Jesus is either God or is not God: There is no 'In Between'

[Ed McKee]

“In the beginning was the plan of Yahweh, and the plan was with Yahweh, and the plan was Yahweh’s. The same plan was in the beginning with Yahweh. All things were done according to it, and without it nothing was done, that was done. In this plan was life, and that life was the light to mankind. Now that light shines in the darkness, but the darkness does not take hold of it.”

(Yisrael Hawkins, The Book of Yahweh: The Holy Scriptures, John 1:1-5)

Inserting “Jesus” or “Son of God “ or “an angel” “or “a man” in these passages changes the thought and intention of John.

 

[Ed McKee]

Not sure why you wrote this or what you're implying. At first I thought we were seeing things similarly but you're losing me with the way you think. Sorry, but I don't think a conversation with you would benefit either one of us. Love and prayers to you. I wish you nothing but the best.

 

[Johann]

Hi Johann, I got an email saying you replied with this: "You reckon yourself a scholar? Or do you read your info from others and THEN critique as to what is, and what not, is fallible, or infallible?
J.", but it sees to have disappeared. If you don't mind I'll respond here.

I don't reckon myself a scholar, far from it but I do know how to read and have above average common sense. I have done a lot of bible study many years ago and still do from time to time. I still remember a lot of what I learned back then but have trouble remembering the scriptures, so the internet comes in handy for an old guy.

It's not hard to find scriptures that are spurious and they must be thrown out. It is just a very tiny fraction of what is in todays bible. Probably way less that .0001% of what is there. Some of them however are there to promote a false believe. Isaiah 9:6 is one such verse. For years I couldn't figure out why that verse said what it did and then one day (years ago, at one time we didn't have internet) I stumbled across the fact that part of it was not in the Dead Sea scrolls or the Septuagint. An important part. "Mighty God" and "Eternal Father".

So I read the Bible with Strong's Concordance and an interlinear at my side just so I get a accurate picture of what is being said. Works for me.

Hi Ed, I would say Dr. Michael Brown would disagree with you and so am I.
I have a "feeling" my posts are being monitored.
However, rabbi Tovia Singer and his team would definitely agree with you.
J.

 

[Matthias]

Not sure why you wrote this or what you're implying.

I was presenting my position to a general audience.

At first I thought we were seeing things similarly but you're losing me with the way you think.

You’ve already established that. I don’t disagree with it.

Sorry, but I don't think a conversation with you would benefit either one of us.

I believe a conversation with you would benefit me, but follow your conscience.

Do you think a conversation with the trinitarians will benefit you? Do you think a conversation with the trinitarians will benefit them? Outside of our theologies, what makes them different from me in your mind?

Consider these rhetorical questions if you like. I would like an answer to them, but I don’t need an answer to them.

Love and prayers to you. I wish you nothing but the best.

Thank you.

 

[Ed McKee]

Hi Ed, I would say Dr. Michael Brown would disagree with you and so am I.
I have a "feeling" my posts are being monitored.
However, rabbi Tovia Singer and his team would definitely agree with you.
J.

What do you think Dr. Brown would disagree with me about, the fact that spurious scriptures should be ignored?
Why do you think your posts are being monitored?

 

[Johann]

What do you think Dr. Brown would disagree with me about, the fact that spurious scriptures should be ignored?
Why do you think your posts are being monitored?

The fact that what YOU are saying is spurious is NOT spurious.
J.

 

[Johann]

I was presenting my position to a general audience.



You’ve already established that. I don’t disagree with it.



I believe a conversation with you would benefit me, but follow your conscience.

Do you think a conversation with the trinitarians will benefit you? Do you think a conversation with the trinitarians will benefit them? Outside of our theologies, what makes them different from me in your mind?

Consider these rhetorical questions if you like. I would like an answer to them, but I don’t need an answer to them.



Thank you.

Guess he is wrong hey?

 

[Matthias]

Guess he is wrong hey?

I don’t know. I haven’t watched it.

I’m not here to watch videos. I’m here to have conversations.

I’ve responded to some things he’s written which I believe are wrong. I’ve also responded to some things he’s written which I believe are correct.

 

[Johann]

Guess he is wrong hey?

Joh 1:14 And the Dvar Hashem took on gufaniyut (corporeality) and made his sukkah, his Mishkan (Tabernacle) among us [YESHAYAH 7:14], and we [Shlichim, 1Y 1:1-2] gazed upon his Kavod [SHEMOT 33:18; 40:34; YESHAYAH 60:1-2], the Shechinah of the Ben Yachid from Elohim HaAv, full of Hashem's Chesed v’Emes.
OJB
J.

