Jesus never said he was God Almighty

[JesusIsFaithful]

this cannot be true, else Jesus would not have hid from the Two Greeks who came to worship Him

Feel free to cite the scriptural reference involving that incident, but I do remember another incident where He acknowledged that He was the Christ, the Son of the living God, and told His disciples to tell no one.

Matthew 16:20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

He had explained why.

Matthew 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Paul explained it further.

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

I can imagine that He was seeking to save the lives of those two Greek from being stoned to death for worshiping Him as God, but you will have to cite the reference, because I do not recall it.

 

[bbyrd009]

Feel free to cite the scriptural reference involving that incident, but I do remember another incident where He acknowledged that He was the Christ, the Son of the living God, and told His disciples to tell no one.

Matthew 16:20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

He had explained why.

Matthew 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Paul explained it further.

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

I can imagine that He was seeking to save the lives of those two Greek from being stoned to death for worshiping Him as God, but you will have to cite the reference, because I do not recall it.

well google can find it for you, whenever you go look for it. I'm more interested in perceiving the repeated ignoring of Nehushtan right now, where the lesson culminates. Even if it is also significant that you do not even know this other v yet (which is not uncommon, don't get me wrong)

 

[bbyrd009]

49For I have not spoken on My own, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a command as to what I should say and what I should speak.
50I know that His command is eternal life. So the things that I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me."

anyone insisting or teaching that "Jesus is God" has evil ends, and is working on an agenda

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

49For I have not spoken on My own, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a command as to what I should say and what I should speak.
50I know that His command is eternal life. So the things that I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me."

anyone insisting or teaching that "Jesus is God" has evil ends, and is working on an agenda

Anyone teaching denying that Christ is God has an evil end, because Jesus had said that they will die in their sins unless they believe He is God.

John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

How can denying that Jesus is the Christ is the same thing as denying the Father unless Christ is God of the Triune God?

2 Corinthians 10:4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

 

[bbyrd009]

Anyone teaching

but you still are not addressing Nehushtan wadr

gotta run, have a nice day!

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

but you still are not addressing Nehushtan wadr

gotta run, have a nice day!

Explain why you believe it is applicable seeing how Nehushtan wadr is hardly comparable to Jesus Christ, God the Saviour.

Titus 2:13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; KJV

 

[bbyrd009]

Explain why you believe it is applicable seeing how Nehushtan wadr is hardly comparable to Jesus Christ, God the Saviour.

i agree there, yet Christ nonetheless likened Himself to the snake on a pole, right.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

i agree there, yet Christ nonetheless likened Himself to the snake on a pole, right.

I believe His reference was for the cause and effect as in looking to the pole, those O.T. saints bitten by a poisonous serpent will be saved and those looking to Him will be saved from their sins by believing in Him. That belief to look to that pole to be saved is applied to looking to Him in believing in Him to be saved.

 

[Windmillcharge]

I believe You are not listening to this Scripture.Jesus didn't say he was God.The word that's translated "one" means united, which is reasonable since in previous Scripture in this chapter has shown that the authority Jesus has was given to him by his Father who is God.All Jesus was saying was that he and his Father were united in a common purpose.Also those men who wanted to stone Jesus they were pharasees his enemies who constantly assumed things Jesus didn't say.

If that is true, why were the Jews going to stone him?
They understood that he was claimimg to be equal to God.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

If that is true, why were the Jews going to stone him?
They understood that he was claimimg to be equal to God.

If that is true, why were the Jews going to stone him?
They understood that he was claimimg to be equal to God.

yes I believe the Jews were Pharisees who were Jesus enemy, in fact, he called them disciples of Satan and because Jesus said that God was his Father, meaning Jesus was not saying he was the God of creation nor was he saying that he was equal to God, he simply said That God was his Father and because he said that they, meaning the Pharisees assumed wrong because of the way they believed or reasoned on the scriptures which were an error in belief and reasoning in the scripture. What I mean by that is that the Pharisees believed if anyone said that God was their father such a person would be claiming equality with God. That doesn't mean that what they believed was true it simply shows how the Pharisees were wrong in their belief and how they erred when reasoning on the scriptures like I said Jesus said that the Pharisees were disciples of Satan I believe we should not agree with how these people believed or reasoned on the scriptures.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

John 10:
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

As you can see not only did Jesus claim to be God but that those listening understood that he was claiming to be God.

