Alright. Cool. The way you are acting, that’s what I call angry. If you prefer to use the word offended, that’s okay. I’m out. I like to discuss without anger OR offendedness.
Carry on. Sorry to interrupt.
Jehovah is either God or He is not, correct?
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Carry on. Sorry to interrupt.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
My mission is to tell the truth.....that's all. There is only one truth, and from my extensive studies of the scriptures, over many years of researching many topics, Jesus is certainly of divine origin, and he plainly says that he came from God, who "sent" him. (John 17:3)
I cannot see how God can send himself.
I do not have belief in any "fire", but still I have no desire for anyone to offend our Creator by swallowing the lies that originated in Roman Catholicism....and not the Bible. The trinity doctrine was formulated by "the church" almost 400 years after Christ's death, which means that he never taught about such a thing, and nor did the apostles or it would have been plainly stated. There is not one clear and unambiguous scripture that states that Jesus and his Father are equally God. If there was, I would not be contesting this issue. It would already be settled by God himself.
I thank you for this SbG....I never want my posts to sound vitriolic, though I do sometimes weaken to add sarcasm....when I think it is deserved....
I'm not perfect....
Opinion noted.
I see a lot of things here,the greatest is FEAR and SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS!
Fear that someone will convince another they are wrong or show them the right.
Fear of finding the truth then folks would have to give up their own interpretations.
Fear one might be heard over another.
Folks thinking they are the only ones with the truth and everyone must bow to their superior intellect.
Thinking themselves in the right CULT or DENOMINATION as though it were Noah's ark.
Bible discussion happens between two fellows of the same mind. An exploration of God's word revealed by the Spirit.
I'm out from posting and like most forums this one won't get a rave review.
I see a lot of things here,the greatest is FEAR and SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS!
Fear that someone will convince another they are wrong or show them the right.
Fear of finding the truth then folks would have to give up their own interpretations.
Fear one might be heard over another.
Folks thinking they are the only ones with the truth and everyone must bow to their superior intellect.
Thinking themselves in the right CULT or DENOMINATION as though it were Noah's ark.
Bible discussion happens between two fellows of the same mind. An exploration of God's word revealed by the Spirit.
I'm out from posting and like most forums this one won't get a rave review.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Please let me clarify what happened here...I attacked no one. I corrected what I believed were inaccuracies.
You denied the "angry" emoticon you left on my post (#494) in order for you to claim that you weren't angry....OK, so are we bending the truth already?
Can I ask where I ever said that to you....now you are putting words in my mouth. Please don't do that.
Let me correct you again....
1) Nowhere in the Bible is the devil called "Lucifer"....it's a common misconception.
2) What the devil tries to steal is our loyalty to God because our "soul" is something the devil already has....now enslaved to sin and death. He uses our flawed nature to divide our loyalty to God. Its nothing new because he has been trying to separate us from God since day one....first with Eve and then with Adam.....both chose to disobey God because of selfish concerns. Eve was thinking about herself.....imagining that if she had it that good....here was this serpent telling her it could be better...?
Adam was also consumed with selfish thoughts....if he obeyed his God, he would lose his wife....and he had waited for a mate of his own...so he chose to stay with her and abandon his loyalty to God. The woman was not blamed for sin entering the world however because she was deceived (1 Timothy 2:14).....Adam was not. He could have changed the whole outcome if he had simply obeyed his God. The blame was placed squarely on his shoulders. (Romans 5:12)
Oh my goodness....you said that you were concerned that you were not conveying your thoughts correctly.....I think all you have to do is read what we are all reading....you convey anger at anyone who has the temerity to challenge what you believe. It is you who seems to want others to cowtow to you....did SbG misread you? I don't think so.
It clearly does, too late to act all innocent now....the truth is often confronting but it shouldn't make you angry.....it should make you want to go and do research rather than to respond in anger like you did.Keturah said:
I actually had to look that up....never heard of the word before, but I am certainly now aware of who I am dealing with.....Keturah said:
Apparently, "pions" is a term used by rappers and in the music industry to reference a lame, low class or low status person (someone who is at the bottom of the food chain).
