Jesus Christ is Almighty God

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

kcnalp

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2020
7,326
1,782
113
Indianapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ok, I found the VOICE. It's not very user friendly!

The VOICE
John 20:28 Thomas ( filled with emotion): 28 You are the one True God and Lord of my life.
 

Amazed@grace

Well-Known Member
Apr 1, 2021
1,611
1,388
113
futurum, ubi non sunt atheus troglodytae
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"Jesus Christ is Almighty God"
Of course he is.
What Does the Bible Say About Jesus Is God Almighty?

When Jesus said it of himself how do we dare say he lied?
Which is what happens when denying Jesus was God.

It's the same thing with the topic known as OSAS, aka eternal salvation.
Emphasis on eternal.
The red herring offered to argue we are not eternally saved is refuted in scripture. But the adversarial argument says eternal salvation is false because it is license to sin.

Ergo, Jesus died as a man not God in flesh to deceive people . And all those verses that tell us evidence of our eternal salvation is that we dont make a habit of sinning are false, or as is the case far too often, are to be ignored.
Now, watch this, because those who make a habit of sinning are not saved. And that refutes the adversary's position that eternal salvation is license to sin.

Pretty straight forward.

While the adversarial position that ignores the verses that tell the world the eternally saved do not make sin a habit, and use that pathway that abrogates the true words of Jesus, are making a habit of sinning repeatedly when their platform presumes to insist those scriptures do not exist.

And that is why their teaching salvation is not eternal is true.
By example, undertaking that effort, they are right. Because they are not.

Those who know the peace of Christ would never insist Jesus was a man and salvation is not eternal.
 
Last edited:

GracePeace

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2021
3,420
685
113
Southwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It's the same thing with the topic known as OSAS, aka eternal salvation.
Emphasis on eternal.
The red herring offered to argue we are not eternally saved is refuted in scripture. But the adversarial argument says eternal salvation is false because it is license to sin.

Ergo, Jesus died as a man not God in flesh to deceive people . And all those verses that tell us evidence of our eternal salvation is that we dont make a habit of sinning.
Now, watch this, because those who make a habit of sinning are not saved.

Pretty straight forward.

While the adversarial position that ignores the verses that tell the world the eternally saved do not make sin a habit, and use that pathway that abrogates the true words of Jesus, are making a habit of sinning repeatedly when their platform presumes to insist those scriptures do not exist.

And that is why their teaching salvation is not eternal is true.
By example, undertaking that effort, they are right. Because they are not.

Those who know the peace of Christ would never insist Jesus was a man and salvation is not eternal.
Why are you raising OSAS? It's off-topic.
People are trying to get to the bottom of Jesus as God here.
We cannot tolerate having the thread "littered" with off-topic discussion.
 
Last edited:

GracePeace

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2021
3,420
685
113
Southwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Bingo.

And ‘his people’ have also changed, ie, some overlap.

A fair interpretation of Scripture is that God delegated the responsibility of husbandry to his Son.
"Husbandry"?
No, a RELATIONSHIP!
Who "delegates" their WIFE to someone else?
NO ONE (no moral person anyway)!
What are you implying then?

Indeed, as Scripture said, God is STILL the Husband of His People--and that Husband is JESUS Who must be God!
 
Last edited:

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
13,369
4,994
113
55
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
More proof text Jesus is not God.


John 13:3
Complete Jewish Bible

3 Yeshua was aware that the Father had put everything in his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God.
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"The entire Bible is written by monotheist Jews who reject the trinity to this day."

Erroneous statement in @Wrangler's signature.
Easily corrected by altering Signature.

luke was not a Jew!

christian church always taught monotheism also
One God
Three persons
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
God inspired each and every Word of His eternal living Word.==Believe it!

but is God’s word limited to the Bible?

if scripture is God breathed then what about the apostles who are God breathed? Jn 20:21-23

Does a doctrine have to be found in scripture? No
It must be taught by the holy church and apostles! Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Acts 2:42 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:30
 

Hemlock

Active Member
Apr 6, 2021
198
142
43
71
WACO
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
theefaith and I agree!

It must be Pentecost Sunday!
 

kcnalp

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2020
7,326
1,782
113
Indianapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
More proof text Jesus is not God.


John 13:3
Complete Jewish Bible

3 Yeshua was aware that the Father had put everything in his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God.
John 1:1 (CJB)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
 

Hemlock

Active Member
Apr 6, 2021
198
142
43
71
WACO
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Here's how these quotes work - I was quoting Wrangler's statement that whole Bible was written by monotheist Jews...

theefaith quotes from MY POST and it makes it looks like

I

said what I quoted from Wrangler!

