It is not in the bible.....sola scripture

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amadeus

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@Marymog

Read the verses posted below and then tell me what is wrong with your understanding:

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" II Cor 6:14

"The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD." Hosea 1:2

"For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed." Malachi 3:6

 

Marymog

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@Marymog

Read the verses posted below and then tell me what is wrong with your understanding:
"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" II Cor 6:14
"The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD." Hosea 1:2
"For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed." Malachi 3:6
Amadeus,

I have a novel idea I would love to try with you. Answer my question first and I will answer yours (its' called a conversation):

According to YOUR THEORY once God has said yea to me and nay to you OR nay to me and yea to you on any of those subjects I mentioned we are both right!! How are we both right???

Mary
 

amadeus

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Amadeus,

I have a novel idea I would love to try with you. Answer my question first and I will answer yours (its' called a conversation):

According to YOUR THEORY once God has said yea to me and nay to you OR nay to me and yea to you on any of those subjects I mentioned we are both right!! How are we both right???

Mary
So long as you call my beliefs a theory, I have no answers for you. You want to belittle what others believe because it does not fit your understanding then so be it. When you change your tune, then I will consider your "novel idea". Would it be OK for me to call what Catholics believe a theory?
 
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Marymog

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So long as you call my beliefs a theory, I have no answers for you. You want to belittle what others believe because it does not fit your understanding then so be it. When you change your tune, then I will consider your "novel idea". Would it be OK for me to call what Catholics believe a theory?
Yes, it would be ok to call what Catholics believe a theory.

I didn't think you were serious about having a CONVERSATION.

Once the hard and unanswerable questions are asked of you, you make it sound like it is my fault that you are leaving the conversation. Typical men.

Theory defined: a set of principles on which the practice of an activity is based. Your belief and RCC belief fits this
 

amadeus

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Yes, it would be ok to call what Catholics believe a theory.

I didn't think you were serious about having a CONVERSATION.

Once the hard and unanswerable questions are asked of you, you make it sound like it is my fault that you are leaving the conversation. Typical men.

Theory defined: a set of principles on which the practice of an activity is based. Your belief and RCC belief fits this
I did answer every question you put to me. I cannot help that you did not understand my answers. For me a theory is something based on scientific evidence, but insufficient to call it a fact. That was what I learned in science courses more than 40 years ago.

While I understand that people may use this other definition which you cited, I was really not understanding your meaning. But given that definition I have no further objections to your usage. To me as I understood it with regard to a person's beliefs about God, it seemed to be derogatory. I see that I was wrong. I apologize.
 
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amadeus

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Amadeus,

I have a novel idea I would love to try with you. Answer my question first and I will answer yours (its' called a conversation):

According to YOUR THEORY once God has said yea to me and nay to you OR nay to me and yea to you on any of those subjects I mentioned we are both right!! How are we both right???

Mary
The verses I cited in post #1581 were really addressing your question. How could Hosea be right to marry a prostitute when Paul's writing says not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers. Both writers are accepted as men of God. Both of them were right, are they not? If not, why not?
 

Marymog

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The verses I cited in post #1581 were really addressing your question. How could Hosea be right to marry a prostitute when Paul's writing says not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers. Both writers are accepted as men of God. Both of them were right, are they not? If not, why not?
Hi Amadeus,

To be "unequally yoked with unbelievers" means don't marry (in this case Gomer) someone who doesn't believe in God.

Are you saying that Gomer was an unbeliever? I don't see that anywhere in scripture. Do you?

As you know Gomer left Hosea at God's command and Hosea brought her back. Maybe Hosea’s marriage to Gomer was an image of God’s relationship with Israel since Israel often betrayed its spousal covenant with God by worshipping the false pagan gods. Maybe, just maybe, Gomer's unfaithfulness and Hosea's forgiveness symbolized God's forgiving love for unfaithful Israel?

My two cents worth.....Mary
 

Marymog

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other pertinent reflections will be had considering what is a sin for you might not be a sin for me
You did it anyway,word twisting and verbal gymnastics, to make yourself feel better about your theory. On top of that, you didn't answer the question. How sad.

Sin is not relative. God defines sin. Not you, not me nor any man.

Your statement makes ZERO sense.

IHS...Mary
 

bbyrd009

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it appears to me right now that it is Law that defines sin, and we who make the laws, just as "what you bless there will be blessed here, and what you curse there will be cursed here" possibly reflects.

as to the rest, leave it for someone else if it does not resonate with you, nothing wrong with that.
If you seek a definitive answer to your question--even though you cannot state any absolute truth yourself; how sad--plenty of ppl willing to give you one, i guess
 

Marymog

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it appears to me right now that it is Law that defines sin, and we who make the laws, just as "what you bless there will be blessed here, and what you curse there will be cursed here" possibly reflects.

as to the rest, leave it for someone else if it does not resonate with you, nothing wrong with that.
If you seek a definitive answer to your question--even though you cannot state any absolute truth yourself; how sad--plenty of ppl willing to give you one, i guess
Dear sir,

You make zero sense which makes it difficult to carry on a conversation with you.

