the "TRUE" Church has never been wrong......
only those who promote men doctrine that do not line up with the WORD of God the TRUTH. as the QUESTION begs, "Which church are you in"....
PICJAG.
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only those who promote men doctrine that do not line up with the WORD of God the TRUTH. as the QUESTION begs, "Which church are you in"....
PICJAG.
Right. And trinitarian Christianity, has been wrong about God from the start, and you, Islam, and the reprobate Jews right in denying the trinity.the "TRUE" Church has never been wrong......
as the QUESTION begs, "Which church are you in"....
PICJAG.
God in Three Persons has been Biblical from the start...
I can't answer for others. just as I cannot stand before the Judgment seat of Christ for someone else. I can only answer for myself in Christ. the trinity is not of God, if so why is it always changing. if it was from God it would not change.
just in my lifetime I have witness three changes to the doctrine, or from those claiming to believe in the doctrine.
so no, I can only follow and recieve what the Lord Jesus taught me and a few others.
PICJAG.
This is a lie too. The doctrine remains unchanged. And you are not part of historic trinitarian Christianity. But part of a splinter group like JWs or Mormons, or any other cult of Christianity.
ok did not at the begining, the trinitarian state that God the Father name was jehovah, or in hebrew yahweh? yes or no.
PICJAG
well I guess we must wait on that name jehovah or yahweh which the trinitarian used to call God the Father.
well....
PICJAG.
well....
PICJAG.
Jesus told the disciples to baptize in the name (singular) of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And they baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ. How much more clear do you need it to be?
GINOLJC, to all. Yes the trinity doctrine has changed and added to itself.
the First Council of Nicaea was in 325. In 381, it was amended at the First Council of Constantinople, and the amended form is referred to as the Nicene or the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed.
Is the dogma of the Trinity fact or Fiction? Let us examine the evidence for ourselves, and see the changes and the LIES.
do to limitation of character, we will post this in three posts, with the focus on 1. the Father. 2. the Son, and 3. the Holy Spirit.
I. “THE FATHER”
The 4th century Nicene Creed (325). “We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible.”
The 4th century Nicene Creed of Constantinople (381). “We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible”.
Here both are about the same: and the bible agrees with “all things visible and invisible”, and that’s where it ends at Romans 1:19 & 20 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse”. HIS Godhead?, “his” indicate ONE PERSON. And the Creed have “ONLY” the Father “MAKING” all things, seen and unseen.
John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 proves this out as “ONE” person that MADE all things. But the creed leaves the Holy Spirit and the Son out of the “MAKING” of heaven and Earth. The creed say the Father “MADE” everything. Well if the Father is separate and distinct from the HS, and the Son, then this is LIE #1. for the Bile stated that the “Word” the “Son” Made all things according to John 1:3. and Isaiah 44:24 states that the one who “MADE” all things was alone, and by himself. So either the bible the word of God is lying .. God forbid, or the Creed, (by men), is lying. We are believing the word of God.
So the Creed statements here don’t line up with the Word of God. LIE #1.
PICJAG.
the First Council of Nicaea was in 325. In 381, it was amended at the First Council of Constantinople, and the amended form is referred to as the Nicene or the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed.
Is the dogma of the Trinity fact or Fiction? Let us examine the evidence for ourselves, and see the changes and the LIES.
do to limitation of character, we will post this in three posts, with the focus on 1. the Father. 2. the Son, and 3. the Holy Spirit.
I. “THE FATHER”
The 4th century Nicene Creed (325). “We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible.”
The 4th century Nicene Creed of Constantinople (381). “We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible”.
Here both are about the same: and the bible agrees with “all things visible and invisible”, and that’s where it ends at Romans 1:19 & 20 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse”. HIS Godhead?, “his” indicate ONE PERSON. And the Creed have “ONLY” the Father “MAKING” all things, seen and unseen.
John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 proves this out as “ONE” person that MADE all things. But the creed leaves the Holy Spirit and the Son out of the “MAKING” of heaven and Earth. The creed say the Father “MADE” everything. Well if the Father is separate and distinct from the HS, and the Son, then this is LIE #1. for the Bile stated that the “Word” the “Son” Made all things according to John 1:3. and Isaiah 44:24 states that the one who “MADE” all things was alone, and by himself. So either the bible the word of God is lying .. God forbid, or the Creed, (by men), is lying. We are believing the word of God.
