Jesus has devised more than one way to bring people to him

[rwb]

Right, we don't know.
I balked at the idea initially too.
But I can only find reference to baptisms in Jesus' name in the NT record.
Especially the Acts of the Apostles. And Paul made no mention of the Trinity in baptism.

This would have been a good opportunity to mention it. Not there.

Romans 6:3 NIV
Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

It seems almost redundant since God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are three yet ONE God. Rhetorical question: Would not baptizing in the name of Christ Jesus equally be baptizing into Father, and Holy Spirit also???

 

[Lambano]

Perhaps I do.

Have you ever been inside a foundry building? It's where they pour molten metal into molds.
As I'm sure you already know.

It's a hot and uncomfortable place to be.
If the choice was between being released from that place, or going into the furnace...
Who would choose the furnace?

I've never done Prison Ministry, but I've met a couple of guys who do. God calls special people to that kind of work - and it ain't me, babe. Anyway, some people come out of The Joint willing to do whatever it takes to keep from EVER going back. But some of the hardcases come out with a big chip on their shoulders towards the society that exiled them there, like Absolom in the Second Sammy story.

 

[amigo de christo]

You betcha!
J.

I just returned from pulling up and cutting down a whole mess of weeds before it got hot .
Yes indeed my friend . To JESUS CHRIST alone shall the lambs point .

 

[amigo de christo]

Incorrect.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I am HaDerech, HaEmes, and HaChayyim. No one comes to HaAv except through me [1Sm 3:7].

Λέγει αὐτῷ ‹ὁ› Ἰησοῦς “Ἐγώ εἰμι ἡ ὁδὸς καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια καὶ ἡ ζωή· οὐδεὶς ἔρχεται πρὸς τὸν Πατέρα εἰ μὴ δι’ ἐμοῦ.

Three Definite Articles in one verse-not WAY'S--

ὁδὸς
Transliteration: hodos
Morphology: N-NFS
Noun - Nominative Feminine Singular
Strong's no.: G3598 (ὁδός, ὁδοποιέω)
Meaning: A way, road, journey, path.
2) "I am the way, the truth, and the life:” (ego eimi he hodos kai he aletheia kai he zoe)

"I am (exist as) the way, and the truth, and the life;" Joh_1:4-5, He is the way, the restricted way, Act_4:12; Act_10:43. He is the truth, who sets men free or liberates them from the slave chains of sin, Joh_8:32; Joh_8:36. He is the Life, without which men are dead in trespasses and in sin, Eph_2:1-2; Joh_8:12; Joh_10:27-28.

3) "No man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (oudes erchetai pros tou patera ei me de' emou) "No one comes of his own choice to the Father, except through me," as drawn by the Father, by the Spirit, who has been sent from the Father, to reprove and convict, Pro_1:20-32; Joh_16:7-11; Rev_22:17.

Jesus is the way of access to God by the atonement, Isa_25:8-9; Joh_10:9; Heb_10:19-20. And He is the fountain of all truth, so that both He and His word are true, genuine, real from the beginning, Psa_119:160; Joh_8:32; Joh_8:36; Joh_17:17. And He is the life to which the way leads, and the life points to Him, Joh_1:17; Joh_10:27-28.

The Two Ways in Mat_7:13-14. Jesus uses the image of the two ways in Mat_7:13-14 (cf. Luk_13:24). The first thought is that of entering by the narrow gate, but this seems to be a parallel metaphor—the gate does not lead on to the way. Thus the way is narrow (or broad) as well as the gate, in contrast to other descriptions of the right way.

There are no exact parallels to Jesus' presentation, although gate and way are sometimes brought together, e.g., the little gate that leads on to a difficult way, or the narrow path or entrance. It is unlikely that Mat_7:13 is directly related to 7:12 (the golden rule), nor is the door to be seen as entry into God's kingdom (as in Luk_13:24).