Have you ever pondered Isaiah 9:6?
For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Jesus embodies the godhead.

Wonderful Counselor is the Holy Spirit.
Mighty God is Elohim, the whole plurality of the godhead.
Everlasting Father is the Father
Prince of Peace is Jesus our Savior that reconciled us to the Father.

The three are ONE. I am Trinitarian, but do not condemn Oneness. If you only have the Father, you don't. If you have the Son, you have the Father as well. 1 John 2:23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.

 

[Enoch111]

The three are ONE. I am Trinitarian, but do not condemn Oneness.

Being a Trinitarian (which most Christians are, including myself) AUTOMATICALLY condemns Oneness (and any and all heresies regarding the deity of Christ and the triune Godhead).

 

[GUANO]

Three beings. One spirit. This is not trinitarian doctrine though it's what most people claim it to be. Trinitarianism claims that they all have the same attributes such as omnipotence and omnipresense, which, scripture shows is not the case. Trinitarianism has more in common with the Chaldean, Assyrian, and Zoroastrian religions than it does with Judaism. Just my take.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Being a Trinitarian (which most Christians are, including myself) AUTOMATICALLY condemns Oneness (and any and all heresies regarding the deity of Christ and the triune Godhead).

Do not imply that I am a liar. I said what I meant, and I meant what I said.

The three - Trinity
are One - Oneness

Do Oneness believe in the deity of Christ - yes.
Do Trinitarians believe in the deity of Christ - yes.

Do Oneness deny Christ - no.
Do Trinitarians deny Christ - no.

A Oneness may have a problem with a Trinitarian because they just can't understand it, but a Trinitarian cannot say that the Oneness of God is heresy?

Don't strive to find fault with one another. Have compassion. And don't think that either group knows all the mystery which is God.

 

[Enoch111]

A Oneness may have a problem with a Trinitarian because they just can't understand it, but a Trinitarian cannot say that the Oneness of God is heresy?

In fact Trinitarians regard Oneness doctrine as heresy.

The Trinitarian view of God teaches that within the nature of the one true God there are three eternally distinct persons. Oneness theology denies the eternal distinctions among the three persons, insisting there is only one actual person in the Godhead

Oneness Pentecostalism: Heresy, Not Hairsplitting - Christian Research Institute

This is similar to Modalism (different modes of existence), where God the Father manifests Himself sometimes as God the Son, or sometimes as God the Holy Spirit. Since we know from the baptism of Christ that three distinct Persons were present, and since we know from the prayers of Christ that the Son cannot be the Father, neither the Father the Son, Oneness is heretical.
http://www.marketfaith.org/the-hidden-cult-of-oneness-pentecostalism/

And there was no need to take this personally and say "Do not imply that I am a liar." You are clearly mistaken, and that's all it is.

 

[Nancy]

John 10:
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

As you can see not only did Jesus claim to be God but that those listening understood that he was claiming to be God.

What about these verses? :
-in John 8:58 he referred to himself as “ego eimi” or “I AM,” the holy name God had used exclusively for himself when speaking to Moses. Jesus also speaks of himself as God in the coming judgment:
-I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end….The victorious shall inherit these things, and I will be God to him and he will be son to me (Revelation 21:6-7, J. B. Phillips).
-The man who has seen me has seen the Father” (John 14:9, J. B. Phillips).
-The Father, Son and Holy Spirit ARE distinct persons but one in nature.
-One day Jesus was debating some Pharisees at the Temple, when suddenly he told them he is “the light of the world.” It is almost bizarre to picture this scene, where a traveling carpenter from the lowlands of Galilee tells these PhD’s in religion that he is “the light of the world?” Believing Yahweh to be the light of the world, they replied indignantly:

“You are making false claims about yourself” (John 8:13 NLT).