Goofy

Anyway. theefaith and I agree on the big stuff - Trinity and Jesus is God

I don't hate Catholics - I hate it when they bash Protestants
 

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
13,369
4,994
113
55
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Here's how these quotes work - I was quoting Wrangler's statement that whole Bible was written by monotheist Jews...

theefaith quotes from MY POST and it makes it looks like

I

said what I quoted from Wrangler!

Maybe you had one less ‘[KUOTE]’ in your string?
 

tigger 2

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2017
916
405
63
84
port angeles
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Here are all the parallel constructions in John's writing that are actually parallel to the construction of John 1:1c.

H.....1. John 4:9 (a) - indefinite ("a Jew") - all translations
H,W...2. John 4:19 - indefinite ("a prophet") - all
H,W...3. John 6:70 - indefinite ("a devil"/"a slanderer") - all
H,W...4. John 8:44 (a) - indefinite ("a mankiller/murderer") - al
H,W...5. John 8:48 - indefinite ("a Samaritan") - all
H,W...6. John 9:24 - indefinite ("a sinner") - all
H,W...7. John 10:1 - indefinite ("a thief and a plunderer") - all
H,W...8. John 10:33 - indefinite ("a man") - all
H,W...9. John 18:35 - indefinite ("a Jew") - all
H,W...10. John 18:37 (a) - indefinite ("a king") - all
[H,W..11. John 18:37 (b) - indefinite ("a king") - Received Text and 1991 Byzantine text]

These are all indefinite nouns (not definite, not "qualitative"). All trinitarian Bible translations I have examined render them as indefinite and with the indefinite article ("a/an")! We should have enough examples to satisfy the most critical (but honest) scholar now. (And I wouldn't strongly resist the use of the "no subject" examples which clearly intend the subject as being a pronoun included with the verb, e.g., "[he] is," which would then bring our total of ALL proper examples to nearly 20.)

These would include:

H,W 12. Jn 8:44 (b) - indefinite (“a liar”) - all

H,W 13. Jn 9:8 (a) - indefinite (“a beggar”) - all

H,W 14. Jn 9:17 - indefinite (“a prophet”) - all

H,W 15. Jn 9:25 - indefinite (“a sinner”) - all

H,W 16. Jn 10:13 - indefinite (“a hireling/hired hand”) - all

H,W 17. Jn 12:6 - indefinite (“a thief”) - all

18. 1 Jn 4:20 - indefinite (“a liar”) - all

H: Also found in Harner's list of "Colwell Constructions"
W: Also found in Wallace's list of "Colwell Constructions"

Why, then, if John really meant that Jesus is the One True God, didn’t he use the definite article at John 1:1c ? Because, as he did with other terms sometimes used for Jesus (“prophet,” “king”), he intended for them to be taken as indefinite nouns (“a prophet,” “a king,” and “a god”) when the article was not used.

It should also be pointed out that 3 Kings 18:27 in the ancient Greek Septuagint translation of the Old Testament (1 Kings 18:27 in English Bibles) has a very similar construction to John 1:1c. It has theos as a predicate noun without a definite article and coming before the verb: “for God [or ‘a god’] he is.” But the Septuagint translation by Sir Lancelot Brenton (Zondervan Publishing) says “for he is a god.”!! Compare other translations of 1 Kings 18:27: “a god” is obviously intended here! This is a clear (and very significant) “violation” of “Colwell’s Rule”! - Cf. Judges 6:31 (and Ezek. 28:2 in many Bibles.)

Using the above trinitarian grammarian-approved examples should allow the average objective person To find the truth of John's use of the Greek in John 1:1c - "And the Word was a god."

from my study on my blog: Examining the Trinity: DEFinite John 1:1c

As for the use of "a god" by John,
This is a fact acknowledged by even most trinitarian experts:

Some of these trinitarian sources which admit that the Bible actually describes men who represent God (judges, faithful Israelite kings, etc.) and God’s angels as gods (or a god) include:

1. Young’s Analytical Concordance of the Bible, “Hints and Helps...,” Eerdmans, 1978 reprint;

2. Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, #430, Hebrew & Chaldee Dict., Abingdon, 1974;

3. New Bible Dictionary, p. 1133, Tyndale House Publ., 1984;

4. Today’s Dictionary of the Bible, p. 208, Bethany House Publ., 1982;

5. Hastings’ A Dictionary of the Bible, p. 217, Vol. 2;

6. The New Brown-Driver-Briggs-Gesenius Hebrew-English Lexicon, p. 43, Hendrickson publ.,1979;

7. Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, #2316 (4.), Thayer, Baker Book House, 1984 printing;