Again, the narrow way is not just that of piety in contrast to the broad way of vice and frivolity, although such an understanding might fit in with the call of Jesus for conversion. Furthermore, the saying is not primarily polemical, i.e., directed against the Pharisaical view of the law. What we have is a summons to discipleship.

Jesus' demands are severe.

Hence the gate is narrow and the way is hard. But there is no other way to life. If there are few on this way, it is not because it is too small, but because people like an easier path.

The few of v. 14 are disciples; the many of v. 13 are those who refuse discipleship. "Way" does not denote the way of life of disciples but what Jesus expects of them. Like "gate," "way" has the connotation of entry. The destination, then, is mentioned, either life or destruction.

"Finding" in v. 14 does not imply choice among many ways, or trying to find a path in difficult terrain, or coming across a narrow entry after a lengthy search.

It involves the mystery of the divine action whereby those who seek will find. Although Mat_7:13-14 does not explicitly say so, the way is found in Christ himself; it is he who makes possible our entry on it.

Your erroneous assertion is debunked by Scriptures.
Johann.

Flood this place with tons of reminders of the pure and holy biblical doctrine of OUR LORD and SAVOIR
the CHRIST OF GOD , The King of kings .
The dark unifyer takes not time off in its false unifying through deception of a love and paths that cannot save
but will condemn . it takes no time off . Thus the lambs shall take no time off and do exploits pointing to CHRIST ALONE
and reminding all with all pure and lovely words of GOD of the truth . march on my friend . march onwards in the glorious Lord .
Like i said a while back , if we give the dark one even a millimeter of foot space , IT WILL INVADE and take over THE ENTIRE
place . For even but a little leaven can indeed leaven up the place full . Hit those trenches in these final days upon earth
And let us be doing all to bring glory and honor unto HE who has saved us . March on my friend .

 

[St. SteVen]

It seems almost redundant since God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are three yet ONE God. Rhetorical question: Would not baptizing in the name of Christ Jesus equally be baptizing into Father, and Holy Spirit also???

Just to be clear, I'm not opposed to baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Only curious about why there is only the one mention of it and no confirmation anywhere else.

Do you believe that Mary is the Mother of God? A similar argument is used to explain that.
If Jesus is God, and Mary is his mother, then Mary is the Mother of God.

 

[St. SteVen]

I've never done Prison Ministry, but I've met a couple of guys who do. God calls special people to that kind of work - and it ain't me, babe. Anyway, some people come out of The Joint willing to do whatever it takes to keep from EVER going back. But some of the hardcases come out with a big chip on their shoulders towards the society that exiled them there, like Absolom in the Second Sammy story.

I have done prison ministry in four or five institutions.
Granted, I only had contact with those coming to our Bible study.
I used to get more out of that than church on Sunday.

 

[amigo de christo]

The dark one who unifies the world as one against GOD , CHRIST and the saints rests not day or night .
It comes for one reason and one reason alone . To decieve , to allure through false love , through love
and unity that accepts all paths and even sins . It is a liar and the Father of lies .
it works through men whose faith is NOT IN CHRIST ALONE .
And it comes to gather the world as one right under A LIE that will save none .
For it sets not the captives free , but desires the death and destruction of all humanity.
ONLY IN CHRIST JESUS , FAITH IN HE WHOM GOD DID SEND , can one be saved .
And if we are of HIM , our fruits given us by the SPIRIT will prove it .
Do not be decieved . Satan can quaote all scripture but he will twist it and so do those who do his work .
Believing themselves to have become enlightened unto knowledge they believe has set them free .
IT HAS NOT . no man can be set free , BUT THOSE WHOSE FAITH IS IN JESUS CHRIST .
YE MUST BELIEVE IN HE WHOM GOD DID SEND . REJECT HIM , AND YOU HAVE REJECTED GOD WHO SENT HIM .

 

[St. SteVen]

It seems almost redundant since God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are three yet ONE God. Rhetorical question: Would not baptizing in the name of Christ Jesus equally be baptizing into Father, and Holy Spirit also???