Nice
.....lets just see how you choose to conduct yourself from now on....I will not be interacting with you....as I can see what kind of person you are.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
I'm sure the world will be shattered by your less than favorable review.....are you sure its the forums and not you who has to make some adjustments...? Just sayin'.....
Dropship
Well-Known Member
Yes, it's a VANITY thing, cult members like to think God has revealed special truths to them alone and not to the rest of us poor dumb shmucks..
The following web excerpt describes their condition-
The 'Right Man and Woman' Syndrome
They are domestic household tyrants who terrorise their families but they can be found in all fields of life, in business, politics, art, religion, culture etc.
They are poor communicators, appalling listeners and demonstrate a profound inflexibility.
They think they're right because they believe they carry "secret knowledge".
Their catch-phrase is: "There is nothing wrong with me; it is everyone else that is at fault."
They must always have their way and are afraid of losing face ("How dare you talk to me this way?"), and anything that might be an indication of their infallibility or erroneous ways is something that they can never admit.
And if things don't exactly go their way, they may try to scare people into submission by breaking into outbursts of rage.
So in other words the death of Jesus - the only sinless human being - was worthless.
See it's the other way around. So the more you folks say it so will I...
The bible says God cannot be tempted and cannot sin.
If Jesus was God that means he could not have been tempted to sin anyway. That makes Jesus a fraud because he never would have to overcome sin as he, as God, couldn't have been tempted to sin anyway - ultimately making the cross and the atonement for sin a complete hoax.
Hebrews 2:17 "Wherefore in all things it behoved him TO BE MADE LIKE UNTO HIS BRETHREN, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, TO MAKE RECONCILIATION FOR THE SINS OF THE PEOPLE."
In every instance where the word 'firstborn' is used, whether it's about the firstborn among the brethren, or the firstborn over all creation, or the firstborn from among the dead, or the firstborn into the world - or anything else - it always implies a beginning! NOT ONCE does it imply ETERNAL. The Textus Receptus uses the terminology, "BEFORE-most-BROUGHT-FORTH."
Bible says GOD CANNOT BE A MAN!
well, I certainly don’t think you believe yourself to be telling lies.
It’s difficult for us. We have a human mind. It thinks. It thinks with limitations. It’s actually broken (dropped from a great height, fallen) but still functioning. And if we can’t think or grasp a thing with our mind, or some other man can’t do so and then break it down for us, we reject it as not the truth.
You even proved this. You said, “I cannot see how.” It’s a lot like, “I won’t believe it unless I see it.” Or, unless I can grasp it with my mind, I reject it. Yes, I concur my mind is broken, but it’s all I have, the only operating system I’m in possession of, and so everything must bend to fit it’s limited operation.
I understand you because I cannot see how about many things too, spiritual AND temporal.
I don’t know why some can not lean on their own understanding and some never get there, but Gods working, that’s all I can say.
I had something so great and wonderful to add here but then everything went dark. Ah, I knew this was coming again. I even consented to it this time. (As if my consent matters!) And how odd that it happened right when I was talking about it. Right at the point I was talking about not leaning on your own understanding, it’s suddenly all I’m capable of. If God ever wanted to drive home a point to me or make sure I never waffled on it in the future, He surely just did it.
Guess I’ll be going away for a bit. I’ll return when I can. Or maybe sooner if I don’t stick to my guns about not speaking during it. Pfft!
I do not have belief in any "fire", but still I have no desire for anyone to offend our Creator by swallowing the lies that originated in Roman Catholicism....and not the Bible. The trinity doctrine was formulated by "the church" almost 400 years after Christ's death, which means that he never taught about such a thing, and nor did the apostles or it would have been plainly stated. There is not one clear and unambiguous scripture that states that Jesus and his Father are equally God. If there was, I would not be contesting this issue. It would already be settled by God himself.
I thank you for this SbG....I never want my posts to sound vitriolic, though I do sometimes weaken to add sarcasm....when I think it is deserved....
Hello. What is happening to you ? Are you blacking out ? Having a seizure. What consent are you giving ?
Are you being held captive?
Speaking during it?
What is happening ?
Can I help you or call someone for you ?
