Jesus didn't have siblings.

[Soulx3]

In Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) are called Jesus's "ἀδελφοί" (adelphoi). This Koine Greek word has the following textbook definitions: "fellow-countryman," "disciple/follower," "one of the same faith," and "kinsman, or relative," etc. The context in these verses shows that the definition "kinsman, or relative" applies, and it can refer to a range of different types of family members, e.g., siblings, cousins, nephews, or uncles, etc.

Some believe those four brothers (kinsmen/relatives) of Jesus were the sons of Joseph and Mary, and thus His siblings.
I disagree, and in this post I will show the type of family members of Jesus they actually were.
This will be accomplished primarily by identifying James.

Firstly, not only in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, but in Gal. 1:19, is there a "James" called Jesus's brother in a familial sense. In the latter, Paul indicates that James is an apostle as well. If you agree that these James's were the same person, consider the following apostle -James and his known siblings, the scriptural verses, and early Christian testimonials:

James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus), and Joseph of Alphaeus
(Matt. 10:3, Mk. 3:18, Mk. 15:40, Lk. 6:15-16, Ac. 1:13)

"are not His brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas?" (Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3)
"apostles James the son of Alpheus ... Jude the brother of James (Lk. 6:15-16)
"his (Jesus's) mother's sister, Mary of Cleophas (Clopas)" (Jn. 19:25)
"Mary, mother of James" (Mk. 16:1)
"Mary of James" (Lk. 24:10)
"Mary, mother of James and Joseph" (Matt. 27:56)
"Mary, mother of James the Less and Joseph" (Mk. 15:40)

I. "Mary the wife of Cleophas or Alphaeus (Clopas), who was the mother of James the bishop and apostle, and of Simon and Thaddeus (Jude/Judas), and of one Joseph." (Papias of Hierapolis [c. 60–130 AD], Fragments of Papias, Frag. 10, cf. Jn. 19:25)

II. "...James, who is called the brother of the Lord ... as appears to me, the son of Mary sister of the mother of our Lord ... after ordained by the apostles bishop of Jerusalem, wrote a single epistle, which is reckoned among the seven Catholic epistles" (cf. Jud. 1:1) and "...Mary who is described as the mother of James the Less was the wife of Alphaeus and sister of Mary the Lord's mother" (Jerome of Stridon [c. 347–420 CE], De Viris Illustribus, De Perpetua Uirginitate Beatae Mariae, cf. Jn. 19:25)

III. Eusebius of Caesarea [c. 260–340 AD] relates the following in his Historia Ecclesiastica:

"James, the brother of the Lord, was "...the author of the first of the so-called catholic epistles" and that while it is disputed, "as is the case likewise with the epistle that bears the name of Jude, which is also one of the seven so-called catholic epistles," it is known they have been "...read publicly in very many churches." (Bk. I, ch. 23, cf. Jud. 1:1)

"James ... surnamed the Just ... bishop of the church of Jerusalem. This James was called the brother of the Lord..." and "Paul also makes mention of the same James the Just, where he writes, 'Other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.'" (Bk. II, ch. 1)

"...those of the apostles and disciples of the Lord ... with those that were related to the Lord according to the flesh ... pronounced Symeon (Simon), the son of Clopas ... to be worthy of the episcopal throne of that parish. He was a cousin, as they say, of the Saviour. For Hegesippus records that Clopas was a brother of Joseph." (Bk. III, ch. 11)

"Josephus, at least, has not hesitated to testify this in his writings, where he says, 'These things happened to the Jews to avenge James the Just, who was a brother of Jesus, that is called the Christ.'" (Bk. II, ch. 23)

"...the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James" (Flavius Josephus [c. 37-100 CE], Antiquitates Iudaicae, Bk. XX, ch. 9)

"...James the Just bishop of Jerusalem" and "...but there were two Jameses: one called the Just ... thrown from the pinnacle of the temple ... and beaten to death with a club by a fuller, and another who was beheaded." (Bk. II, ch. 1) (Clement of Alexandria [c. 150–215 AD], Hypotyposes, Bk. VII, cf. Ac. 12:1-2)

"...James the brother of the Lord, succeeded to the government of the Church ... called the Just ..." (Bk. II, ch. 23) and "after James the Just had suffered martyrdom ... Symeon (Simon), the son of the Lord's uncle, Clopas, was appointed the next bishop ... because he was a cousin of the Lord." (Bk. III, ch. 22) (Hegesippus [c. 110-180 AD], Hypomnemata)

Summary

The scriptural verses and crossover agreement between all my sources, even if not every surname is listed by each individual source, collectively show that (i) James and Judas of the four in Matt. 13:55/Mk.6:3 were the apostles James and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) of Alphaeus (Matt. 10:3, Mk. 3:18, Lk. 6:15-16, Ac. 1:13), the brother of Jesus's mother's spouse, and his wife Mary of Cleophas (Clopas/Alphaeus), the sister (in-law) of Mary of Joseph, and thus the four were Jesus's cousins, and (ii) this James was the same person as "James the Less" (Mk. 15:40), "James the brother of the Lord" (Gal. 1:19), "James the Just," "James the bishop of Jerusalem" (Ac. 15:13-21), and "James the author of the Epistle of James" (Jas. 1). The other "James" was the apostle James of Zebedee, or "James the Great," brother of the apostle John of Zebedee.​

 

[Ronald Nolette]

All wrong!

