It means what it says it means, "the sins of the whole world".
Jesus has devised more than one way to bring people to him
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She is changing the word of God to mean something other than what God told us. What is such a person called? She cannot accept God's word and so she wants to change it in order for it to fit her theology rather than God's theology.
As I've said before, I believe there is a spiritual reason to explain the inability of fellow Christians to see the truth in the scriptures. The scriptures are very simple and plain and, yet, they cannot or will not acknowledge what they say. At least it's not a salvational issue. It's not like Mark is an atheist or a Muslim. The main thing is that he does believe in Jesus and, hopefully, does his best to follow Jesus. But I share your view and your passion for demonstrating to our brothers and sisters that God isn't an unforgiving, incapable, sadistic, being, that tortures his creation for eternity.
Dear Patrick1966,
Yes, there most certainly is a scriptural reason which explains why "called out" believers cannot understand God's Word.
Here is what God's Word says:
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Only believers who are no longer "babes" and who have been weaned from the milk of the Word are given the ability to understand the truth of scripture.
Paul said this about babes:
1Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
Believers who have only received the Early Rain (Holy Spirit of Promise) will remain carnally minded and spiritually blind. They are not "spiritual" as Paul says. They are carnal and it is mankind's carnality that spiritually blinds a person.
Only AFTER a believer is given the Latter Rain does Christ heal their spiritual blindness. The Latter Rain is what Paul received when the scales fell off His eyes in Damascus. It is also when the blind man in Mark 8:21-25 sees "every man clearly".
The church is full of Early Rain believers who are spiritually blind. That is why there are around 2,000 different denominations and sects of Christianity. They all believe that their version of the truth is accurate but that is not true. Those 2,000 different denominations and sects are places where the blind lead the blind.
This parable applies:
Luke 6:39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?
And because the churches are blind, they have all fallen into the ditch. This means the same as what Isa 28:12 says which I quoted above. All believers shortly after receiving the Early Rain will be led by the hand (why Paul was led by the hand on the Damascus Road) and will "fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken". This event happened near the end of the Apostles ministries when the spirit of anti-Christ devoured the churches the Apostles started. This is the apostasy Paul mentions in 2Thes chapter 2.
Christ also taught this truth here:
Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
The spiritual symbol of an "unclean spirit" represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.
Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit (the Holy Spirit of Promise, Eph 1:13-14), they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.
This verse also applies:
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
The only reason the very Elect (the Apostles) could not be deceived by the spirit of anti-Christ was because they received the Latter Rain and were converted prior to the spirit of anti-Christ coming into the church. After a believer has received the Latter Rain and has their spiritual blindness healed, Satan can no longer deceive them.
For the Elect in the apostate church, when Christ comes to them a second time and pours out the Latter Rain upon them, they will "see" the Abomination of Desolation that personally happened to them when the spirit of anti-Christ indwelt them. Also at that time, the Man of Sin is revealed to them and they find that they are this Man of Sin. When this happens, Christ says for them to "flee to the mountains" (Mat 24:16) because judgment is coming. When it comes, the spirit of anti-Christ and the Great Harlot are "taken" from within the Elect believer (who is now a child of God) and cast into the Lake of Fire for destruction:
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
The spiritual word "two" represents one flesh.
In verse 40, the two men who are in the field represents a believer who has the Holy Spirit (the child of God) and the spirit of anti-Christ (Man of Sin). The spirit of anti-Christ is the one "taken".
In verse 41, the two women who are grinding at the mill also represents one believer who has the Holy Spirit (the child of God) and the Great Harlot (the worsen carnal nature). The Great Harlot is the one who is "taken".
Also of significance, the believer is shown to be "working" (either in the field or at the mill). This represents that the believer has not yet entered into the "rest" of Christ. They are still "working" for their salvation which places them under the Old Covenant of Law. This is why Early Rain believers will be rejected by Christ upon their resurrection from the grave and be judged by the Law in the Lake of Fire.
After the spirit of anti-Christ and the Great Harlot (destroyed in "one hour") are cast into the Lake of Fire, the believer is converted. This happens very quickly when Christ "appears" to them.
