection.
Rom 6:7...
"For one who has died has been set free from sin."

Well you err for you know not the Scriptures nor the power of God!

23 The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,

24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:

26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.

27 And last of all the woman died also.

28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not dead but living.

And yes once a person dies their judgment is set- if you knew the Scriptures.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I believe those are mis-translations. They have to be. After all...

1 Corinthians 15:22​

​

English Standard Version​

22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall ALL be made alive.​

Being made alive does not mean being saved.

You can believe they are mistranslations if you wish- that is how the cults get their people to believe lies.

All bodies die. All bodies will be made alive!

REv. 20 shows the righteous dead are made alive and 1,000 years later all the lost will be made alive, reunited with their immortalized bodies to be cast into teh lake of fire. forever.

Being alive and being saved are 2 totally different things.

 

[quietthinker]

Yes because He says He has already ordained it. It just doesn't sound like what your concept of God would do. The real God will.

could you show me from the scripture?....eternity of suffering ie

 

[Earburner]

Is There Any Hope for the Unsaved Dead?​

Thread starterBerean
Start dateSaturday at 9:06 PM
Tagsransom resurrection

Earburner's reply:
THERE IS NO HOPE for the unsaved dead!!
KJV John 3:18, Rom. 8:8-9.

Read your Bible by the power of Christ's Holy Spirit, and stop listening to the wisdom of men through "church-ianity".
1 Cor. 2
[5] That your faith should NOT stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

could you show me from the scripture?....eternity of suffering ie

REv. 13:
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

[quietthinker]

REv. 13:
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

so you think this metaphor is to be understood literally?......and by the way, it's Revelation 14

 

[Earburner]

so you think this metaphor is to be understood literally?......and by the way, it's Revelation 14

Evidently you are in a fog to ask that question. You use the word "literally", as if the MoB is not going to be seen or physically known of except by spiritual meaning and/or spiritual value. Not so!
The MoB is going to be the very economic tool that shall separate the sheep from the goats, of which upon its physical completion in all the world, it shall bring God to the moment of His decision, to end His Age of Grace, by which Jesus shall suddenly be revealed from Heaven, in all His Immortal Glory, in flaming fire. 2 Thes. 1:7-10

 

[quietthinker]

Evidently you are in a fog to ask that question. You use the word "literally", as if the MoB is not going to be seen or physically known of except by spiritual meaning and/or spiritual value. Not so!
The MoB is going to be the very economic tool that shall separate the sheep from the goats, of which upon its physical completion in all the world, it shall bring God to the moment of His decision, to end His Age of Grace, by which Jesus shall suddenly be revealed from Heaven, in all His Immortal Glory, in flaming fire. 2 Thes. 1:7-10

'Age of Grace'...ending?

How long did Noah preach for?....what did he tell the people? Who got him to build a boat? and who was it for if it wasn't for those he was preaching to? The animals came...but men didn't. They were clever in their own eyes.

God knew there was going to be a disaster so he put plans in place to save. Oh, you think it was to destroy all those wicked people? Could it be people messed with the climate just like they messed with animal reproduction and produced Dinosaurs.

You think God is a destroyer? The whole purpose of Jesus was to show God is a rescuer. We destroy and blame God for it.

Could it be their 'fiddling' was about to result in self destruction and God was providing a rescue?
Could it be that Grace has been turned by the enemy as a tool and an attempt to destroy God's credibility?

Could it be that when God says, you will surely die, we interpret that to mean living forever in torment?

Prediction does not mean causation.

I can predict you will be dead in a hundred years with absolute accuracy but does that mean I caused your death?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Well you err for you know not the Scriptures nor the power of God!

Well, I will allow Christ to be the judge of that.....remember Matthew 7:21-23? Its the ones who are so sure that they could not possibly be failing to 'do the will of the Father', that are the first to be rejected. Who is it that Jesus never knew? He will let us know.

Jesus told the self-righteous chief priests and religious elders at Jerusalem: “The tax collectors and the harlots are going ahead of you into the kingdom of God.”
But they did not enter into the Kingdom as greedy, extortionate tax collectors or as harlots, did they? Paul says: “Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom. And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean, but you have been sanctified, but you have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.” (1 Cor 6:9-11)

The churches are rife with thieves, gays, drunkards, greedy people, revilers and adulterers.....they have not been "washed clean" because they are still practicing those things.....and their Pastors are reluctant to bring them to account.....I wonder why? Nothing to do with their income or anything....? It is their job to keep the congregation spiritually and morally clean. (1 Cor 5:9-13)
Slack shepherds will render an account.

23 The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,

24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:

26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.

27 And last of all the woman died also.

28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not dead but living.

And yes once a person dies their judgment is set- if you knew the Scriptures.

