Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate?

[Phoneman777]

Daniel 10:13, 21; Daniel 12:1; Jude 1:9; Revelation 12:7,

Hello @Phoneman777,

Making this claim that the Lord Jesus Christ is also the Archangel Michael is a presumption, and not Truth.

In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

It's a matter of history that it was once a Biblically sound doctrine that was once widely accepted until the JWs started corrupting it, and Christians ought to be more interested in investigation of prophesyings rather than manpleasing with bandwagon style outrage.

 

[Phoneman777]

Yes Paul was a master spiritual physician. He knew how to apply the right spiritual medication for the right spiritual disease!

Amen! I always say Paul and James did not fight one another, but that they were back to back fighting against Legalism and License.

 

[Phoneman777]

matt 16:18 18:18

Not sure how a text that testifies to the divinity and Sonship of Jesus erases the Ten Commandments or changes the Sabbath from the seventh day to the first.

The papacy takes credit for that, and to Sunday keeping "Protestants", the papacy says these "pay HOMAGE to the papacy, in spite of themselves". The Papacy absolutely calls out any "Protestant" who keeps Sunday as a child angry at his parent, a participant in a false rebellion, and a reverent subject to Papal authority...because though the Protestant claims "the Bible and the Bible alone", they proudly declare with absolute accuracy that there's no evidence for such a change in Scripture, and boast that they themselves are responsible for the change, which they are.

 

[Phoneman777]

'For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty;
only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh,
but by love serve one another.'
(Gal 5:13 )

Hello @Phoneman777,

The words you used are not that of Paul, he would not have spoken in such a fashion. He would have confirmed that they were not under the law but under grace, but that they were not to use their liberty as a license to sin, but were to serve one another.

The believer in the Lord Jesus Christ is saved unto good works, and not by them: he is saved to walk in newness of life before the Father in Christ Jesus; he is not saved to be placed under the bondage of the law.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

To say that "liberty" means we don't have to keep the Ten Commandments is a corruption of intent.

For instance, the abolition of the Mosaic Law meant a lot of extra money in their pockets with no more expensive pilgrimages to Jerusalem throughout the year, no more having to kill expensive livestock or pour out oil and other expensive items in sacrifice.

Were they to horde all that savings and shut up their bowels to the cry of the needy, or buy whores, or gamble it away? No, they were not to use "liberty" for occasion to the flesh.

It doesn't mean "you're now at liberty to break the Ten Commandments but don't break them" which is asinine, especially when Christians are constantly told to keep the Ten Commandments throughout the NT.

 

[Phoneman777]

@Phoneman777 Hebrews 1 specifically states that Jesus was "a little lower" than the Angel's in His humanity. Angels do not become human beings and vice versa. Show me in the bible where it says Angel's become humans. Guess you're gonna have to rip Hebrews 1 out of your bible.

What Bible are you reading? This is what Hebrews 1 says about Jesus:

1:3 Who (Jesus) being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

BTW, Jesus was not an angel - He merely MANIFESTED Himself as an angel, because God needs to "condescend to men of low estate" much like a smiling father will kneel down low to his small child.

Jesus was God in the highest sense of the world, Who took the name "Michael" when He manifested Himself as "the Angel of the Lord" and took the name "Jesus" when He manifested Himself permanently as a man.

Who was the "Angel" in the burning bush and recieved worship?
Who was the "Angel" that appeared to Joshua and received worship?
Who was the "Angel" that appeared to Manoah and recieved worship?

Since angels are forbidden from accepting worship (Revelation 19:10 KJV; Revelation 22:9 KJV) the Angel that did receive it was Christ aka Michael the Archangel.

 

[Phoneman777]

Phoneman, the reason why the Ten Commandments were the letter of the law was because it had to be kept with a sin nature that was in total opposition to the Law. Our sin kept us from keeping the spirit of the law, only the letter. Take for instance the Sabbath. You had to physically and purposely keep tabs of the sun and the first stars to know when the Sabbath started, and ended. That is the letter of the law. Question: Do you cook on the Sabbath and clean up, or eat pre-made sandwiches.

If we keep the Spirit of the Law, we will by default be keeping the Letter of the Law. Really, is it possible for a man to keep the Spirit of "thou shalt not commit adutlery" while at the same time having intercourse with his neighbor's wife?

But, if he is careful not to lust after women, he will automatically be keeping "thou shalt not commit adultery".

Paul's negativity toward the "Letter of the Law" could not have been because of the letters themselves, but towards the practice of attempting to gain salvation by it, which those who do so end up giving up in utter despair. Ask yourself, why would Paul tell us the law is a killer, then turn around and say it's "holy, just, good" and a revealing of what sin is, such as knowing what "lust" is because of "thou shalt not covet"?

 

[Phoneman777]

What "law" is Paul speaking of here:

Romans 7:7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

The Ten Commandments, which he's PRAISING, not abolishing!

So what is the conclusion of receiving the Spirit?

Romans 8:2
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. (2 Corinthians 3:7)

What law are we free from? Just the ceremonial laws, or the Ten Commandments, because the law of LOVE has been written on our hearts?