So the Creed statements here don’t line up with the Word of God. LIE #1.
PICJAG.
Post #2. “THE SON”
II. The 4th century Nicene Creed (325). “And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God,] Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father”.
The 4th century Nicene Creed of Constantinople (381). “And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father”
The Nicene Creed (325), states God of God? This was the first trinitarian lie that was caught. Because if the Son is God of God, and separate and distinct, That’s two separate Gods. But did one notice the correction in the (381) statement? They dropped the “God from God” that was in the (325) creed. The God of God and separate and distinct created a problem, so it was dropped. Now think for a monument, why would you have to drop something that God suppose to have given you. Notice these are the so-called church fathers here.
Next LIE. It states the Son was “begotten” BEFORE all the worlds. If the Son was begotten before the worlds, #1. how can he be Co-equal? 2. if begotten before the world, please how, and what method was used in this begetting before the worlds? So how was the son begotten.
The third LIE, if the Son is ETERNAL, (which he is), how can a ETERNAL being be “begotten?”. because “Eternal means no beginning… STOP ….. do one see the lie now? Especially when they say before the worlds. Eternity has no beginning. Let’s continue on to the next Creed LIE.
III. “begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father”
Both say “begotten” …. before the worlds, which we know is untrue, but what about “MADE?”.
The Creed states, “NOT “Made”, let’s see what the bible say, John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth”. well that contradict John 1:14. let’s look at this LIE closely.
“eternally begotten”
When did this take place? They say Before creation, and reading their commentary as why before creation. since, as John notes, the world was made by the Word [the Son]. Such an "action" on the part of God takes place outside of his Creation, outside of time itself. It is not an "event" closed by time, but a way of being within God himself. That is why we say that the Son is "eternally begotten" of the Father”. THIS IS THEIR COMMENTARY.
If it’s outside of time then that’s an error because to be outside of time which is eternity, there is no beginning and no end, THERE IS ONLY A BEGINING AND A END “WITHIN” CREATION. So to say begotten outside of time is an ERROR. For time is a creation itself. As said, eternity, there is NO TIME. Another “LIE” of the creed.
Now let’s examine this “begotten” vs “Made”
MADE: G1096 γίνομαι ginomai (ǰiy'-no-mai) v.
1. to cause to be (“gen”-erate).
2. (reflexively) to become (come into being).
3. (of events) to happen.
{used with great latitude (literal, figurative, intensive, etc.):}
[a prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb]
KJV: arise, be assembled, be(-come, -fall, -have self), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, X soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought
BEGOTTEN: G3439 μονογενής monogenes (mo-no-ǰe-nees') adj.
only-born (i.e. sole).
[from G3441 and G1084]
KJV: only (begotten, child)
Root(s): G3441, G1084
Question, “What was GENERATED in Mary’s womb?” flesh, what was BORN of Mary? Flesh. Now, was there any flesh before the WORLD? Or TIME? No. So what was begotten and made was in time after the worlds was made. That’s according to John 1:14 the word of God. So who are you going to believe? The creed of men or God?. your choice.
PICJAG.
II. The 4th century Nicene Creed (325). “And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God,] Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father”.
The 4th century Nicene Creed of Constantinople (381). “And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father”
The Nicene Creed (325), states God of God? This was the first trinitarian lie that was caught. Because if the Son is God of God, and separate and distinct, That’s two separate Gods. But did one notice the correction in the (381) statement? They dropped the “God from God” that was in the (325) creed. The God of God and separate and distinct created a problem, so it was dropped. Now think for a monument, why would you have to drop something that God suppose to have given you. Notice these are the so-called church fathers here.
Next LIE. It states the Son was “begotten” BEFORE all the worlds. If the Son was begotten before the worlds, #1. how can he be Co-equal? 2. if begotten before the world, please how, and what method was used in this begetting before the worlds? So how was the son begotten.
The third LIE, if the Son is ETERNAL, (which he is), how can a ETERNAL being be “begotten?”. because “Eternal means no beginning… STOP ….. do one see the lie now? Especially when they say before the worlds. Eternity has no beginning. Let’s continue on to the next Creed LIE.
