Jesus has devised more than one way to bring people to him

[Patrick1966]

St. SteVen said:

Interestingly, there is no record of anyone doing that in the Bible.
(baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit)

I see the commands, but I see no obedience in the NT scriptures. What happened?

Acts 19:1-7 NIV
While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when[a] you believed?”
They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues[b] and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.

I wish that I could say that I believe that I am filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[St. SteVen]

I wish that I could say that I believe that I am filled with the Holy Spirit.

Should we discuss that here, or via PM?

You can confidently say that you are filled with the Holy Spirit as a believer.
But perhaps you are referring to the subsequent experience of being Baptized with the Holy Spirit? See Acts 1:5
We saw evidence in the scripture I posted above.
"... the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied." Acts 19:6 NIV

 

[Patrick1966]

Should we discuss that here, or via PM?

You can confidently say that you are filled with the Holy Spirit as a believer.
But perhaps you are referring to the subsequent experience of being Baptized with the Holy Spirit? See Acts 1:5
We saw evidence in the scripture I posted above.
"... the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied." Acts 19:6 NIV

I'm not afraid or embarrassed to publicly admit that I am a sinner and am unable to refrain from continuing in sin. I don't "revel" in sin, but I struggle with sin. Drink too much. Eat too much. Lazy too much. Get angry with other drivers too much. With that said, I am generally pretty friendly with others and enjoy the opportunity to make them laugh. I just wish I was the person my dog thinks I am!

 

[St. SteVen]

@Patrick1966
We all struggle with sin. Being filled with the Holy Spirit does not change that fact.
It does help us to be more aware of sin, and therefore able to act on it quickly.

We need to make good choices about how we spend our time.
Easy to get into a rut and continue the same bad habits.

My advice...
If you find yourself there, make an intentional move to do something more productive.

I had to do this to myself earlier today. I asked myself: "Do I continue to play this computer game,
or go play my guitar that I am neglecting?" Happy to say I went for the guitar.
Not a huge deal, I know. But that is a helpful method. IMHO

 

[St. SteVen]

I just wish I was the person my dog thinks I am!

LOL
That got you a funny reaction.
Truth is, you ARE the person your dog thinks you are.
Someone else is trying to convince you otherwise.

https://soundcloud.com/user-426611522%2Fdevil-talkin

 

[St. SteVen]

Mainstream Christianity says that the ONLY way to salvation is to accept Jesus in THIS lifetime.

This is certainly the mantra of evangelicalism. Not even the only view in Christianity.
So, the mainstream evangelical view is at odds with, if not flatly denying, the rest of the church, the Body of Christ.
Basically claiming that evangelicalism offers the ONLY means of salvation.

And, as I understand it, most Protestants were raised to believe that Catholicism is wrong; and...
most Catholics were raised to believe that Protestantism is wrong. As I understand it.

 

[St. SteVen]

Mainstream Christianity says that the ONLY way to salvation is to accept Jesus in THIS lifetime.

There are many facets to this issue of salvation.
In fact, if salvation is a matter of accepting Jesus, then we must save ourselves by doing so.

Like the self-checkout lane at the grocery store.
Look up item: SALVATION >Quantity needed: 1 > PAY NOW >>> Say what? ???
Wait... I thought this was already paid for. What's wrong with this picture? - LOL

 

[L.A.M.B.]

I'm pondering that Universal Christianity or universal reconciliation is far more dangerous to espouse than making a confession to a priest in a booth !

 

[St. SteVen]

Mainstream Christianity says that the ONLY way to salvation is to accept Jesus in THIS lifetime.

Just to be clear...
Accepting Jesus is a good thing, and beneficial.
Assuming this means establishing, or re-establishing a personal relationship with God.
However...

If it is done out of fear for the sole purpose of fire escape, can we really call that salvation?
Is this what God intended for us? His plan for humankind? Unleash fury on his own creation?

Is this not a misuse of the gospel? A fear-based decision, a confession obtained under duress?
An act of spiritual extortion? Believe, or burn?