From what I presented above, it is no wonder that called out believers, who are under the influence of the spirit of anti-Christ, cannot let go of their false understanding of scripture. They are guided by Satan's "another gospel" which teaches a gospel of "works" rather than the true Gospel which is based solely on faith and the works of Christ.
2Cor 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
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Also, all the Elect will "live" by the words of 2Cor 11:4 and will become "worse than the first" just has Christ taught in Mat 12:43-45.
This verse applies:
Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Until Christ heals a believer's spiritual blindness, no amount of light we try to shine upon them is going to help them see the truth.
The power of God to blind mankind through their carnality is amazing!
This is what you are up against in trying to teach unconverted, fallen away believers that Christ is truly the Savior of the world. If they were to believe it, that truth would bring down their beliefs in the doctrines of Free Will and Hell. But because the spirit of anti-Christ indwells those believers, they cannot accept that truth - at least until the spirit of anti-Christ is "taken out of the way" by Christ when He appears to them.
2Thes 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity (lawlessness) doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked (Man of Sin) be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
The "lie" that they believe is that Satan is Christ and that Satan's gospel of works is the Gospel of Christ.
2Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Joe
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St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
To be fair, I would say that all three doctrines of the final judgment are biblical.
Meaning, there is a biblical defense for each of them.
1) Damnationism
2) Annihilationism
3) Ultimate Redemption (Christian Universalism)
For those who haven't seen it. This is the MOST unbiased presentation on the subject I have ever seen.
Johann
Well-Known Member
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
remember GOD IS LOVE AND HE IS GOOD but HE will never call this act LOVE OR GOOD .
This is a friendly reminder to remind us to not accept what the world calls love
but rather Let the TRUE LOVE of GOD be established upon our hearts .
CHARITY REJOICES IN TRUTH , NOT INIQUITY .
I seen where a near and dear sister left this on another post . Thus i decided to spread it out
for others to be reminded . If we love we correct . But what we dont do
is call sin love .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Yeah but they got to believe in order to be saved .
Lest you want to call paul a liar .
BEWARE lest that come upon you that is written
I work a work in your days , a work that you will in no wise believe though a man declare it unto you .
WONDER and PERISH . PAUL KNEW they had to BELIEVE ON JESUS CHRIST .
YOU OFFER UP ZERO HOPE . Should have preached JESUS CHRIST to BELIEVE ON HIM .
Instead you offer up the world a hope that will save none but condmen all who believed it .
TIME TO PREACH JESUS CHRIST and the DIRE NEED TO BELEIVE ON HIM .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Johann , you raise those hands my friend . THE LORD IS OUR HOPE HE IS OUR SALVATION .
Dear Patrick1966,
Satan masquerades as Christ and from this deception, Satan has devoured the church. Satan accomplishes this deception through the spirit of anti-Christ and his ministers in the apostate church.
2Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Satan's deception is so powerful that Christ said that it could deceive even the very Elect (Mat 24:24).
Paul made this statement about the coming apostasy:
Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
Paul says that he did not cease to warn his churches for 3 years, both night and day with tears, that the wolves were coming to devour the flock, sparing no one.
The coming apostasy of the church was a very big deal for Paul. It greatly distressed him to the point of tears. For three years he warned his churches. The entire second chapter of Thessalonians is about the coming apostasy and the Man of Sin. The apostasy came into the church shortly after Paul's death and nothing in the church has changed since that time.
Next, Judas was a "type" for the Man of Sin, the son of perdition. Here is what scripture says about him:
John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
2Thes 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Luke 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
To become a Man of Sin, Satan will enter into a believer shortly after the person receives the Early Rain. Christ taught this truth in Mat 12:43-45 when he taught about the unclean spirits. The seven unclean spirits who entered into the new believer represents the spirit of anti-Christ. It is through this spirit that Satan masquerades as an angel of light (Christ).
The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares also teaches this truth:
Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this.