I wondered if the accounts in Acts were being careful to differentiate between John's baptism and baptism in Jesus.
But with no confirmations anywhere else of baptism in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit...
Makes you wonder.

Another missed opportunity here.

1 Corinthians 1:13-15 NIV
Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius,
15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name.

 

[rwb]

Just to be clear, I'm not opposed to baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Only curious about why there is only the one mention of it and no conformation anywhere else.

Do you believe that Mary is the Mother of God? A similar argument is used to explain that.
If Jesus is God, and Mary is his mother, then Mary is the Mother of God.

I get your point. Mary is the mother of Jesus as He walked the earth in human form. The difference between Jesus and all other humans of course is that He alone was physically born without the human male sperm. That's why He is said to be fully human, while also fully God in the flesh. His humanity comes from the egg from His human mother, Mary, and His Divinity or Holiness from God, the Holy Spirit.

Luke 1:35 (KJV) And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

 

[St. SteVen]

Another missed opportunity here.

cc: @rwb

Galatians 3:26-28 NIV
So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith,
27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female,
for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Just to be clear, I'm not opposed to baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Only curious about why there is only the one mention of it and no conformation anywhere else.
Do you believe that Mary is the Mother of God? A similar argument is used to explain that.
If Jesus is God, and Mary is his mother, then Mary is the Mother of God.

I get your point.

But that wasn't my point.
I'm saying you can't assume baptism "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"
to baptism in Jesus' name by inferring it means the whole Trinity since Jesus is a part.

Baptism is a ceremony. The words used are very important.

 

[amigo de christo]

My friend johann has arrived .

 

[St. SteVen]

I wondered if the accounts in Acts were being careful to differentiate between John's baptism and baptism in Jesus.

cc; @rwb

Another issue is the introduction of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit in the book of Acts.
So, there were three baptisms to differentiate.
1) John's baptism
2) The baptism with the Holy Spirit
3) Baptism in Jesus' name

Acts 1:5 NIV
For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days
you will be baptized with[b] the Holy Spirit.”

Acts 2:38 NIV
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you,
in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.
And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Johann]

Flood this place with tons of reminders of the pure and holy biblical doctrine of OUR LORD and SAVOIR
the CHRIST OF GOD , The King of kings .

And tons of threads will be locked with the constant reminders brother-we have a problem, not afraid to say it.
J.

 

[amigo de christo]

And tons of threads will be locked with the constant reminders brother-we have a problem, not afraid to say it.
J.

And it can be said in any language . Personas , tenemos una problema . WE DO have a problem that has arisen
huge within even our own churches . The HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL is being TROD UNDER FOOT
and all for a wordly version of love that will not save them . OH we got problems . Tenemos problemas en la casa
en muchos iglesias , en el mundo . And its spreading like wild fire on dry grass too .
STAND for the TRUE FAITH MY FRIEND . Let all who name the name of CHRIST stand and contend for the true faith
correcting any and all errors . A house built upon the whims of men gone wrong is a HOUSE that SURELY FALLS .
But a HOUSE built upon the SOLID ROCK CHRIST JESUS , is a house that no matter how hard
the winds of persecution comes against , THAT HOUSE WILL STAND . To the trenches my soliders of the LORD
its all out war for the souls of men and TRUTH MUST BE SPOKEN .

 

[Johann]

en muchos iglesias , en el mundo .

Tenemos problemas con ALGUNOS miembros del personal hermano.

Problematic.
J.

 

[amigo de christo]

Tenemos problemas con ALGUNOS miembros del personal hermano.

Problematic.
J.

Some indeed . its time to contend for the true faith and every word of the LORD .
March on my friend .

 

[St. SteVen]

@rwb

This may be the best defense for my point.
What happened between Matthew 28:19 and Acts 2:38 ?