III. “begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father”
Both say “begotten” …. before the worlds, which we know is untrue, but what about “MADE?”.
The Creed states, “NOT “Made”, let’s see what the bible say, John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth”. well that contradict John 1:14. let’s look at this LIE closely.
“eternally begotten”
When did this take place? They say Before creation, and reading their commentary as why before creation. since, as John notes, the world was made by the Word [the Son]. Such an "action" on the part of God takes place outside of his Creation, outside of time itself. It is not an "event" closed by time, but a way of being within God himself. That is why we say that the Son is "eternally begotten" of the Father”. THIS IS THEIR COMMENTARY.
If it’s outside of time then that’s an error because to be outside of time which is eternity, there is no beginning and no end, THERE IS ONLY A BEGINING AND A END “WITHIN” CREATION. So to say begotten outside of time is an ERROR. For time is a creation itself. As said, eternity, there is NO TIME. Another “LIE” of the creed.
Now let’s examine this “begotten” vs “Made”
MADE: G1096 γίνομαι ginomai (ǰiy'-no-mai) v.
1. to cause to be (“gen”-erate).
2. (reflexively) to become (come into being).
3. (of events) to happen.
{used with great latitude (literal, figurative, intensive, etc.):}
[a prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb]
KJV: arise, be assembled, be(-come, -fall, -have self), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, X soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought
BEGOTTEN: G3439 μονογενής monogenes (mo-no-ǰe-nees') adj.
only-born (i.e. sole).
[from G3441 and G1084]
KJV: only (begotten, child)
Root(s): G3441, G1084
Question, “What was GENERATED in Mary’s womb?” flesh, what was BORN of Mary? Flesh. Now, was there any flesh before the WORLD? Or TIME? No. So what was begotten and made was in time after the worlds was made. That’s according to John 1:14 the word of God. So who are you going to believe? The creed of men or God?. your choice.
PICJAG.
Post #2. contuine.
IV. “the 4th century Nicene Creed (325). “By whom all things were made [both in heaven and on earth];”.
The 4th century Nicene Creed (381). “by whom all things were made;”
Both say the same thing. some may say well what about Ephesians 3:9 "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ”. see it said, “by” Jesus Christ. glade you gave that scripture, question,
“Who is the Christ? “
Jeremiah 10:12 "He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion”. God made this statement twice in Jeremiah alone to make sure we get this. Listen, Jeremiah 51:15 "He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heaven by his understanding”.
POWER and WISDOM? Listen, 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.” Christ is that POWER, whom many say is the Sporot = POWER, but Christ is also the “WISDOM” of God, meaning it is the SAME PERSON who made everything, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself”. alone and “by” himself? Well that just narrow it down… yes to only one PERSON. So the creed of men lied again, ”by” not understanding the scriptures.
These men who wrote this creed must not had consulted the scripture ….. fully.
V. the 4th century Nicene Creed (325). “Who for us men, and for our salvation, came down and was incarnate and was made man;”.
The 4th century Nicene Creed of Constantinople (381). “who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary, and was made man;”
Incarnate? What do incarnate means? Let’s see, (especially of a deity or spirit) embodied in flesh; in human form. So our question is “How did he get that body?. BEGOTTEN: G3439 μονογενής monogenes (mo-no-ǰe-nees') means “only” (BORN?, STOP, that just kicked in the butt the notion that he was begotten before the worlds), lol. My God, my God.
but is not the Christ the offspring? Let’s see. Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star”.
What do “offspring” mean? G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Root(s): G1096
KIN? Yes, like in KINsman Redeemer.
The ROOT word is G1096 MADE: see #III above. For the creed states, “begotten, not made”. you know what that means right, …. another “lie”. the offspring is the Incarnations of the Son. “diversity, diversity, diversity.
PICJAG.
IV. “the 4th century Nicene Creed (325). “By whom all things were made [both in heaven and on earth];”.
The 4th century Nicene Creed (381). “by whom all things were made;”
Both say the same thing. some may say well what about Ephesians 3:9 "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ”. see it said, “by” Jesus Christ. glade you gave that scripture, question,
“Who is the Christ? “
Jeremiah 10:12 "He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion”. God made this statement twice in Jeremiah alone to make sure we get this. Listen, Jeremiah 51:15 "He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heaven by his understanding”.