Jesus then told them that, 2,000 years earlier, Abraham had foreseen him. Their response was incredulous:

“You aren’t even fifty years old. How can you say you have seen Abraham? ” (John 8:57 NLT)

Then Jesus shocked them even more with words no ordinary man would dare to say: “The truth is, before Abraham was, I AM.” (John 8:58 NLT)

-Isaiah had also referred to the Messiah as “Mighty God,” “Everlasting Father,” Prince of Peace” Isaiah 9:6, indicating that the Messiah would be both man and God.

Did Jesus Claim to be God? - Page 2 of 6 - Y-Jesus.com

 

[1stCenturyLady]

In fact Trinitarians regard Oneness doctrine as heresy.


Oneness Pentecostalism: Heresy, Not Hairsplitting - Christian Research Institute

This is similar to Modalism (different modes of existence), where God the Father manifests Himself sometimes as God the Son, or sometimes as God the Holy Spirit. Since we know from the baptism of Christ that three distinct Persons were present, and since we know from the prayers of Christ that the Son cannot be the Father, neither the Father the Son, Oneness is heretical.
http://www.marketfaith.org/the-hidden-cult-of-oneness-pentecostalism/

And there was no need to take this personally and say "Do not imply that I am a liar." You are clearly mistaken, and that's all it is.

Well, this Trinitarian is not so cold and arrogant to think I have the Trinity understood infallibly. I am a student of the Word of God and will read it with an open mind. I'm not surprised you would go to the Christian Research Institute as your "authority." Did you see all the names the Son is called in Isaiah 9:6? Or is the CRI your replacement for the Bible? Hank Hanegraaff is Preterist. Talk about heresy. But you go with him over the Bible if you want to. Your soul is your own.

 

[Enoch111]

I'm not surprised you would go to the Christian Research Institute as your "authority." Did you see all the names the Son is called in Isaiah 9:6? Or is the CRI your replacement for the Bible? Hank Hanegraaff is Preterist. Talk about heresy. But you go with him over the Bible if you want to. Your soul is your own.

Hank Hanegraaff -- in this particular case -- is correct, and so was the other source listed. These are not "authorities" and I do not subscribe to all their views. So you and I can ignore them.

The primary issue is that the Bible reveals THREE DIVINE PERSONS within the Godhead. Any doctrine which rejects that is heretical.

And speaking of Isaiah 9:6, I had already quoted it as proof of the fact that Jesus is the Mighty God (indeed the Lord God Almighty) some time back. BUT IT DID NOT MAKE ONE WHIT OF DIFFERENCE to the poster I was addressing, who denies the deity of Christ. And it will make no difference to any other person in this thread who rejects the deity of Christ. You can show them 100 Scriptures, but they will persist in their heresy.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Jesus is Emmanuel and that means God with us. that's us People he came to set free, he is dealing with man. he is our wellspring for all Man, so as to bear fruit.
The Jews did not know God the Father and some were of their father the Devil a mans works religion who stood over people and killed the Prophets of God.
If you do not understand who Jesus truly is, then you can not see God the Father at all.
No one comes to the Father but by Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit.
That's 3 thing one must understand and that all 3 are as one.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Hank Hanegraaff -- in this particular case -- is correct, and so was the other source listed. These are not "authorities" and I do not subscribe to all their views. So you and I can ignore them.

The primary issue is that the Bible reveals THREE DIVINE PERSONS within the Godhead. Any doctrine which rejects that is heretical.

And speaking of Isaiah 9:6, I had already quoted it as proof of the fact that Jesus is the Mighty God (indeed the Lord God Almighty) some time back. BUT IT DID NOT MAKE ONE WHIT OF DIFFERENCE to the poster I was addressing, who denies the deity of Christ. And it will make no difference to any other person in this thread who rejects the deity of Christ. You can show them 100 Scriptures, but they will persist in their heresy.

All I'm saying is I AM TRINITARIAN for the reasons you stated. But I will not judge the Oneness group who sees all three in the body of Jesus and love Him. You can if you want, but make sure you don't have any planks in your eyes. You are setting yourself up to be judged by God who loves those you judge, or did you think God hates them? HH probably would be so arrogant, but I hope you have more fear of the Lord than He has shown in his countless witch hunts.