Jesus didn't take away our sin, only our punishment

[Joseph77]

Jesus us frees us from our sin nature, at one time we were enslaved to sin and could not stop if we wanted.

But those who are born again now have a choice not sin, we are no longer enslaved to sin. We no longer want to sin, we want to please our heavenly father. We can conquer are flesh through what Jesus has done for us. Thank you Jesus !!

someone can say they forgive if you have sinned against them, but unless you have a new nature, and are born again it does not really matter, for you must be born again to enter heaven, you must be a changed person, the old you no longer exist.

I think, yes, I think ,
that there is 412 verses , in context, in Scripture,
that agree with your post,
and
all Scripture agrees in perfect Harmony with God's Plan and Purpose in Christ Crucified , Jesus Lord and Master.
So, good ground !
(not quicksand)

HALLELUYAH !

 

[charity]

Jesus did not take away our sin only our punishment

2 Peter 2:18-22

'For when they speak great swelling words of vanity,
.. they allure through the lusts of the flesh,
.... through much wantonness,
...... those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
While they promise them liberty,
.. they themselves are the servants of corruption:
.... for of whom a man is overcome,
...... of the same is he brought in bondage.
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world
.. through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ,
.... they are again entangled therein, and overcome,
...... the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness,
.. than, after they have known it,
.... to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb,
.. The dog is turned to his own vomit again;
.... and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.'
(2 Peter 2:18-22)

Hello @CharismaticLady,

Can I ask you about this choice of Scripture as your OP? What is it intended to signify in relation to the subject heading? For these words in 2 Peter 2:18-22 are concerning Seducers, their methods of seduction, and their apostasy. These are they referred to in verses 1 & 2, as 'false prophets' and 'false teachers'.

In verse 9, it says, 'The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptation, ... '

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[CharismaticLady]

Jesus did not take away our sin only our punishment

'For when they speak great swelling words of vanity,
.. they allure through the lusts of the flesh,
.... through much wantonness,
...... those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
While they promise them liberty,
.. they themselves are the servants of corruption:
.... for of whom a man is overcome,
...... of the same is he brought in bondage.
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world
.. through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ,
.... they are again entangled therein, and overcome,
...... the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness,
.. than, after they have known it,
.... to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb,
.. The dog is turned to his own vomit again;
.... and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.'
(2 Peter 2:18-22)

Hello @CharismaticLady,

Can I ask you about this choice of Scripture as your OP? What is it intended to signify in relation to the subject heading? For these words in 2 Peter 2:18-22 are concerning Seducers, their methods of seduction, and their apostasy. These are they referred to in verses 1 & 2, as 'false prophets' and 'false teachers'.

In verse 9, it says, 'The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptation, ... '

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Very astute of you, charity! Yes, the title is sarcasm. But it is quoted to me time and time again on the forums. But Peter calls that doctrine, false. Thus the nullifying scripture.

 

[charity]

'But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb,
The dog is turned to his own vomit again;
and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.'
(2 Peter 2:22)

Hello again, @CharismaticLady,

Looking at 2 Peter 2:22, I knew I had read something in regard to it, which I wanted to find again, in order to share it. So I looked in the book, entitled, 'Figures of Speech used in The Bible', thinking it may be there that I had read it. (2 Peter 2:22) There were* three references to that verse to look up, the *first one was written in relation to 1 Peter 2:25, which was contrasted with Peter 2:22.

'For ye were as sheep going astray;
but are now returned
unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.'
(1 Peter 2:25)

* It said (quote):- 'Here we have Simile, which stands in marked contrast to the Proverb in 2 Peter 2:22, as to the 'sow.' Both the stray sheep and the washed sow 'return.' But the one returns to the shepherd, and the other to the mire. We may note also that the verb 'returned' as used of the 'sheep' is the passive form; while, as used of the 'sow,' it is the active form. Showing that the 'sheep' is made to return by a constraining power, while the 'sow' returns of its own act and free-will.(end of quote)

* The *second reference I looked up was in direct reference to 2 Peter 2:22, quoted above, it said, (quote):- When we contrast this with 1 Peter 2:25, we see how forcible is the difference between the saved sinner and the 'reformed character.' The saint may go astray, and the ungodly may reform; but they both turn again, the one to his Shepherd, and the other to his mire! There is all the difference in the world between a dirty sheep and a washed sow! It is not that which goeth into the mouth that defileth the man, but that which cometh out of the heart (Matt.15:17-20).

The mouth, dish or sepulchre, may be cleansed or whitened without, but within it is all uncleanness (Matthew 23:25-28).
'Man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart' (1 Samuel 16:7).
Truly 'the Lord seeth not as man seeth.