In the parable, the good seed represents the Early Rain (Holy Spirit of Promise). The seed which produces the tares represents the spirit of anti-Christ. Once both are within the believer, the Abomination of Desolation occurs. Then, at the time of the harvest, the tares (Man of Sin) are "taken" and burned (judged) in the Lake of Fire. The wheat is gathered into the barn (Kingdom of Heaven).
Also, Daniel's prophecy concerning the Abomination of Desolation teaches this same truth. When the spirit of anti-Christ enters a believer (God's temple), the believer (God's temple) will become desolate.
Dan 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn (Man of Sin, the son of perdition), which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. 10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host (sits in God's temple claiming to be God), and by him the continual sacrifice was taken away (this is Christ's sacrifice on the cross), and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. 12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground (the "another gospel"); and it practised, and prospered (the apostate church numbers over a billion). 13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the continual sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? 14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
The believer (God's temple) is cleansed after 2300 days. This number is a spiritual symbol and it represents the same thing as does the symbol "3 1/2 days" which is used in the story of the Two Witnesses:
Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Both symbols (2300 Days and 3 1/2 Days) represent the time a believer will spend as a Man of Sin, the son of Perdition.
The symbol of 2300 Days is understood as 23x10x10. The number 23 represents the time a believer commits adultery (1Cor 10:8) with Satan and when they "do evil in the sight of the Lord" (2Kin 23:31-32). The number 10 means completeness and the number 2 represents the witness of God. The symbol 2300 Days therefore represents the complete witness of the time a believer is deceived by Satan and commits the Abomination of Desolation. When we apply that meaning to the 2300 Days symbol used in the verse, it fits nicely with the message that Daniel is teaching in chapter 8..
In Matthew chapter 24, Christ also mentions the Abomination of Desolation. Christ says that the believer will "see" the Abomination of Desolation just prior to their judgment coming. This judgment comes immediately after a believer has received the Latter Rain and has been given "eyes that can see". With their new spiritual vision, the believer "sees" the Abomination of Desolation that occurred when the spirit of anti-Christ entered them.
Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Christ also teaches about the spirit of anti-Christ in his message below.
Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
The house (the believer) is divided when it contains both the Holy Spirit and the spirit of anti-Christ. When both indwell the believer, the house (the believer) will fall. This is a referring to the Abomination of Desolation.
This verse below also makes reference to the Abomination of Desolation:
Isa 47:11 Therefore shall evil come upon thee; thou shalt not know from whence it riseth: and mischief shall fall upon thee; thou shalt not be able to put it off: and desolation shall come upon thee suddenly, which thou shalt not know.
Notice that the verse ends with the statement that the believer will "not know". After Satan has deceived a believer through the spirit of anti-Christ, they will not know that it happened. That is the nature of being deceived.
Because of Satan's deception, the church is following "another Jesus, "another gospel" and "another spirit":
2Cor 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
The "another Jesus" is Satan who is masquerading as an angel of light (Christ). As I said in my previous post, this is the lie that the church believes. It can be nothing else.
Joe
Joe, @FaithWillDo
I like your post # 273, it is very indepth and methodically written.
However I'm not so sure of your use on the phrases " early rain, latter rain".
Would you care to start a thread or have you a thread here on exactly what you are calling these and their purposes?
I'm sure many will be viewing to ascertain your use of these.
Thanks.
I like your post # 273, it is very indepth and methodically written.
However I'm not so sure of your use on the phrases " early rain, latter rain".
Would you care to start a thread or have you a thread here on exactly what you are calling these and their purposes?
I'm sure many will be viewing to ascertain your use of these.
Thanks.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Latter Rain/Holiness Movement.
What is the Latter Rain Movement? | GotQuestions.org
Latter Rain (1880s movement) - Wikipedia
Johann
Well-Known Member
Be careful-that's all I want to say.
Johann.
I love you brother and thank you.
But have you not said I have spiritual discernment ?
I follow only Jesus and the Spirit of God .
It is as our beloved @amigo de christo says," stay plugged in them bibles", I bees plugged into God's word. If it isn't there, it is heresy !