What is this parable all about?.......the resurrection. The Sadducees didn't believe in it.
Brother-in-law marriage was an obligation among the Jews so that when a man died childless, (to protect inheritance rights) the sister in law that he took as a wife was then able to have a child by proxy for her dead husband.

In the parable, all seven brothers had her as a wife, but since all died childless....who would she be married to in the resurrection, which the Pharisees believed was on earth, not heaven.
What was Jesus' response? "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."

How are the resurrected ones "like the angels of heaven"? For the elect, raised to life in heaven, these will give up their fleshly bodies and become like the angels....transformed into spirit creatures, who do not marry and reproduce.....
But for those resurrected back to the earth, apparently these will not marry and reproduce either....why? Death is the end of a marriage according to Paul. (Rom 7:2-3)
Because God's first command to Adam and his wife was to "fill the earth and subdue it", the command to have children was to "fill the earth" but it was not to be 'overfilled'.......it has been estimated that all who have lived and died down through history are roughly the equivalent number of those alive on earth today. Since the majority of those alive at "the end" will perish, those who come back in the resurrection may well fill the earth perfectly.
Children will perhaps be born to Armageddon survivors, for a time, but Jesus was specific that, in the resurrection there would be no marriage.
Would this mean that humans could not show love and affection for one another? Not at all.....love is God's most dominant quality and Jesus has been with his Father in heaven for eons. The abiding love they have for one another is expressed in the Bible.....so the most important kinds of love will fill the "new earth" as it was intended to. (2 Pet 3:13) Its just eros that will be limited, not agape.

All bodies die. All bodies will be made alive!

That is clearly not true. Not all are granted life because God has consigned some to "Gehenna"....nothing alive ever went into gehenna. It was a place to dispose of garbage.....permanently. We do not have an immortal soul.....that is a satanic lie. Souls die. (Ezekiel 18:4)
Souls are resurrected to resume life in the paradise that God first gave to Adam and his wife.....the life that was lost is restored, thanks to Jesus' sacrifice.

REv. 20 shows the righteous dead are made alive and 1,000 years later all the lost will be made alive, reunited with their immortalized bodies to be cast into teh lake of fire. forever.

Where does Rev 20 even suggest such a thing? The lost reunited with their immortalized bodies to be cast into the lake of fire???? Are you serious?
Can you tell me why God would do such a thing? Immortality is a gift granted only to the righteous......the wicked are not resurrected so their "everlasting punishment" is everlasting death....is God some kind of fiend that he should take pleasure in the eternal punishment of those from whom he can simply withdraw the gift of life? What is the purpose of punishment for its own sake? Where will I find such a punishment in the laws of God? Where is the justice?

Being alive and being saved are 2 totally different things.

We will all find that out soon enough I believe....

 

[Earburner]

'Age of Grace'...ending?

How long did Noah preach for?....what did he tell the people? Who got him to build a boat? and who was it for if it wasn't for those he was preaching to? The animals came...but men didn't. They were clever in their own eyes.

God knew there was going to be a disaster so he put plans in place to save. Oh, you think it was to destroy all those wicked people? Could it be people messed with the climate just like they messed with animal reproduction and produced Dinosaurs.

You think God is a destroyer? The whole purpose of Jesus was to show God is a rescuer. We destroy and blame God for it.

Could it be their 'fiddling' was about to result in self destruction and God was providing a rescue?
Could it be that Grace has been turned by the enemy as a tool and an attempt to destroy God's credibility?

Could it be that when God says, you will surely die, we interpret that to mean living forever in torment?

Prediction does not mean causation.

I can predict you will be dead in a hundred years with absolute accuracy but does that mean I caused your death?

God does give his own answer to all your suppositions and questions Gen. 6
[5] And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
[6] And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
[7] And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
[8] But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
[9] These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

1 Peter 3
[18] For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
[19] By which also he went and preached [through Noah] unto the spirits [people] in prison [the prison house of their bodies of sin, because there was no Law];
[20] Which sometime were disobedient, WHEN once the longsuffering of GOD WAITED in the days of Noah, WHILE the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
[21] The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Unfortunately many have a religious understanding of 1 Peter 3:18-21.
Christ, in the form of Holy Spirit, is who it was that was preaching through Noah before the flood.

The Age of God's Grace for this world began on Pentecost and is still ongoing, until the Father alone decides that the Age of HIS Grace through Christ shall end.

Mat. 24
[35] Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
[36] But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
[37] But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

so you think this metaphor is to be understood literally?......and by the way, it's Revelation 14

It is not a metaphor, it is a pronouncement made by an angel doing a global tour.

there is nothing in the construct or grammar to even vaguely hint it is a metaphor.

But for argument sake what do you think it is a metaphor for and what evidence do you present biblically to support that?