How many hirelings are there who are engaged in merely washing sows and amusing goats, instead of seeking out and feeding Christ's harassed and scattered and famished sheep, who are at their wits' end to know where to find a little green grass, or fresh water, which has not been trodden down with the feet of the goats, or defiled with the 'vomit' of the dogs? (end of quote)

* The *third reference takes me to Proverbs 26:11, which 2 Peter 2:22 is quoted from, 'As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.'

I hope you enjoyed this as I did.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[reformed1689]

I don't believe the title, but do you know how many people believe a Christian still sins? They say we will always sin in this life, but Jesus took away our punishment.

It is funny, how so many don't agree with my title, who are the ones who say this! They don't understand what Jesus accomplished, nor what it means to be born again of the Spirit. It appears that people are reacting to the title and are not even reading the passage that declares that to be a false doctrine. I just used a quote from one of the forum members, but it certainly wasn't mine. Some of my haters, will be against anything I post. Hopefully, they will think twice when declaring the lie that a Christian can't be sinless.

Strawman argument

 

[charity]

Hello once again, @CharismaticLady,

Regarding sin, I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ, in His death and resurrection, dealt with the ROOT of sin, and also took upon Himself the consequences of it, by dying in the place of the lost sinner.

However within every believer there is not only the nature he was born with, but also the New Nature given to him when he was born from above. He is to reckon himself to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ his Lord by faith: for thereby he puts off concerning his old manner of life, the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and is renewed in the spirit of his mind, putting on the New Man which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness (Ephesians 4:22-24).

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Preacher4Truth]

It was from another post, and they are the same ones posting now.

Really now? Your OP is deceptive and misleading, a lie designed for you to accuse of being attacked, something you desire to bring upon yourself. But biblically we are really only truly persecuted for righteous acts, not foolish ones like your thread and title designed to draw fire. You fall on your own sword often.

That said, who in here, in this thread as you seem to suggest, is posting that Jesus only took our punishment but didn't take away our sins? I see no one claiming this.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hello once again, @CharismaticLady,

Regarding sin, I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ, in His death and resurrection, dealt with the ROOT of sin, and also took upon Himself the consequences of it, by dying in the place of the lost sinner.

However within every believer there is not only the nature he was born with, but also the New Nature given to him when he was born from above. He is to reckon himself to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ his Lord by faith: for thereby he puts off concerning his old manner of life, the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and is renewed in the spirit of his mind, putting on the New Man which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness (Ephesians 4:22-24).

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yes, we are not robots, but our new nature hates what his old nature loved. Therefore, to be saved, we must stay walking in the Spirit, for thereby we are partaking of the divine nature of God. Those who return to the old nature and stay there will not inherit the Kingdom of God. The finish line of the race determines the prize. Revelation 22:11 (two paths)

 

[Joseph77]

Therefore, to be saved, we must stay walking in the Spirit, for thereby we are partaking of the divine nature of God.

 

[Joseph77]

I would say, thought provoking.

Not leading to Christ,
not a Word from Scripture, nor from the Creator , but from the flesh.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Not leading to Christ,
not a Word from Scripture, nor from the Creator , but from the flesh.

Did you notice that the first post was NOTHING BUT SCRIPTURE?

Again, not in the right spirit. It was from the father of lies.

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP only. Not having read all the posts, and not saying that any are right or wrong, but consider this. the title is a little ... sneaky ..
which I give credit to the OP for that, it will make one think. but as said condider this. the Lord Jesus God in flesh "took away" the sins of the world .... WHO are in him, Christ Jesus. what is I'm saying. picture this, long ago, there was an insurance company, some may remember, called the travelers insurance company. and one of their logos was an umbrella to demostrate their coverage of protection. now picture rain falling on the umbrella, and that the rain is "sin". Jesus is our umbrella to sin. for sin is still .... raining, scripture, 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us".

see we still have sin, because the world is still in decay, (the effect of sin). but the Lord has taken away our sins and notice the "s" at the end of sins, if we're in him.

now the punishment, yes eternal punishment he took. but we're discipline for correction, Hebrews 12:8 "But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons". and chestisment is another word for "discpline" and it means, the practice of training people to obey rules or a code of behavior, using punishment to correct disobedience.

Hope that helped.

PICJAG.

 

[Joseph77]

Did you notice that the first post (the op) was NOTHING BUT SCRIPTURE?, Again, not in the right spirit. It was from the father of lies.

Yes, I noticed, as do others.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I noticed you don't understand Scripture.

And your posts reflect the world's view, or a false gospel view.

The world's view? So the world is righteous?

 

[SovereignGrace]

More false doctrine from CL.

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (John 1:29)

This not only refutes your title, but also refutes Limited Atonement.

I gave this a 'like' as I agree with John 1:29, and every other verse in the bible, even those I cannot truly comprehend at the moment. I, however, do not agree with what he(Enoch 111) is making it say. It says “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!" Notice how John quoted John the Baptist, "who takes away". It doesn't say he was trying to take away the sin of the world, but "who takes away the sin of the world!" This is referring to the doctrine of expiation, which is the removal of one's guilt. So if the Lamb of God takes away the sin of the world, and 'world' means 'everybody whoever lived', then everybody whoever lived has had their sins, their guilt removed, and everybody whoever lived is saved.