 

[St. SteVen]

I'm pondering that Universal Christianity or universal reconciliation is far more dangerous to espouse than making a confession to a priest in a booth !

Why is that?

 

[dev553344]

Mainstream Christianity says that the ONLY way to salvation is to accept Jesus in THIS lifetime. However, the verse below is evidence that that belief is inaccurate.

Notice the plural in "devices" in the following verse.

2 Samuel 14:14
14 for we do surely die, and [are] as water which is running down to the earth, which is not gathered, and God doth not accept a person, and hath devised devices in that the outcast is not outcast by Him.

Notice that the verse does NOT say "hath devised a device" (singular).

Preferably, people willingly go to Jesus while in the physical world. By doing so they purify themselves and are saved and healed the nice and easy way.

1 John 3:3 CLNT demonstrates that those who look to Christ purify themselves:
3 And everyone who has this expectation in Him is purifying himself, according as He is pure.

I think 1 John 3:3 also implies that EVERYONE will be purified but that those who look to Christ purify themselves.

So, what is/are the other "devices" that Jesus uses to purify people so that they do not remain an outcast?

My belief is, the Lake of Fire.

@St. SteVen
@FaithWillDo

You are making assumptions about the devices and what they are. So no I don't follow your logic here. God has an altar and sacrifices which were used in the old testament for salvation in likeness to the lamb of God or Christ. Those are more likely the devices he was referring to. Samuel is from the Old Testament during the time of animal sacrifice.

 

[rwb]

St. SteVen said:

Interestingly, there is no record of anyone doing that in the Bible.
(baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit)

I see the commands, but I see no obedience in the NT scriptures. What happened?

Acts 19:1-7 NIV
While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when[a] you believed?”
They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues[b] and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.

It seems to me you are making much ado over nothing!

 

[L.A.M.B.]

IT'S ALL ABOUT TEARING DOWN AND ANNULLING THE VERY WORD OF GOD !

God has given the formula by his Son and ONLY by Jesus, as the way any man can be reconciled to the Father, THRU HIS SON, JESUS !

UR, baptism for salvation, baptism of the Holy Ghost by repeating a gibberish montage ect., all these and more are CORRUPTED countermeasures by which satan deceives and is trying to deceive man !

All that take part in the lie, will have their part with satan in the lake of fire. Probably don't believe that is truth either !

 

[Patrick1966]

IT'S ALL ABOUT TEARING DOWN AND ANNULLING THE VERY WORD OF GOD !

God has given the formula by his Son and ONLY by Jesus, as the way any man can be reconciled to the Father, THRU HIS SON, JESUS !

UR, baptism for salvation, baptism of the Holy Ghost by repeating a gibberish montage ect., all these and more are CORRUPTED countermeasures by which satan deceives and is trying to deceive man !

All that take part in the lie, will have their part with satan in the lake of fire. Probably don't believe that is truth either !

Do you want to address the verse in the OP about how Jesus has devised DEVICES to prevent the outcast from being banished forever?

 

[Patrick1966]

Just to be clear...
Accepting Jesus is a good thing, and beneficial.

Of course. That is the best and easiest way to eternal life in paradise with God.

But as the verse states, Jesus devised DEVICES (more than one way) to be saved. Yes, ALL paths to salvation go through Jesus. There is NO OTHER way. However, mainstream Christianity, without biblical support, claims that once a person is dead there is no more hope for salvation. Obviously, that is FALSE.

I'm waiting for the plethora of Bible scholars here to explain what the other "devices" are from the verse. So far they're...

 

[St. SteVen]

It seems to me you are making much ado over nothing!

Sure, ultimately it probably doesn't matter.
But have we been doing it wrong all this time?
And why was Jesus specific command instructions ignored in the first century?
Was this inserted later?

 

[Lambano]

So, what is/are the other "devices" that Jesus uses to purify people so that they do not remain an outcast?

My belief is, the Lake of Fire.