Acts 2:38 NIV
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you,
in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.
And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 28:19 NIV
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them
in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

 

[Johann]

This may be the best defense for my point.
What happened between Matthew 28:19 and Acts 2:38 ?

You err-

"in the name of Jesus Christ" This is a Hebrew idiom (reflected in Joel 2:32) which refers to the person or character of Jesus.

It may be that the early church's baptismal formula, which was probably repeated by the candidate, was "I believe Jesus is Lord" (cf. Rom. 10:9-13; 1 Cor. 1:13,15).
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1Co 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Co 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1Co 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

This was both a theological affirmation and a personal trust affirmation. In the Great Commission of Matt. 28:19-20 the triune name is the baptismal formula.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3) "Baptizing them," (baptizontes autous) "Baptizing or immersing them," as disciples who have been led to believe in me, baptizing the saved, Act_2:41; Joh_1:11-12; note it was the church "ye" that the mandate to baptize was given, not to individuals or ministers in isolation from the church.

4) "In the name of," (eis to onoma tou) "Into, or with reference to," to the call and leadership of: Such is therefore to be done by the church, under the executive and administrative authority of the church, Col_3:17; as directed by Jesus who is head of and over all things to the church, Eph_1:22-23.
----------------------------------------------------

2) "Repent," (metanoesate) "You all repent;” The "you all" refers to all who had asked what they might do- -not just to be saved, but also to have a right testimony before the world. The second person plural "you all' were commanded to repent, Luk_13:3; Luk_13:5; Act_3:19 for repentance brings conversion into life, Act_11:18.

3) "And be baptized every one of you," (kai baptistheto hekatos humon) "And let each one of you (individually), who has repented, (or been converted unto life) be baptized," only those who have repented unto God, and placed faith in the crucified one, those who in repentance have been converted unto life are exhorted to be baptized, that they may be identified as followers of the one against whom they once stood as enemies.

4) "In the name of Jesus Christ,"(epi to onomati lesou Christous) "Relying upon the name of Jesus Christ," by the authority of Jesus Christ, as authorized, approved by Jesus Christ; He authorized and approved for baptism only such as had first become converted, disciples, received forgiveness of sins, and become His children, Mat_28:18-20.

5) "For the remission of sins," (eis aphesin ton hamartion humon) "With reference to the forgiveness of your sins;” The Greek “eis” means "with reference to" remission of sins for each of you who has repented, it is becoming that each of you be baptized to acknowledge that you have received and desire to follow Jesus Christ whom you crucified.


This passage, when taken in contextual setting, has no enigmas, hidden mysteries, or complex meanings. Nor is it necessary for one to be a Greek Scholar or Oriental mystic to set forth its basic meaning.
Under the gospel witnessing of the Holy Ghost Power which had comedown to the church and upon the church, as the Promised comforter, the church had witnessed of Jesus Christ in power in tongues and dialects understood by Jews from three continents and more than fifteen nations.
In this context Peter charged that the Israelites (Jews) with wicked hands had crucified the promised Redeemer who had been resurrected, met with them, then ascended to heaven, awaiting the hour when He would return to judge all men, including them for their wicked deeds.

Under the gospel witnessing and judgement preaching of Peter they cried out, "what shall or should we do?" Peter responded by telling them that they should all do two things: 1 ) First, all should, and he imperatively commanded them, "you all repent," Second person active plural.

This was that they might have their sins remitted, be converted, or be granted eternal life, Act_3:19; Act_11:18; Act_17:30-31; 2Co_7:10.

2) Second, to all who repent, were converted, he added, "Let each of you be baptized with reference to remission of your sins," "each of you" is third person singular and "be baptized" is passive; Then each too would receive the gift or benefit of the gift of the Holy Ghost upon the church forever, Joh_14:16-17.


Again we must guard against a mechanical sacramentalism! The title or formula is not the key, but the heart of the one being baptized.

-and this is what you are doing-making it a "sacrament"

J.

 

[amigo de christo]