The "law of sin and death is only such to those who break it. The same law that forbids murder is "sin and death" to murderers on Death Row, but a law of Liberty to me because the only thing I murder is a plate of steamin hot fajitas.

 

[Phoneman777]

Keeping a physical day is the letter of the law. The Spirit of that law is trust in Jesus. He is our rest, not a day.

Hebrews 4:9 Peshitta says it's "the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath" because if we're resting in Jesus, we'll demonstrate that inward rest by outwardly resting on the Lord's day, the Sabbath (Isaiah 58:13 KJV).

That's what the Bible says, no matter if we agree or not, right or wrong?

 

[CharismaticLady]

The Two don't replace the Ten, the SUMMARIZE the Ten. If you love God, you'll keep the first four, and your neighbor, the last six. Those who refuse to keep the Fourth Commandment demonstrate they do not love Jesus, for Hebrews 4:9 says in the Peshitta that it's the DUTY of the Christian to keep the Sabbath as a sign to the world that we are resting inwardly in Jesus.

You do realize the "TWO NEW" already existed, right? Deuteronomy 6:5 KJV and Leviticus 19:18 KJV.

That is not what the Peshitta means. Only the translation of George Lamas is biased that it is the original Sabbath and not another one.

 

[CharismaticLady]

The Ten Commandments, which he's PRAISING, not abolishing!
The "law of sin and death is only such to those who break it. The same law that forbids murder is "sin and death" to murderers on Death Row, but a law of Liberty to me because the only thing I murder is a plate of steamin hot fajitas.

The Ten Commandments was the first covenant, not the new covenant. What is written on our hearts is to LOVE God with all our strength, mind and heart, and to LOVE our neighbor. The Ten Commandments was based on that eternal law, but fell short of it. You think that hate was always part of the Ten Commandments, and that Jesus was sent to magnifying them. But Galatians 3:19 shows they were only in effect UNTIL JESUS CAME. Why? Do you know?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Really, is it possible for a man to keep the Spirit of "thou shalt not commit adutlery" while at the same time having intercourse with his neighbor's wife?

Don't be absurd! How is that loving your neighbor? He would keep himself for his own wife that he loves.

 

[CharismaticLady]

The "law of sin and death is only such to those who break it. The same law that forbids murder is "sin and death" to murderers on Death Row, but a law of Liberty to me because the only thing I murder is a plate of steamin hot fajitas.

Huh? What do you believe is the Law of Liberty? Liberty from what?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hebrews 4:9 Peshitta says it's "the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath" because if we're resting in Jesus, we'll demonstrate that inward rest by outwardly resting on the Lord's day, the Sabbath (Isaiah 58:13 KJV).

That's what the Bible says, no matter if we agree or not, right or wrong?

I already answered this in #489

 

[robert derrick]

Well, if you can cheery pick verses from Ezekiel to completely miss the point that God was making in that chapter, then you must be right.

Well then, by your infallible rebuttal, I must have cheery picked and missed the point.

I don't know where, but obviously I must have.

Your rejection in the form of a non-answer is dishonest and childish capitulation.

 

[robert derrick]

Of course there's a distinction between the Mosaic Law and the Moral Law, the most glaring being the Mosaic was nailed to the Cross (which is why "circumcision is nothing") but the Ten Commandments "stand fast forever and ever" (which is why it will always be wrong to kill, steal, lie, etc.).

You declare without Scripture only the Mosaic law was nailed to the cross, while there is other moral law of God not nailed, and when confronted with Scripture stating all law of Moses is One law, you declare there is still a distinction, which is proven by the fact that only Mosaic law was nailed to the cross, and not the other moral stuff...

Right. You are no longer a serious person to be taken seriously.

And so, let's see: The law of Moses has both Mosaic law and Moral law that is not law of Moses? Or the law of Moses only is Mosaic, while the Moral law of God is not Mosaic, but is law of Moses? Or only Mosaic law is law of Moses, whole only Moral law of God is not law of Moses, and therefore Moral law of God is not Mosaic? Got it!

There is no Scripture for it, but we are assured that when the Scripture speaks of the law of Moses, only the things written therein are Mosaic and thus nailed to the cross. While elsewhere in Scripture there is indeed Moral law of God separate from that of Moses, and is not Mosaically nailed to the cross, but stands fast and forever apart from law of Moses, even as it is written in Scripture without Moses.

Right. And where that Scripture is? Well, it certainly isn't in the law of Moses, so don't look there.

And furthermore, if you would keep any point of law of Moses, you must keep the whole Mosaic law, which has nothing to do with the Moral law of God, that has nothing to do with the law of Moses.

And so, the Mosaic law has nothing to do with the eternally moral righteousness of God. Well, no wonder it was finally nailed to the cross. Thank God for that.

Now then, keep the Sabbath on Saturday, and you will remain eternally righteous with God. Unless of course you think of work on the Sabbath, then you have committed work on the Sabbath in your heart.

Purify your work-filled heart sinner!! Have your Sabbath in the heart, and not in the flesh only!! Afterall, we're not Jews under the law of Moses, but we are Christians under the law of the Sabbath!