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Dear L3astAmManyB13ssd:
I have written a great deal about the Early and Latter Rain in other threads. It is one of my favorite teachings of scripture. It is also a subject which is taught frequently in scripture, however, most times it does not use the terms Early and Latter Rain.
James mentions the symbols here:
Jam 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
Here is a short explanation of the Early and Latter Rain:
"Rain" is a symbol for the Holy Spirit. When the Early Rain falls on an unbeliever, they are "called out from the world" and they will enter the church.
The Early Rain is the same as the Holy Spirit of Promise which Paul uses in the scripture below:
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of Promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
The Early Rain is an "earnest amount" of the Spirit. It will give the believer a measure of faith and certain spiritual gifts. However, since the Spirit is only the down payment of the full amount to be given later (the Latter Rain, Baptism of the Holy Spirit), it will leave the believer carnally minded and spiritually blind.
Paul received the Early Rain on the Damascus Road. At that time, Paul became blind to "type" his spiritual blindness. This is when Paul first called Jesus "Lord". Because of Paul's blindness, Paul was led by the hand into Damascus (types the blind leading the blind).
The story of the blind man in Mark 8:21-25 also teaches this truth about spiritual blindness.
Because the believer is left spiritually blind after receiving the Early Rain, the truth of God's Word will remain "veiled". Because the believer cannot understand or receive the truth of Christ, Satan is able to deceive the new believer. Satan does this by planting his seed (spirit of anti-Christ) within the believer (Parable of the Wheat and the Tares). This will cause the believer to "fall away" and spiritually die (lose their salvation). As I said in my previous post, this is the spiritual fulfillment of the Abomination of Desolation.
A fallen away believer will remain in this lost spiritual state until they either die or until Christ comes to them a second time with the Latter Rain. This event is commonly called the Second Coming of Christ.
Christ's second coming is a spiritual event and a reoccurring event. The Second Coming of Christ first occurred on the Day of Pentecost for the 120 Jewish Elect believers. It has occurred again within the life of each Elect believer since that time.
Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne...
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
For the Elect, Christ comes to them quickly before they die.
Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Christ's Second Coming is not a one-time visible return to this world at the end of this age as it is commonly taught. This is a false teaching.
Paul received the Latter Rain when Ananias came to Paul after Paul spent 3 days in Damascus. During the three days, Paul remained blind and was unable to eat or drink (bread of Christ, New Wine). Ananias was a "type" for Christ. When Ananias came to Paul, he gave Paul the Latter Rain and the scales immediately fell off Paul's eyes. This is when a believer is given "eyes that can see". This spiritual phrase means that a believer can now spiritually understand the truth of scripture. This is what the Lord's Supper and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb represent. It is the time when Christ feeds a believer His truth of milk, bread, meat and New Wine. After Paul's blindness was healed, Paul was told to "eat meat". Paul was then able to consume the strongest truth taught in God's Word.
In short, the Early Rain calls an unbeliever out from the world. However, it is only the down payment of the full amount which is given later when Christ "comes again" with the Latter Rain. Both rains are required before a believer can be converted and saved.
Elijah's 3 1/2 years of drought teaches the Early and Latter Rain. After the Early Rain, the drought begins and lasts for a symbolic 3 1/2 years until the Latter Rain falls.
Also, there are 3 1/2 years remaining of Daniel's Seventy Weeks Prophecy. The last 3 1/2 years begins within a believer when they receive the Early Rain and it ends when they receive the Latter Rain. This symbolic time period is also called 42 months, 1260 days and time, times and a half. Whenever you see these symbols mentioned in scripture, you will know that it is talking about the time a believer spends between the Early and Latter Rain.
Joe
Dear St. SteVen,Latter Rain/Holiness Movement.
What is the Latter Rain Movement? | GotQuestions.org
Latter Rain (1880s movement) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
I do not teach the "Latter Rain Movement".
Like the Second Coming of Christ, the Early and Latter Rain is a greatly misunderstood teaching in scripture.
Please see my post to L3astAmManyB13ssd above which will explain my understanding of the Early and Latter Rain.
Joe
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