 

[Johann]

Joh 1:14 And the Dvar Hashem took on gufaniyut (corporeality) and made his sukkah, his Mishkan (Tabernacle) among us [YESHAYAH 7:14], and we [Shlichim, 1Y 1:1-2] gazed upon his Kavod [SHEMOT 33:18; 40:34; YESHAYAH 60:1-2], the Shechinah of the Ben Yachid from Elohim HaAv, full of Hashem's Chesed v’Emes.
OJB
J.

The rabbi is absolutely correct here @Matthias
J.

 

[Matthias]

The rabbi is absolutely correct here @Matthias
J.

The rabbi abandoned the faith of the fathers when he abandoned Jewish unitary monotheism in favor of trinitarian monotheism.

John 1:14 is the incarnation of the Father’s logos / davar / memra.

Shame on the rabbi for turning his back on the God of Israel, the Messiah’s God.

 

[Johann]

The rabbi abandoned the faith of the fathers when he abandoned Jewish unitary monotheism in favor of trinitarian monotheism.

John 1:14 is the incarnation of the Father’s logos / davar / memra.

Shame on the rabbi for turning his back on the God of Israel, the Messiah’s God.

If there is any shame, the shame is on you.
J.

 

[Matthias]

If there is any shame, the shame is on you.
J.

My God is the Father alone. The Messiah’s God is the Father alone. Israel’s God is the Father alone.

The Messiah will deal with the wayward rabbis of the world when the time comes.

My plea to them is to repent and return to the God of the fathers.

There is no God besides their God alone. Those who follow other deities will be put to shame.

 

[Ed McKee]

I was presenting my position to a general audience.



You’ve already established that. I don’t disagree with it.



I believe a conversation with you would benefit me, but follow your conscience.

Do you think a conversation with the trinitarians will benefit you? Do you think a conversation with the trinitarians will benefit them? Outside of our theologies, what makes them different from me in your mind?

Consider these rhetorical questions if you like. I would like an answer to them, but I don’t need an answer to them.



Thank you.

I have nothing against you or dislike you at all. In fact I appreciate your honesty. I just don't understand what or why you say things the way you do. Maybe you're just smarter than me. Don't know what it is but we seem to be interested in different aspects of our faith and you seem to value what people think. I've never put much weight in what people say/think unless they have scripture to back it up, although I have to admit, many times someone will give me a long list of scriptures to prove their point and I always find most of them have nothing to do with what we're talking about. For some reason I guess they do. Not saying that's you. I'm just a simple minded guy. :)

 

[Matthias]

I have nothing against you or dislike you at all. In fact I appreciate your honesty.

Thank you. The feeling is mutual.

I just don't understand what or why you say things the way you do.

I know. And you don’t think there is any benefit to you to gain an understanding of what and why I say the things that I do. That’s fine.

Maybe you're just smarter than me.

Maybe I am; maybe I’m not. That doesn’t matter to me. I can benefit from having conversations with people who are smarter than me, from people who are just as smart as I am, and from people who aren’t as smart as me.

Don't know what it is but we seem to be interested in different aspects of our faith …

I’m interested in all aspects of a person’s faith.

…and you seem to value what people think.

I value what people think because I value people. I want to know what people believe and why they believe it. I don’t know everything and I’m always open to reevaluating what I believe. Maybe I know something others don’t know and I can provide the same good service to them as the good service they provide to me.

I’ll either be strengthened in what I believe from those conversations or I’ll change what I believe. Either way, I’m in a better position and I’ll thank those who helped bring that about for me.

I've never put much weight in what people say/think unless they have scripture to back it up, although I have to admit, many times someone will give me a long list of scriptures to prove their point and I always find most of them have nothing to do with what we're talking about. For some reason I guess they do. Not saying that's you. I'm just a simple minded guy. :)

I very seldom start threads on Internet discussion forums. I read and respond (or don’t) to whatever scripture someone else has on their mind. It may involve, or require, introducing other passages of scripture into the discussion but often it doesn’t.

It’s my personal preference to meet people where they are. I’m interested in meeting you where you are, even if you have no interest in meeting me where I am.

I still see that as a win-win situation.

 

[Ed McKee]

I probably felt a little like you 40 or 50 years ago so I'm going to guess you are under 35 years old???

 

[Matthias]

I probably felt a little like you 40 or 50 years ago so I'm going to guess you are under 35 years old???

I still like Ike. You?

 

[Jack]

Just as Thomas said to Jesus, I say to Jesus "My Lord and my God"!

 

[Matthias]

Just as Thomas said to Jesus, I say to Jesus "My Lord and my God"!

So is your God one person, Jesus?

What, if anything, do you say to Jesus about his God?

 

[Ed McKee]

I still like Ike. You?

I doubt your father was born when Ike was elected. (: