Israel is the Church

[Dave L]

I don't feel like writing that merry-go-round anymore.

The second person of the Trinity became flesh, not was flesh.

You are confusing the eternal Son of God, second person of the Trinity with the incarnate Son of man. Simply put, God became incarnate in the human body and soul of the man born of Mary, called by his name, Jesus Christ, who spoke in the second person of the Trinity as the eternal Son of God.

 

[CoreIssue]

The second person of the Trinity is not the son of God. He has no father or mother.

 

[Dave L]

The second person of the Trinity is not the son of God. He has no father or mother.

Eternally begotten of the Father. Christianity 101.

 

[ScottA]

Trying to collect where the questions are instead of rambling. Not by any means saying you are wrong or arguing a point but presenting questions.

1) reference to Hebrews 12:23
[23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

2) you say the OT saints are the dead in Christ while we are Spirit (the alive in Christ). Yet the promise was the Spirit...the supernatural birth...a seed that continues which is Christ.
Colossians 3:2-3 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. [3] For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Matthew 3:9-12
[9] And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. [10] And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. [11] I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: [12] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. God did and was always going to which is the very reason the stones would have cried out if He had held His peace.

The promise of children made to Abraham not through or by flesh but by the supernatural: GOD. John 14:26-27
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. [27] Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

...stones raised up as Children of the promise unto Abraham.

Luke 5:34
[34] And he said unto them, Can ye make the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them?

The New lump: 1 Corinthians 5:5-7
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. [6] Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? [7] Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Spirit Romans 11:16
[16] For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy : and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

^ until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in...in to what? Don’t understand how is a new lump + Gentiles or a new lump plus Israel when the word said they became One the separation torn.

You have thrown a lot into the mix there.

The promises of God given to Abraham the father of Israel (the chosen) was that He would be a blessing to "all nations" not just Israel. But the chosen nation of Israel in services to God lit the way ("as a light unto the gentiles"). Which, for a time, put all nations against Israel. But in the end the promise to Abraham to be a blessing to all nations, after Christ came to save Israel, He then has come to save us...the gentiles, also. So, no more are we against the chosen, but One with them, in Christ.

 

[Waiting on him]

When Christ abolished circumcision, nothing remained to make one a physical Jew or physical member of Israel. The last generation died off in around AD 70. Mainly in the destruction of Jerusalem.

Very true, the Jew has had no way to atone for his sin now for a little over 2000 years

 

[CoreIssue]

Very true, the Jew has had no way to atone for his sin now for a little over 2000 years

A Jew can be saved the same way the Gentile is.

 

[Waiting on him]

A Jew can be saved the same way the Gentile is.

Agreed had God not blinded them.

 

[CoreIssue]

Agreed had God not blinded them.

Reading all the verses in I see more as they hardened their hearts and closing minds got stop trying to persuade them to be different.

God just doesn't deliberately cause someone to have no hope of salvation. They have to do it to themselves

 

[Waiting on him]

Reading all the verses in I see more as they hardened their hearts and closing minds got stop trying to persuade them to be different.

God just doesn't deliberately cause someone to have no hope of salvation. They have to do it to themselves

I believe they’ll all be saved through our mercy, but I’ll have to wait and see

 

[CoreIssue]

I believe they’ll all be saved through our mercy, but I’ll have to wait and see

Our mercy?

 

[Waiting on him]

Our mercy?

Romans 11:31 KJV
[31] Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

Tecarta BibleSeems the more I read nowadays the less absolute I become. But it’s there for some reason?

 

[CoreIssue]

Romans 11:31 KJV
[31] Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

Tecarta BibleSeems the more I read nowadays the less absolute I become. But it’s there for some reason?

First of all, another problem with the archaic KJV language.

31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you.

Is talking about them receiving the same mercy from God we have received.

Reset your Tecarta Bible To NIV and see if you get better understanding.

 

[Waiting on him]

First of all, another problem with the archaic KJV language.

31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you.

Is talking about them receiving the same mercy from God we have received.

Reset your Tecarta Bible To NIV and see if you get better understanding.

Why would God allow his people to have an fallible book?

 

[Waiting on him]

You have thrown a lot into the mix there.

The promises of God given to Abraham the father of Israel (the chosen) was that He would be a blessing to "all nations" not just Israel. But the chosen nation of Israel in services to God lit the way ("as a light unto the gentiles"). Which, for a time, put all nations against Israel. But in the end the promise to Abraham to be a blessing to all nations, after Christ came to save Israel, He then has come to save us...the gentiles, also. So, no more are we against the chosen, but One with them, in Christ.

@ScottA do you read the NIV

 

[CoreIssue]

Why would God allow his people to have an fallible book?

Why did he allow people to have books like the Catholic Vulgate?

Why did he allow them at one time to declare possession of the Bible illegal for anyone but priests?

Why did he allow the Inquisition?

Simple answer is personal responsibility. Roman emperors protected power by doing what they always did. Absorbing new religions into their system in the college of pontiffs.

Then Constantine declared at the official religion of Rome. And only a few challenged and were persecuted for it.

Look at the groups that fled Catholicism in the Church of England to the United States. Groups like Mennonites, Amish, Quakers, Puritans and nondenominational.

 

[Waiting on him]

Why did he allow people to have books like the Catholic Vulgate?

Why did he allow them at one time to declare possession of the Bible illegal for anyone but priests?

Why did he allow the Inquisition?

Simple answer is personal responsibility. Roman emperors protected power by doing what they always did. Absorbing new religions into their system in the college of pontiffs.

Then Constantine declared at the official religion of Rome. And only a few challenged and were persecuted for it.

Look at the groups that fled Catholicism in the Church of England to the United States. Groups like Mennonites, Amish, Quakers, Puritans and nondenominational.

CI I’ve been to almost every Protestant denomination there is, and I don’t believe I’ve ever heard anyone say the KJV is an unreliable source?

 

[ScottA]

@ScottA do you read the NIV

No, my wife does. I started with the KJV, now have a NKJV.

 

[CoreIssue]

CI I’ve been to almost every Protestant denomination there is, and I don’t believe I’ve ever heard anyone say the KJV is an unreliable source?

Well, you need to study what scholars and linguists say and compare the versions.

Last I looked the KJV have fallen to third place and the NIV to first.

John Ankerberg Show (KJV vs New Translations) - YouTube

 

[Waiting on him]

Well, you need to study what scholars and linguists say and compare the versions.

Last I looked the KJV have fallen to third place and the NIV to first.

John Ankerberg Show (KJV vs New Translations) - YouTube

When I get the time I’ll look into it.
Thanks

 

[Waiting on him]

No, my wife does. I started with the KJV, now have a NKJV.

Thanks