It's the same trap ppl fall into when eisegeting 1 John 2:2. It says and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. The same thing is being expressed here by John as was in John 1:29. 'Propitiation' means 'atoning sacrifice' and the NIV aptly uses that very wording. Now, who was propitiated? It was not man, but God. God was the one offended. Man offended God, and they had to pay Him for the wrong they committed. Yet, man could not do this. He had no way of repairing the damage incurred by Adam's fall in the Garden. That is why the God-man, the Christ came in the flesh. Man sinned, man must repay. The Christ becomes flesh, lives the sinless, perfect life, that no other man could live. When He was imputed the sins of the ones the Father gave Him, He stood before His Father as a guilty sinner. Remember, He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.[2 Corinthians 5:21] He will forever be the sinless, spotless Lamb of God, but He was reckoned a sinner when He was imputed the elect of God's sins. And God dealt with Him as if it was me or another person. This shows the holiness and righteousness of God. He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?[Romans 8:32] It was the Father who delivered His Son over to those who would mock, spit upon, rip the beard from His face, place a crown of thorns upon His head, and nail to the cross. This is what propitiation is. It makes an actual payment to the Father, and the Father was satisfied with the payment the Son made. If He propitiated God for 'everybody whoever lived' sins, then the Father is satisfied for their payment the Christ made, and all are saved. But we know on the day of judgment many will be cast headlong into an eternal lake of fire.

 

[Paul Christensen]

We have been released from the power and penalty of sin, no doubt. But while we are in our mortal body, we still have the presence of sin with us. We reckon ourselves dead to sin, because our bodies have the sentence of death, and we are in a type of 'death row', living out our lives waiting for the appointment that we all have to keep.

The Scripture, "The soul that sins shall surely die" is applied to every human being, and outside of Christ that means physical and spiritual death. But for those in Christ, we are made spiritually alive (ie: born again of the Spirit of God), but we still have the sentence of death in our mortal bodies, and therefore in Christ we mortify our sins by reckoning our sins in our mortal flesh dead - nailed to the cross with Christ.

As Paul says, there is a struggle between our flesh and our spirit. Even though the flesh is on the altar to have the knife through it, it continues to struggle and roar because it doesn't want to die. We would be pretty unrealistic if we didn't have desires in our bodies tempting us to sin. But temptation isn't sin. We have the power to resist it, because we have the Holy Spirit within us.

But I am not living in cloud cuckoo land like the guy on another forum who said, "I have not sinned for the last 30 years!"

But sin does not rule us, according to the Scripture, "Sin shall not have dominion over us" (Romans 6:14).

I believe that if a professing Christian says they don't have a struggle between their spirit and their flesh, there is a doubt whether they are truly born again of the Spirit of God. If Paul had to beat his body into submission so that he wouldn't end up being a castaway, then that shows that we need also to discipline our bodily desires. Peter said for us to be sober and vigilant because the devil goes around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.

A religious hypocrite who is content with his comfortable, imaginary image of God (idolatry) and who just follows what his body wants to do in the mistaken notion that what he does is no longer sin, because his imaginary god has taken away the presence of sin from his body, will get a rude and hobble shock when he comes up before Christ on the day of judgment and is told, "I never knew you. Depart from Me, worker of iniquity!"

So, I am not saying that there is any excuse for holding onto our favourite sins. We are to forsake them, and continue to resist temptation when it comes. We have won the war against sin, but there will be battles to fight until we die and go to be with the Lord.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Still waiting for proof of the posters here who allegedly stated what @CharismaticLady claims they said which became the title she used in this thread.

I've seen zero evidence of this in this thread (she claimed it's happening) or anywhere else on this forum. Looks like yet another 9th commandment violation. I'm pretty sure that shows someone isn't sinlessly perfect as has been claimed, over, and over, and over so we are all sure to take notice.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Now, let us look into all the atonement, propitiation entails. Propitiation means..

==The act of gaining or regaining the favor or goodwill of someone or something : the act of propitiating : APPEASEMENT

It means that God's wrath has been appeased. What does appease mean?

== PACIFY, CONCILIATE especially : to make concessions to (someone, such as an aggressor or a critic) often at the sacrifice of principles

== to cause to subside : ALLAY

Propitiation means that God's wrath has been appeased, pacified, subsided, allayed. If this propitiation to God was for 'everybody whoever lived', then His wrath has been appeased, pacified, subsided, allayed for 'everybody whoever lived', and everybody whoever lived is saved.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Who cares? Are you a christian moron?

Wow! Good bye!!

 

[SovereignGrace]

Why don't you stop this nonsense and go find something worth while to do
with what little time on earth you have left?

Good bye!!