8. The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, p. 132, Vol. 1; & p. 1265, Vol. 2, Eerdmans, 1984;

9. The NIV Study Bible, footnotes for Ps. 45:6; Ps. 82:1, 6; & Jn 10:34; Zondervan, 1985;

10. New American Bible, St. Joseph ed., footnote for Ps. 45:7; 82:1; Jn 10:34; 1970 ed.;

11. A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures, Vol. 5, pp. 188-189;

12. William G. T. Shedd, Dogmatic Theology, Vol. 1, pp. 317, 324, Nelson Publ., 1980 printing;

13. Murray J. Harris, Jesus As God, p. 202, Baker Book House, 1992;

14. William Barclay, The Gospel of John, V. 2, Daily Study Bible Series, pp. 77, 78, Westminster Press, 1975;

15. The New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible (John 10:34 and Ps. 82:6);

16. The Fourfold Gospel (Note for John 10:35);

17. Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible - Jamieson, Fausset, Brown

(John 10:34-36);

18. Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible (Ps. 82:6-8 and John 10:35);

19. John Wesley's Explanatory Notes on the Whole Bible (Ps. 82:1).

20. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament ('Little Kittel'), - p. 328, Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1985.

21. The Expositor’s Greek Testament, pp. 794-795, Vol. 1, Eerdmans Publishing Co.

22. The Amplified Bible, Ps. 82:1, 6 and John 10:34, 35, Zondervan Publ., 1965.

23. Barnes' Notes on the New Testament, John 10:34, 35.

24. B. W. Johnson's People's New Testament, John 10:34-36.

25. The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Zondervan, 1986, Vol. 3, p. 187.

26. Fairbairn’s Imperial Standard Bible Encyclopedia, p. 24, vol. III, Zondervan, 1957 reprint.

27. Theological Dictionary, Rahner and Vorgrimler, p. 20, Herder and Herder, 1965.

(also John 10:34, 35 - NEB; CEV; TEV; GodsWord; The Message; NLT; NIRV)

And the earliest Christians like the highly respected NT scholar Origen and others - - including Tertullian; Justin Martyr; Hippolytus; Clement of Alexandria; Theophilus; the writer of “The Epistle to Diognetus”; and even super-trinitarians St. Athanasius and St. Augustine - - also had this understanding for “a god.”

They saw nothing wrong with calling certain men “gods” if they were trying to follow God and be his representatives or ambassadors. Just because it sounds strange to our ears today in modern English is no reason to ignore the facts!
 
Last edited:

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
13,369
4,994
113
55
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Then Who was this "God" in the "flesh"?

John 1 The Word was God.
The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

I've answered this many times. You are stubbornly interpreting figurative language literally - for beings are not words. (Expressing words is an attribute of some beings).

It is God's word that became flesh in John 1, not God. See Deutoronomy 18:15-18. See John 1:18


God, unseen until now, is revealed in the Voice, God’s only Son, straight from the Father’s heart.
John 1:18 (VOICE)
 

kcnalp

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2020
7,326
1,782
113
Indianapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I've answered this many times. You are stubbornly interpreting figurative language literally - for beings are not words. (Expressing words is an attribute of some beings).
The Word that was and is God is called HE and HIM. Have you ever read John 1?

John 1:1-4 (NKJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Then Who was this "God" in the "flesh"?

John 1 The Word was God.
The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Jesus not God?
You got a lot of explaining to do!

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Heb 1: 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Jn 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

His Angels! God’s Angels!

Isaiah 6:3
And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

Hosts of Angels!

Adoration is due to God alone!

Matt 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

Only God can work miracles

Matthew 8:27
But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!


Jn 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. (Jesus is Lord)

John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Jn 20:28 my Lord and my God!

Jesus declares that He will come to be the judge of all men (Matthew 25:31).

John the baptist prophet of the most high? Lk 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

Prepare the way of the Lord Lk 1:4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;

6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

The Lord is Jesus and a Jesus is Lord, One God in three persons!

Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God almighty!

Matt 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

2:12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

They worshiped Jesus and only God can be worshiped!

Matt 5: 21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Only God have the commandments only God can change them!

Matthew 8:26
And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

Only God has this power!

Matt 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Only God!

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Only God can be this!

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
 

kcnalp

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2020
7,326
1,782
113
Indianapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jesus not God?
You got a lot of explaining to do!

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Heb 1: 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Jn 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

His Angels! God’s Angels!

Isaiah 6:3
And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

Hosts of Angels!

Adoration is due to God alone!

Matt 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

Only God can work miracles

Matthew 8:27
But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!


Jn 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. (Jesus is Lord)

John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Jn 20:28 my Lord and my God!

Jesus declares that He will come to be the judge of all men (Matthew 25:31).

John the baptist prophet of the most high? Lk 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

Prepare the way of the Lord Lk 1:4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;

6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

The Lord is Jesus and a Jesus is Lord, One God in three persons!

Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God almighty!

Matt 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

2:12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

They worshiped Jesus and only God can be worshiped!

Matt 5: 21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Only God have the commandments only God can change them!

Matthew 8:26
And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

Only God has this power!

Matt 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Only God!

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Only God can be this!

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jesus is indeed God. You misunderstood me.