POWER and WISDOM? Listen, 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.” Christ is that POWER, whom many say is the Sporot = POWER, but Christ is also the “WISDOM” of God, meaning it is the SAME PERSON who made everything, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself”. alone and “by” himself? Well that just narrow it down… yes to only one PERSON. So the creed of men lied again, ”by” not understanding the scriptures.
These men who wrote this creed must not had consulted the scripture ….. fully.
V. the 4th century Nicene Creed (325). “Who for us men, and for our salvation, came down and was incarnate and was made man;”.
The 4th century Nicene Creed of Constantinople (381). “who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary, and was made man;”
Incarnate? What do incarnate means? Let’s see, (especially of a deity or spirit) embodied in flesh; in human form. So our question is “How did he get that body?. BEGOTTEN: G3439 μονογενής monogenes (mo-no-ǰe-nees') means “only” (BORN?, STOP, that just kicked in the butt the notion that he was begotten before the worlds), lol. My God, my God.
but is not the Christ the offspring? Let’s see. Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star”.
What do “offspring” mean? G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Root(s): G1096
KIN? Yes, like in KINsman Redeemer.
The ROOT word is G1096 MADE: see #III above. For the creed states, “begotten, not made”. you know what that means right, …. another “lie”. the offspring is the Incarnations of the Son. “diversity, diversity, diversity.
PICJAG.
Post #3. “THE HOLY SPIRIT”
VI. the 4th century Nicene Creed (325). “And in the Holy Ghost”.
The 4th century Nicene Creed of Constantinople (381). “And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spake by the prophets.”
Do one see the big change here?
(a). “We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life”.
Say what! The Holy Spirit is the Lord?, who is the son, The giver of LIFE?. now you know what we can do with that statement…… but the Holy Spirit is the “GIVER” of Life. And he’s the Lord, yes, the creed said “Lord”, read it again, the update the Nicene Creed of (381). as we been saying, the bible is correct, "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty”, 2 Corinthians 3:17. well at least they got one thing right. Yes, the “Lord” the Son is the Holy Spirit. But now this…… lol,
VI (b). “who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]”. the “Filioque”
Wait, hold it, the Holy Spirit proceeds from the son also? The Nicaeno-Constantinopolitan Creed, the (381) update, "state that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and son". the “Filioque” describes the Holy Spirit as proceeding from both the Father and the Son, (not from the Father only).
I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceedeth from the Father ⟨and the Son⟩.
Who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified.
or in Latin:
Et in Spiritum Sanctum, Dominum et vivificantem:
qui ex Patre ⟨Filioque⟩ procedit
Qui cum Patre, et Filio simul adoratur, et cum glorificatur.
The Word Proceed: begin or continue a course of action.
But did not the Son Proceed from the Father, …. God? John 8:42 "Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me” and this,
.John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me”. or this,
John 16:27 "For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
John 16:28 "I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father”. or this,
John 17:8 "For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
Do one see the LIE?. oh well….
VII. “who has spoken by/through the prophets”.
The Holy Spirit, according to the creed, spoke through the prophets?, lets see. 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow”. (testifying), testifying? Let’s put this in layman terms or translation for easy consumption.“spoken to”. BINGO, the Holy Spirit is the Lord Jesus the Christ in Flesh. Just as we been saying all the TIME.
The Lord Jesus the Holy Spirit prompt me to look at that creed again. It’s been years since I look at it. And I’m glad that I did.
Anytime one has to update some thing God to you, then it’s not of God.
The original Creed, First Council of Nicaea (325). updated at the First Council of Constantinople (381). other word your church father did as what we call a Nicaea creed 2.0 update. Meaning a “CHANGE”. well dave did you not say, out of your own mouth “God don’t Change”. well……..
This is exactingly what we been saying all alone. Men LIE, God don’t.
PICJAG.
VI. the 4th century Nicene Creed (325). “And in the Holy Ghost”.
The 4th century Nicene Creed of Constantinople (381). “And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spake by the prophets.”
Do one see the big change here?
(a). “We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life”.