Jesus had four half brothers. James, Joses, Simon and Judah and He had at least 2 half sisters. Just because mother is used of other Mary's do not make them Her children. The four names of Jesus half brothers were very common Jewish names so there were lots of James, Joses, Simon and Judas

Mark 3:31-35

King James Version

​

31 There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.
32 And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.
33 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Kind of crazy to say Jesus' cousins' were calling for Him and then He says who are HIs mother and brothers and sisters. Besides at the writing of both Matt. and Mark there were perfectly good words to be used and common for cousins and relatives outside of immediate family. Mary and Joseph were good practicing Jews, so they "knew" each other lots of times and as good Jews produced as many offspring as they could- in fulfilment of the Law.

 

[marks]

Jesus had four half brothers. James, Joses, Simon and Judah and He had at least 2 half sisters. Just because mother is used of other Mary's do not make them Her children. The four names of Jesus half brothers were very common Jewish names so there were lots of James, Joses, Simon and Judas

Of course Jesus had siblings!

To me this is just another long and convoluted argument to support false catholic church (so-called) doctrine.

Much love!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

To me this is just another long and convoluted argument to support false catholic church (so-called) doctrine.

Much love!

Yep. It is taking simple easy to read and understand passages and torturing them to make them something God never said.

Just like Mary ever virgin!

24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

they all know what "knew " means, but can't bring themselves to honor Gods word.

 

[marks]

Yep. It is taking simple easy to read and understand passages and torturing them to make them something God never said.

Just like Mary ever virgin!

24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

they all know what "knew " means, but can't bring themselves to honor Gods word.

It's the adding to God's Word that becomes the problem. "He knew her not until", and they add, "and after" to make it fit their view.

Much love!

 

[Soulx3]

Just because mother is used of other Mary's do not make them Her children.

I didn't say that it did in and of itself.

The four names of Jesus half brothers were very common Jewish names so there were lots of James, Joses, Simon and Judas

That fact doesn't refute the evidence that shows Simon, Joseph, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) in Matt. 13:66/Mk 6. 3 were the sons of Jesus's uncle, Alphaeus, and his wife Mary (the sister-in law of Mary of Joseph (Jn. 19:25).

31 There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.
32 And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.
33 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Kind of crazy to say Jesus' cousins' were calling for Him and then He says who are HIs mother and brothers and sisters.

In Matt. 12:46-47/Mk. 3:31-32/Lk. 8:19-20, Jesus's brothers who arrived with His mother to speak with Him were two of His four cousins, Joseph and Simon of Alphaeus. Joseph and Simon had heard that Jesus had done carpentry work in Korazim for a widow who's husband had died, and they, particularly Joseph, was the most visually and vocally angry at Him for making money for her and her children, but not His own Mother, etc., and they were there to confront Him about it, but Jesus set them straight (The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. II, ch. 268, pp. 430-436). Joseph and Simon's brothers were the apostles James and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) of Alphaeus. Alphaeus was Jesus's mother's spouse's brother, which is why all four were His cousins. These cousins were often around and/or with Jesus because they all grew up closely together.

Besides at the writing of both Matt. and Mark there were perfectly good words to be used and common for cousins and relatives outside of immediate family.

There's more than one word in the Koine Greek language that can be used to refer to various types of family members, such as cousins: "ἀνεψιός" (anepsios), "συγγενίς" (syngenis), "συγγενής" (syngenēs), "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos, pl. ἀδελφοὶ;adelphoi), and "αδελφαι" (sing. ἀδελφή;adelphē; pl. αδελφαι;adelphai). The only difference between "ἀδελφοί" (adelphoi) and "ἀνεψιός" (anepsios), for example, is that the former doesn't have the direct definition "cousin," or that of any other type of family member, but rather the broad "kinsmen, or relative," and thus can refer to various types of family members, including cousins indirectly. That's why it's asinine to essentially argue, "That Koine Greek word that can be used to refer to cousins wouldn't have been used, but rather this Koine Greek word that can also be used to refer to cousins would've been used.”