This is a false statement often used by sects such as the J.W.'s to tie the trinity Doctrine to post Constantine Catholicism. Of the early church Fathers some such as Polycarp in 70 Ad articulated the trinity. Polycarp was taught by John the Apostle, who in scripture articulated the deity of Christ more than any other NT writer. Theophilus was the first to use the word trinity to describe the relationship between Father Son and Spirit. That was circa 150 ad. Justin Martyr said the following circa 190 AD:
"We will prove that we worship him reasonably; for we have learned that he is the Son of the true God himself, that he holds a second place, and the Spirit of prophecy a third. For this they accuse us of madness, saying that we attribute to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all things; but they are ignorant of the mystery which lies therein."
This was all well before Constantine, and some were disciples of the Apostles themselves. The fact that it was placed into a creed was indicates the trinity's wide acceptance by the Faithful in the church by the time of the Nicene creed. Even the Nicene creed was dated 325 AD which the church has adhered to throughout the centuries.
So I don't know where you got your facts from but it is a false statement.
If you are interested you can read more here:
Did early church fathers understand the doctrine of trinity?
Many historians and religious scholars ... attest to the influence of Greek or Platonic philosophy in the development and acceptance of the Trinity doctrine in the fourth century. ... the famous
Lol! I thank you for your concern (and for making me laugh) but I’m fine. What I thought was happening didn’t happen. (And even if it had, I was okay with it and had consented to it so I could come back with more to help my brothers with.) Instead of what has happened in the past, a new thing happened. And after 5 hours of that new thing, I’ve got more light not less. It’s odd that hard things cease when your agreement is finally wholehearted.
I share all that fully expecting more humorous sarcasm. At least you are amusing and not vicious.
I have no idea what you are talking about.....lol were you teleported to someplace else ?Lol! I thank you for your concern (and for making me laugh) but I’m fine. What I thought was happening didn’t happen. (And even if it had, I was okay with it and had consented to it so I could come back with more to help my brothers with.) Instead of what has happened in the past, a new thing happened. And after 5 hours of that new thing, I’ve got more light not less. It’s odd that hard things cease when your agreement is finally wholehearted.
I share all that fully expecting more humorous sarcasm. At least you are amusing and not vicious.
Did you go get electro shock therapy? I thought you were in distress. I'm sorry but I do not understand . Am glad you are not in danger or dead.
WalterandDebbie
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What is a synonym for silly?
Synonyms for silly include stupid, brainless, witless, daft, fatuous, foolish, idiotic, inane, giddy and mindless.
Mantis
Well-Known Member
If Jesus is the express image of God, then I think it is perfectly acceptable to worship Jesus.
WalterandDebbie
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Hi Robert, In your OP, what are you asking? I was reading through the thread, and this is the reason I asked, but you are correct about the scriptures, but Jesus also says In John Ten: and verse 30, I and my Father are one: The Opposition At The Feast Of Dedication, Shouldn't we also realize that when Jesus said God is a spirit, I believe He was talking about God was in Christ, 2 Corinthians Five:19 in which Paul stated. And also Jesus said unto Philip in John Fourteen verses 8 through 21, Christ Answers Philip.
John 10 BSB
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2 Corinthians 5 KJV
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John 14 BSB
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Love, Walter
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Yeah, that happens here a lot, like you can see in this answer some "stuff member" wrote in one of my topics:Yes, it's a VANITY thing, cult members like to think God has revealed special truths to them alone and not to the rest of us poor dumb shmucks..
The following web excerpt describes their condition-
The 'Right Man and Woman' Syndrome
They are domestic household tyrants who terrorise their families but they can be found in all fields of life, in business, politics, art, religion, culture etc.
They are poor communicators, appalling listeners and demonstrate a profound inflexibility.
They think they're right because they believe they carry "secret knowledge".
Their catch-phrase is: "There is nothing wrong with me; it is everyone else that is at fault."
They must always have their way and are afraid of losing face ("How dare you talk to me this way?"), and anything that might be an indication of their infallibility or erroneous ways is something that they can never admit.
And if things don't exactly go their way, they may try to scare people into submission by breaking into outbursts of rage.
You need to stop. Go back and read my post before replying. You're trolling at this point. Twisting my words around into something you are saying and not what I have said. I will delete or edit any further post that you do that to.
So much rage and hatress that it only occurs to them to close topics, delete posts and exercise force and authority in the forum against those they do not want to be heard. Unfortunately they have the support of others, who add their likes to such abuse. What do you think Jesus think about it? Is it that what you were talking about?