I gave you an absolute truth. Since you can't seem to carry on a conversation without bearing false witness I will move on.

Mary
 

bbyrd009

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I gave you an absolute truth.
ah, what was that? missed it, sorry, care to restate it?
You make zero sense which makes it difficult to carry on a conversation with you.
imagine how i feel, lol :) j/k, you make sense from a certain perspective, of course
Since you can't seem to carry on a conversation without bearing false witness I will move on.
hey, and this is me encouraging you to do that, understand, if you think i am bearing any false witness, that you btw have not bothered to establish, right
 

theefaith

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Because that is the testimony of Scripture.

What you should be asking is , 'what is the purpose of Mary being a perpetual virgin?', as taught by the Roman church.

Stranger

Perpetual Virginity of Mary!

Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649)

Perpetual Virginity of Mary!

The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!

And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!

Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)

Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (does James save his people?)

Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!

Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)

Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)

Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!

Brothers and sisters of Jesus?

They are not the children of Mary!

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They may be brothers and sisters but they are simply not the children of Blessed Mary ever Virgin mother of God!

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (ancient writer)

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).


St Augustine, Sermons 186.1 (early 5th century):

“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).

“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).

“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).

St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):

"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.
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For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.

“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.

“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.

“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.

“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."

The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!
 

theefaith

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Does nothing of teh sort, bible says He was born of a virgin, and He was, after that it doesnt matter, teh task set before her was complete, she did as she was asked. If she slept with ten other men after that it would not matter teh promise is still fulfilled. Christ is no longer in the womb after He is born, is he??

If the Bible says she is a Virgin Lk 1:27 then she must remain a Virgin or the word of God would not be true and correct in saying she is a Virgin

“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (ancient writer)
 

theefaith

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It means they were wrong concerning Mary's perpetual virginity. Remember they were part of the Roman Church also for years. Thus they would be affected by it. They were drawing the line in some areas of doctrine, but not in all.

The Reformers were correct in dividing where they did. In other areas they didn't go far enough. It would be left to others to do so.

Well, according to Rome, yes Protestantism was founded by heretics.

Stranger

Where does the Bible say you can have a reformation?
Or that you can protest or be Protestant (rebellion) against valid authority established by Jesus Christ!
 

theefaith

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No, Scripture says Mary had other children. Thus Mary is no perpetual virgin. What is crazy is your belief that Mary is a perpetual virgin

well you do have the fact that the church with apostolic authority (keys) and power (bind and loose) matt 16:18 defined Mary mother of God is the immaculate conception, sinless, perpetual Virgin, assumption into heaven body and soul!
And Jesus says this kingdom authority and power must be obeyed!
 

101G

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Mary was only a virgin .... up and till the time after she had delievered the Body of our Lord and saviour, but the bible is clear, Josep her husband had sex with Mary after she bare the Saviour, supportive scripture, Matthew 1:24 "Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:"
Matthew 1:25 "And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS."

KNEW here is understood as carnal knowledge, or copulation. so that right there as said "ended any viriginity of Mary". that in black and white... the scriptures. so all that perpetual as a virgin is a man made LIE. scriptures don't lie, men do.

so get that nonesense out of your heads.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

theefaith

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Mary was only a virgin .... up and till the time after she had delievered the Body of our Lord and saviour, but the bible is clear, Josep her husband had sex with Mary after she bare the Saviour, supportive scripture, Matthew 1:24 "Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:"
Matthew 1:25 "And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS."

KNEW here is understood as carnal knowledge, or copulation. so that right there as said "ended any viriginity of Mary". that in black and white... the scriptures. so all that perpetual as a virgin is a man made LIE. scriptures don't lie, men do.

so get that nonesense out of your heads.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

the Bible identifies Mary as a Virgin!
Is 7:14 Lk 1:27 so she must remain a Virgin or that make the word of God a lie? cause it says she is a Virgin when she is not? See how that reflects on God And His holy word?

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(That’s present tense permanent)

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son, singular is God)

“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (ancient writer)

St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):

"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.

(Where are these other children when He was 12 and in the temple they don’t exist, on the cross He could not have given Mary to John if you had sons)

For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.

“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.

“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.

“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.

“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."

The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!
 

OzSpen

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The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept (sic) for Jesus Christ!QUOTE]

theefaith,

That is not what the Scriptures teach:

Jesus’ brothers are mentioned in several Bible verses. Matthew 12:46, Luke 8:19, and Mark 3:31 say that Jesus’ mother and brothers came to see Him. The Bible tells us that Jesus had four brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). The Bible also tells us that Jesus had sisters, but they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:56). In John 7:1-10, His brothers go on to the festival while Jesus stays behind. In Acts 1:14, His brothers and mother are described as praying with the disciples. Galatians 1:19 mentions that James was Jesus’ brother. The most natural conclusion of these passages is to interpret that Jesus had actual blood half-siblings (Got Questions 2020. Did Jesus have brothers & sisters (siblings)?)​

Oz