Mary and Joseph were good practicing Jews, so they "knew" each other lots of times and as good Jews produced as many offspring as they could- in fulfilment of the Law.

• It's not stated in any writings of God that married couples are required to have sexual intercourse and/or procreate.
• It's not stated in any writings of God that a married couple is prohibited from taking a vow of chastity for God.
• It's not stated anywhere in the New Testament that Joseph and Mary had intercourse at any point.
• If you believe Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 were Jesus's half-siblings, I remind you that it's not stated in any writings of God that they were the sons of Joseph and Mary, but rather only Jesus is called the son of Joseph and Mary (Matt. 13:55, Mk. 6:3). In this thread I've provided scriptural verses from the New Testament, in addition to more explicit evidence, that collectively show that they were the sons of Jesus's uncle, Alphaeus (Joseph's brother), and his wife Mary of Cleophas (Clopas/Alphaeus) who was Mary of Joseph's sister-in-law (Jn. 19:25), and were thus His cousins.

 

[Soulx3]

Of course Jesus had siblings!

I've proven those believed to have been His siblings were actually His cousins.

 

[marks]

I've proven those believed to have been His siblings were actually His cousins.

Why would you think that Mary and Joseph disobeyed God's will?? He made His will very clear about marriage and sex and children, and you claim that these two people defied Him in that way.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I've proven those believed to have been His siblings were actually His cousins.

You've made some inferrences which are hardly convincing. The straightforward reading of the Bible is much more convincing to me. And that you do this in service of CC doctrine doesn't help your case. And extrabiblical writings don't help either, only to show that you are willing to go outside of Scripture - things you call Scripture but are not.

No, not proven at all.

Much love!

 

[Soulx3]

Why would you think that Mary and Joseph disobeyed God's will?? He made His will very clear about marriage and sex and children, and you claim that these two people defied Him in that way.

• It's not stated in any writings of God that married couples are required to have sexual intercourse and/or procreate.
• It's not stated in any writings of God that a married couple is prohibited from taking a vow of chastity for God.
• It's not stated anywhere in the New Testament that Joseph and Mary had intercourse at any point.
• If you believe Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 were Jesus's half-siblings, I remind you that it's not stated in any writings of God that they were the sons of Joseph and Mary, but rather only Jesus is called the son of Joseph and Mary (Matt. 13:55, Mk. 6:3). In this thread I've provided scriptural verses from the New Testament, in addition to more explicit evidence, that collectively show that they were the sons of Jesus's uncle, Alphaeus (Joseph's brother), and his wife Mary of Cleophas (Clopas/Alphaeus) who was Mary of Joseph's sister-in-law (Jn. 19:25), and were thus His cousins.

 

[ElieG12]

This is the same "cliché" repeated so many times by the forum member Sigma. No matter how many times he tries the same arguments, no one has believed this false teaching that Jesus had no brothers.

BROTHER means "sharing a common ancestor (father)" ... but cousins is more specific. No serious dictionary include "cousin" as an optional meaning of ἀδελφός.

The interpretation of ἀδελφός in such passages as Mt 12:46; Mk 3:31; and Jn 2:12 as meaning ‘cousins’ (on the basis of a corresponding Hebrew term, which is used in certain cases to designate masculine relatives of various degrees) is not attested in Greek nor affirmed in the Greek-English lexicon edited by Arndt, Gingrich, and Danker. Such an interpretation depends primarily on ecclesiastical tradition. LN.10.49

You can continue your litany as you do their rosaries again and again and again to infinity and beyond. They will no longer deceive anyone else with their "mother goddess" of pagan origin.

PS: There is not any Jude (or BTW Simon) the son of Cleophas. Jude and Simon are among the four brothers of Jesus, the sons of Mary and Joseph. The other Mary and Cleophas only had two sons: James the Less and Joses.

Have a good one.

Cleophas and his wife Mary ("the other Mary") are credited with two sons in the Bible: James the Less, and Joses (Matt. 27:56).

Mary, who is almost always mentioned accompanying "the brothers of Jesus" (except in John 7:3,5) is attributed with 4 more children: James, Joseph, Judas, and Simon.

Note that Cleophas' son is called Joses (Mark 15:40,47), and Jesus' brother is called Joseph, a different name ... To verify this diference you should see in a Greek NT. Besides, Cleophas' son is James the Less (the nick is to diferenciate him from the other James), while Jesus' brother is called simply James, "the brother of the Lord." (Gal. 1:19).

They are two diferent families. Catholics lie ... purposely?

 

[marks]

It's not stated in any writings of God that married couples are required to have sexual intercourse and/or procreate.

God stated His will for marriage. You presume that Mary and Joseph ignored that. And why? To support false doctrine by the so-called Catholic Church.

