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Featured Israel is the Church

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Dave L, Mar 13, 2019.

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  1. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    It seems from Scripture there clearly is a future for Israel.
     
  2. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    No, sorry, that is a popular belief and translation of scripture, but incorrect.

    The timing of the so called "rapture", as Paul explained, is "each in his own order", not as a mass event.

    So too is the tribulation, except the time of great tribulation which came upon Christ, rather than men. That is when He saved Israel, who became "the dead in Christ." They are with Him in His acts of the church, in tears.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019 at 11:03 AM
  3. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 3:10
    "And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."
     
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  4. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    How can you say that the Rapture is not a mass event when the Bible says the EXACT OPPOSITE? Do you see how spiritualizing leads you to serious error? "Each in his own order" applies to the sequential phases of the first resurrection, similar to a Hebrew harvest:

    1. Christ -- the first fruits

    2. The Resurrection/Rapture -- the main harvest (mass event)

    3. The resurrection of Tribulation saints -- the gleanings
     
  5. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    No...but it is obvious that you have a prejudice against the Spirit.

    On the contrary, the bible does not say the opposite.
     
  6. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    When Christ abolished circumcision, nothing remained to make one a physical Jew or physical member of Israel. The last generation died off in around AD 70. Mainly in the destruction of Jerusalem.
     
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  7. Mjh29

    Mjh29 Well-Known Member

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    I would assume this is what is meant when the Scriptures say that "Not all that are of Israel are Israel."
     
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  8. tzcho2

    tzcho2 Active Member

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    Wow, you can't even make this stuff up! oh lol! ...you just did.
     
  9. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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  10. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    No clue what you mean by a "BROKEN OFF BELIEVER".

    People do not Begin their NATURAL LIFE, IN BELIEF.

    People BY their OWN Power, can believe, stop believing, say they believe, stop believing, continually.

    That happened to MANY OT men.

    OT men that Believed and REMAINED in belief, became "saints".

    OT men that AGREED "by their word TO GOD to BELIEVE" and then Stopped BELIEVING, are the BROKE OFF BRANCH ~ and their
    Descendants (for the most part) followed suit of their parents, being a BROKEN OFF BRANCH.
    The REMAING BRANCH BECAME the ELECT ~ ISRAEL ~ Gods CHOSEN ~ Gods People.

    Gentiles (for the most part) WERE NOT INCLUDED with the portion of the ORGINAL BRANCH.

    It was AFTER Christ's ARRIVAL, and Christ SENDING the Gentiles a Prophet to teach them ABOUT Christ, ABOUT God;
    THAT
    Gentiles Began being "GRAFTED" into Gods BRANCH of People.

    A Gentiles "GRAFTING" is solely BY and THROUGH Christ, and those Grafted IN, are Christ's people, identified as members of Christ's Church.

    Christ's People Become a Branch Grafted INTO Gods People. Christ's People REMAIN "IN" Christ, by the Power of the Holy Spirit, not a mans own power.

    John 17
    [9] I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
     
  11. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Trying to collect where the questions are instead of rambling. Not by any means saying you are wrong or arguing a point but presenting questions.

    1) reference to Hebrews 12:23
    [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

    2) you say the OT saints are the dead in Christ while we are Spirit (the alive in Christ). Yet the promise was the Spirit...the supernatural birth...a seed that continues which is Christ.
    Colossians 3:2-3 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. [3] For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

    Matthew 3:9-12
    [9] And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. [10] And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. [11] I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: [12] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

    God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. God did and was always going to which is the very reason the stones would have cried out if He had held His peace.

    The promise of children made to Abraham not through or by flesh but by the supernatural: GOD. John 14:26-27
    [26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. [27] Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

    ...stones raised up as Children of the promise unto Abraham.

    Luke 5:34
    [34] And he said unto them, Can ye make the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them?

    The New lump: 1 Corinthians 5:5-7
    To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. [6] Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? [7] Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

    Spirit Romans 11:16
    [16] For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy : and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

    ^ until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in...in to what? Don’t understand how is a new lump + Gentiles or a new lump plus Israel when the word said they became One the separation torn.
     
  12. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    How can the broken off be Israel if God grafts them into Israel if they believe?
     
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  13. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    You did not understand grafting.

    If a branch of a tree is broken off or removed from one place tree it could be grafted back in another. Never cease to be a native branch of the tree. It was just relocated.


    Or if a branch is removed from a sickly part of the tree and moved to a healthy part of the tree.

    Or if a unhealthy branch is removed and made healthy it can be put back.

    The branch of a Olive tree does not cease to all of when removed.

    The branch of the wild olive grafted into domesticated does not become domesticated. It shares in the sap of the domesticated tree and still bears wild olive tree fruit.

    Maybe it takes a farmer to truly understand this.
     
  14. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    It’s a good question.
     
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  15. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    If Jesus is Israel, how can the broken off who think he is in hell right now be Israel?
     
  16. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is not Israel.
     
  17. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    “Listen to me, you coastlands! Pay attention, you people who live far away! The LORD summoned me from birth; he commissioned me when my mother brought me into the world. He made my mouth like a sharp sword, he hid me in the hollow of his hand; he made me like a sharpened arrow, he hid me in his quiver. He said to me, “You are my servant, Israel, through whom I will reveal my splendor.”” (Isaiah 49:1–3) (NET)

    When Israel was a child, then I loved him, And called my son out of Egypt.” (Hosea 11:1)

    Then he [Joseph] got up, took the child and his mother during the night, and went to Egypt. He stayed there until Herod died. In this way what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet was fulfilled: “I called my Son out of Egypt.”” (Matthew 2:14–15)

    When Jesus says that he is the true vine in John 15, he is making an explicit connection to Israel being called a failed vine in Isaiah 5.
     
  18. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Israel and Jesus are two distinctly different people.

    Jesus did not exist until the incarnation.

    You keep trying to eliminate Israel from existence or replace it.
     
  19. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is God who has no beginning or end.
     
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  20. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    I don't feel like writing that merry-go-round anymore.

    The second person of the Trinity became flesh, not was flesh.
     
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