 

[Curtis]

See, the reason I know you don't have a theological leg to stand on is because you've completely ignored all those proof texts which I've shown you -- such as Paul calling the law "holy" in one place and "carnal" in another place. If he was talking about the same law, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever...but if he was referring to TWO DIFFERENT LAWS -- the Ten Commandments WHICH HE WAS when he said "holy", but the Mosaic law of the priesthood when he said "carnal" -- then those references make perfect sense.

The law had a dual nature, that is correct - it was given to a carnal people called the nation of Israel, but has spiritual aspects because it was given to show them what sin is - and it still has a dual nature, because it still applies today - to the unconverted ungodly sinners - but does not apply to Christians who are no longer married to the law, and have died to the law but are now married to Jesus.

 

[robert derrick]

"Of course there's a distinction between the Mosaic Law and the Moral Law, the most glaring being the Mosaic was nailed to the Cross (which is why "circumcision is nothing") but the Ten Commandments "stand fast forever and ever" (which is why it will always be wrong to kill, steal, lie, etc.)."...and keep the Sabbath...

I am absolutely astounded that a Sabbathian Lawgiver would neglect the Sabbath as a Commandment for eternity!

"If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?" (John 7)

My my, it would appear Jesus is placing one of the most standfastest commandments ever under subjection to the law of Moses.

Is that why the Mosaic law only was nailed to the cross? To set the Sabbath free? So that Christian man could truly be born again for the Sabbath?

It still gets me that these people actually say there is a difference between Mosaic law and Moral law. I mean, Moses must have been one amoral lawgiver indeed!

The illusion of intellect is akin to those that make difference between the LORD Jehovah Savior and the Human Saviour Jesus, in order to declare Jehovah created Jesus.

Deja vu!

 

[Curtis]

The Two don't replace the Ten, the SUMMARIZE the Ten. If you love God, you'll keep the first four, and your neighbor, the last six. Those who refuse to keep the Fourth Commandment demonstrate they do not love Jesus, for Hebrews 4:9 says in the Peshitta that it's the DUTY of the Christian to keep the Sabbath as a sign to the world that we are resting inwardly in Jesus.

You do realize the "TWO NEW" already existed, right? Deuteronomy 6:5 KJV and Leviticus 19:18 KJV.

Yes they are in the Old Testament but are not called THE COVENANT as the Decalogue is, thus Gods real law, the law of love, is previewed there.

It would be redundant to have the two commands if they were just the ten restated- that is absolutely incorrect to claim they are equal.

The Decalogue is far inferior to the two love commands.

There’s not one drop of love for your neighbor in the Decalogue. The negative commands that have the death penalty for breaking, only put a limit on bad behavior- they don’t promote even one positive act towards a neighbor.

One can keep the Decalogue to a tee, and hate their neighbor as long as they don’t kill him, steal from him, etc, while completely ignoring him concerning everything else.

One can keep those ten commands that Paul said are the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation that you’re so eager to remain under, and ignore their hunger, ignore it when they break a leg and can’t mow their lawn, ignore every severe need they may have - and yet still be keeping the ten, and patting yourself on the back for obeying those commands,

Just because keeping the two love commands means you will keep 9 of the ten - there’s no day required to be observed in the two love commands- does not mean they are equal to each other.

Which neighbor would you rather have - neighbor A who gets mad at you and let’s slip that he hates you, and wants badly to steal all your goods, rape your wife, then kill both of you to keep from going to jail, but has not done it so far, because the ten commands say not to...

Or neighbor B, who you ask if he too is tempted to steal your stuff, rape your wife, and kill you and your wife to cover up the crime, says, why would I be tempted to do that? I don’t think about harming you or your wife - I love you - that’s why I’m always helping you when you need it.

I suppose that to you, there’s no difference between the reason neighbor A and neighbor B has done you no harm - so far.

Myself, I’d rather have neighbor B living next door.

 

[Josho]

So, those who work on weekends are sinning?

Oops I am guilty, I worked last Saturday.

 

[Taken]

Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate?
OP ^

Jesus is our (some people's proclaimed), Truth, Reward, Faithfulness....Agree.

So "we", can lie, steal, fornicate?

Well actually...
The Converted...and the Non-converted, can lie, steal, fornicate...between and among mankind.

The divisional factor is;
The Converted....CAN NOT lie, steal, fornicate...toward, Against the Lord God.

The Non-converted....CAN lie, steal fornicate...toward, with, Against the Lord God.

The Converted are in an Established Everlasting Relationship WITH the Lord God.

The Non-Converted are NOT in an Established Everlasting Relationship WITH the Lord God.

Whatever Converted or Non-Converted men do with and among other men...
(Viewed as Good or Bad) ...is a burden and consequence that individual shall bear. <--- that bears NO detrimential damnation on a mans established relationship with the Lord God.

It is NOT the hokey (and stupid) man-made accusation of "license to sin"...
It IS mans option to delve in worldly things, and FOREGO "rewards" for the Converted ... or Option to delve into Spiritual things, and store up "treasures" in Heaven and be gifted those treasures in the future.

Glory to God,
Taken