The plain reading of Scripture tells us the simple truth. They did not have sex until after Jesus was born, and then they had other sons and daughters.

It's not stated in any writings of God that a married couple is prohibited from taking a vow of chastity for God.

Rather, Paul wrote to NOT obstain from sex within marriage, and if so, ONLY for a limited time.

You claim Mary and Joseph defied this.

It's not stated anywhere in the New Testament that Joseph and Mary had intercourse at any point.

It's not stated that they didn't. And it's implied that they did. And since they had other children, we know that of course they did.

in addition to more explicit evidence,

And again, you can quote comic books if you want, I'm believing the Bible itself.

Much love!

 

[Soulx3]

This is the same "cliché" repeated so many times by the forum member Sigma.

Sigma is my other account.

No matter how many times he tries the same arguments, no one has believed this false teaching that Jesus had no brothers.

I'm a "she" not a "he." Now, I've spoken the truth on this matter, regardless of who rejects it.

 

[ElieG12]

Sorry about the "he/she" ...

Well, Sigma-II, Why are you opening so many threads to repeat the same things that have already been answered?

 

[Soulx3]

God stated His will for marriage. You presume that Mary and Joseph ignored that. And why? To support false doctrine by the so-called Catholic Church.

It's not stated in any writings of God that married couples are required to have sexual intercourse and/or procreate. It's not stated in any writings of God that a married couple is prohibited from taking a vow of chastity for God.

They did not have sex until after Jesus was born, and then they had other sons and daughters.

First, in Matt. 1:20-24, Matthew speaks about the ways in which the long-awaited messianic prophecy has come to fruition, such as Joseph accepting as his Spouse the Virgin Who conceived the Savior of mankind by the Holy Spirit. In Matt. 1:25, he reiterates and reinforces that the Savior was truly begotten by the Holy Spirit, and born of the Virgin Mary, by referring to a specific period: pre-birth of the Savior, a period of known non-sexual activity that would dispel any belief the Savior was conceived by Joseph and not the Holy Spirit, nor born of a virgin. Note: This in and of itself doesn't indicate whether Joseph and Mary did or didn't have sexual intercourse after that period ended, and thus can't and shouldn't be used as proof to support they had or didn’t have a carnal married life. You're ignoring the context of this passage because it doesn't support what you'd rather believe.

Second, I remind you that it's not stated in any writings of God that Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were called the sons of Joseph and Mary, but rather only Jesus is called the son of Joseph and Mary (Matt. 13:55, Mk. 6:3).

 

[Soulx3]

Well, Sigma-II, Why are you opening so many threads to repeat the same things that have already been answered?

Threads get buried so I started a new one. And, if by "answered" you mean "refuted" then no, the opening post hasn't been refuted.

 

[Cassandra]

Threads get buried so I started a new one. And, if by "answered" you mean "refuted" then no, the opening post hasn't been refuted.

You just bring the old thread back up.--you don't have to start a new one.

 

[ElieG12]

Sexual relations within marriage are not a sin, since we all can read that when Jehovah God gave Adam a wife, He blessed them and:

Gen. 1:28 (...) God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.”

So the couple's ability to reproduce within marriage and fill the earth with many children is part of God's blessing. That is why historically it has been understood that children are a blessing from God, because they evidently keep the family name alive through many generations.

Besides, the earth was supposed to be filled with descendants of Adam and Eve and subsequent generations of perfect humans. How would offspring appear without sexual relations within marriages?

Mary was a young woman engaged in marriage, who was chosen to give birth to the Son of God. But her marriage did not break up when she gave birth to Jesus. Joseph remained the adoptive father of Jesus and biological father of the rest of his brothers and sisters.

Matt. 1:24 Then Joseph woke up from his sleep and did as the angel of Jehovah had directed him, and he took his wife home. 25 But he did not have sexual relations with her until she gave birth to a son, and he named him Jesus.

 

[ElieG12]

Threads get buried so I started a new one. And, if by "answered" you mean "refuted" then no, the opening post hasn't been refuted.

You opened four threads about the same topic under your nick Sigma. You can see all of them down this same page under "SIMILAR THREADS".

 

[marks]

It's not stated in any writings of God that married couples are required to have sexual intercourse and/or procreate. It's not stated in any writings of God that a married couple is prohibited from taking a vow of chastity for God.

And it's not stated that they did not have sex, nor is it stated that they did not have children, nor is it stated they took an unbiblical chastity vow. Read into it all you want, however, it says they did not have sex until after Jesus was born, so the inference is that they did after that time. Just as God had said is His intent for marriage. And that's the closest you are going to find in the Bible to any sort of statement that answers this issue. Accept it or not, but that's the way it is.

Much love!