I think you have to look at what took place. It wasn't because of wide acceptance that the trinity was devised. There were bitter battles and riots between Arius and the so-called saint Athanasius. Rome was falling apart, and Constantine knew he had to do something and pick one side or the other to keep the Empire intact. So he sided with the more brutal and powerful Athanasius.
Then who knows how many people were tortured and burned over this one doctrine alone.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Thank you....all we can do is convey what we believe and why we believe it....and leave the rest to God and the individual seeker.....
To my way of thinking, God is the one who gave us our sense of logic, so when things relate to things on earth, they must of necessity be logical, which is what I always find when I delve into deep subjects. He always uses terminology that we understand, like his relationship with his son.....they describe themselves as father and son....it isn't something humans decided. So the familial relationship does not indicate equality, but the superiority of Father to son. Jesus is called "the only begotten" son of God before his earthly sojourn. Since Adam is also called a "son of God" even in his human flesh, (Luke 3:38) Jesus had to have existed before him, just as he existed before Abraham.....he pre-existed all living things as "the firstborn of all creation"...."the beginning of God's creation". (Col 1:15; Revelation 3:14)
Matters relating to the spirit realm I don't think we will ever comprehend and were probably never supposed to, since God put us here on planet Earth for a reason....and intended it to be our permanent home. He went to a lot of trouble to make it the most idyllic place to live and to ensure that we had the very best start, he gave us a blueprint of what he wanted the whole world to look like. Mankind would be given the privilege of transforming the untamed world out side the garden till the whole planet was "subdued" and a fitting place for man to worship his creator and appreciate all the beautiful things that he had made, just for their enjoyment.
I think the Bible answers that question for us.....I don't think its obvious to many people that God can only work with willing and teachable hearts...he cannot "make a silk purse out of a sow's ear"....but rather allows us to show him who we are at heart by our decisions and actions.
If John 6:44, 65 is true....
"No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him. . . . .“This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”....then this is the basis upon which God selects the citizens of his kingdom. He will choose from among mankind those whom he deems to be "sheep" and reject those who prove that they are "goats".....and the destiny of both is there in the scriptures for us. These mean opposite destinations.....Everlasting life or everlasting death....there is no fence in the middle...
When Christ comes a judge, the decision will be final.
I guess this is something unique to yourself and apparently causes you no distress. Do you see it as something supernatural?
My point was that the trinity was not an invention of the 4th century Catholic church, But rather goes back to the writings of the Apostles in the NT. For example, what were the Apostle Thomas' first words after he was born again?
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. (John 20:28) Did Jesus correct him for calling him God? Or did the Spirit reveal this mystery when Thomas was born again? This is why the denial of the deity of Christ merely exposes the Lack of the Spirit in you. You ever read the testimony of Charles Wesley. When he was saved, he was already a missionary in the church. Immediately after he was born again, he penned his most famous hymn "And can it be" which affirms his understanding of the Deity of Christ in manifesting his Love for us.
- And can it be that I should gain
An int’rest in the Savior’s blood?
Died He for me, who caused His pain—
For me, who Him to death pursued?
Amazing love! How can it be,
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?- Refrain:
Amazing love! How can it be,
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?
- Refrain:
- ’Tis myst’ry all: th’ Immortal dies:
Who can explore His strange design?
In vain the firstborn seraph tries
To sound the depths of love divine.
’Tis mercy all! Let earth adore,
Let angel minds inquire no more. - He left His Father’s throne above—
So free, so infinite His grace—
Emptied Himself of all but love,
And bled for Adam’s helpless race:
’Tis mercy all, immense and free,
For, O my God, it found out me! - Long my imprisoned spirit lay,
Fast bound in sin and nature’s night;
Thine eye diffused a quick’ning ray—
I woke, the dungeon flamed with light;
My chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee. - No condemnation now I dread;
Jesus, and all in Him, is mine;
Alive in Him, my living Head,
And clothed in righteousness divine,
Bold I approach th’ eternal throne,
And claim the crown, through Christ my own.
You see the confession of the Deity of Christ is the very seal of God with us that shows us who is of God and who is not.
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