Did everybody read the context of the 2 Samuel 14:14 verse quoted in the OP? It was part of an elaborate subterfuge devised by David's shadowy hatchet man Joab to trick David into repatriating Absolom, who had been exiled for murdering his brother Amnon for raping his sister Tamar. David agreed (though he saw through Joab's ruse), and the result was a bloody civil war that got Absolom, Joab, and a lotta other people killed. Ugh. What a sordid mess.

I suppose we could build our soteriology around that.

The lesson-learned from 2 Samuel may be that if Exile to Purgatory doesn't change a man, the only alternative is death. Hades would be my choice for Purgatory; see the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man. The Lake of Fire is the final death.

 

[Johann]

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

You should have highlighted-

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

specially. Occurs in the N.T. twelve times. Rendered "specially", "especially "(nine); "most of all" (Act_20:36); "chiefly" (Php_1:4, Php_1:22. 2Pe_2:10).

those that believe = the believing.
The statement is more unreservedly universalist in tone than chap. 1Ti_2:4 and Tit_2:11; and perhaps must be qualified by saying that while God is potentially Saviour of all, He is actually Saviour of the πιστοί.

It is an argument a minori ad majus (as Bengel says); and the unqualified assertion is suitable. If all men can be saved, surely the πιστοί are saved, in whose number we are included.

It is better to qualify the statement thus than, with Chrys. and Bengel, to give to σωτήρ a material sense of God’s relation to all men, as the God of nature; but a spiritual sense of His relation to them that believe, as the God of grace. ch. 1Ti_1:1; 1Ti_2:4.

"who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers" The title "savior" is used quite often in the Pastoral Letters (cf. 1 Tim. 1:1; 2:3; 2 Tim. 1:10; Titus 1:3-4; 2:10-13; 3:4,6). In earlier chapters of 1 Timothy it is used of God as the Redeemer, potentially, of all mankind (cf. 1 Tim. 2:4,6; Luke 2:11; John 1:29; 4:42; Rom. 5:18-19; 2 Pet. 3:9). See full note at 2 Tim. 1:10. Possibly because of the little phrase "especially of believers" (where one would theologically expect "only") it may be used in its OT sense of Elohim, who is "protector" or "provider" of all life on earth (cf. Matt. 5:45; Acts 17:28).


Saviour of all men (sōtēr pantōn anthrōpōn). See note on 1Ti_1:1 for sōtēr applied to God as here. Not that all men “are saved” in the full sense, but God gives life (1Ti_6:13) to all (Act_17:28).

Specially of them that believe (malista pistōn). Making a distinction in the kinds of salvation meant. “While God is potentially Saviour of all, He is actually Saviour of the pistoi” (White). So Jesus is termed “Saviour of the World” (Joh_4:42). Cf. Gal_6:10.
RWS

You have taken one verse and promulgate "several ways" to God-when there is only ONE Dereck/Hodos

will: Isa_45:22, Isa_49:6, Isa_55:1; Eze_18:23, Eze_18:32, Eze_33:11; Luk_14:23; Joh_3:15-17; Joh_6:37; Rom_3:29-30; 2Co_5:17-19; 1Th_2:15-16; Tit_2:11; 2Pe_3:9
and: Mat_28:19; Mar_16:15; Luk_24:47; Rom_10:12-15; Rev_14:6
the knowledge: Isa_53:11; Hab_2:14; Luk_1:77; Joh_14:6, Joh_17:17; 2Ti_2:25, 2Ti_3:7; Heb_10:26


Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.


I am the Bread of Life (John 6:35)
I am the Light of the World (John 8:12)
I am the Door (John 10:9)
I am the Good Shepherd (John 10:11,14)
I am the Resurrection and the Life (John 11:25)
I am the Way and the Truth and the Life (John 14:6)
I am the Vine (John 15:1,5)

You really should change the title of your OP-there are NOT several ways to God or Jesus.
J.

 

[Lambano]

For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

Is being "especially saved" even better than just plain being saved?

 

[Johann]

Is being "especially saved" even better than just plain being saved?

What's the matter @Lambano -you a Universalist?
J.