Say what! The Holy Spirit is the Lord?, who is the son, The giver of LIFE?. now you know what we can do with that statement…… but the Holy Spirit is the “GIVER” of Life. And he’s the Lord, yes, the creed said “Lord”, read it again, the update the Nicene Creed of (381). as we been saying, the bible is correct, "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty”, 2 Corinthians 3:17. well at least they got one thing right. Yes, the “Lord” the Son is the Holy Spirit. But now this…… lol,
VI (b). “who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]”. the “Filioque”
Wait, hold it, the Holy Spirit proceeds from the son also? The Nicaeno-Constantinopolitan Creed, the (381) update, "state that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and son". the “Filioque” describes the Holy Spirit as proceeding from both the Father and the Son, (not from the Father only).
I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceedeth from the Father ⟨and the Son⟩.
Who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified.
or in Latin:
Et in Spiritum Sanctum, Dominum et vivificantem:
qui ex Patre ⟨Filioque⟩ procedit
Qui cum Patre, et Filio simul adoratur, et cum glorificatur.
The Word Proceed: begin or continue a course of action.
But did not the Son Proceed from the Father, …. God? John 8:42 "Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me” and this,
.John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me”. or this,
John 16:27 "For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
John 16:28 "I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father”. or this,
John 17:8 "For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
Do one see the LIE?. oh well….
VII. “who has spoken by/through the prophets”.
The Holy Spirit, according to the creed, spoke through the prophets?, lets see. 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow”. (testifying), testifying? Let’s put this in layman terms or translation for easy consumption.“spoken to”. BINGO, the Holy Spirit is the Lord Jesus the Christ in Flesh. Just as we been saying all the TIME.
The Lord Jesus the Holy Spirit prompt me to look at that creed again. It’s been years since I look at it. And I’m glad that I did.
Anytime one has to update some thing God to you, then it’s not of God.
The original Creed, First Council of Nicaea (325). updated at the First Council of Constantinople (381). other word your church father did as what we call a Nicaea creed 2.0 update. Meaning a “CHANGE”. well dave did you not say, out of your own mouth “God don’t Change”. well……..
This is exactingly what we been saying all alone. Men LIE, God don’t.
PICJAG.
You are quoting the creeds out of context. Also the doctrines in the creeds became more developed over time, but their truth never changes.
Scripture says people cannot see God. “But He answered, “You cannot see My face, for no one can see Me and live.”” (Exodus 33:20) (HCSB)
Again, Jesus says no man has seen the Father. “No one has ever seen God. The One and Only Son — the One who is at the Father’s side — He has revealed Him.” (John 1:18) (HCSB)
But; “The LORD spoke with Moses face to face, just as a man speaks with his friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his assistant, the young man Joshua son of Nun, would not leave the inside of the tent.” (Exodus 33:11) (HCSB)
So Moses must have been speaking to and seeing the preincarnate Son. Who is at the Father’s side and who reveals Him.
Matt Slick says; The solution is simple. All you need to do is accept what the Bible says. If the people of the OT were seeing God, the Almighty God, and Jesus said that no one has ever seen the Father (John 6:46), then they were seeing God Almighty but not the Father. It was someone else in the Godhead. I suggest that they were seeing the Word before He became incarnate. In other words, they were seeing Jesus - compare John 8:58 with Exodus 3:14 above.
The Plurality Study.
Again, Jesus says no man has seen the Father. “No one has ever seen God. The One and Only Son — the One who is at the Father’s side — He has revealed Him.” (John 1:18) (HCSB)
But; “The LORD spoke with Moses face to face, just as a man speaks with his friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his assistant, the young man Joshua son of Nun, would not leave the inside of the tent.” (Exodus 33:11) (HCSB)
So Moses must have been speaking to and seeing the preincarnate Son. Who is at the Father’s side and who reveals Him.
Matt Slick says; The solution is simple. All you need to do is accept what the Bible says. If the people of the OT were seeing God, the Almighty God, and Jesus said that no one has ever seen the Father (John 6:46), then they were seeing God Almighty but not the Father. It was someone else in the Godhead. I suggest that they were seeing the Word before He became incarnate. In other words, they were seeing Jesus - compare John 8:58 with Exodus 3:14 above.
The Plurality Study.
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First thanks for the reply. second a development is a "CHANGE". so, what you're saying is that they (the Church fathers) got is wrong the first time?. an improvement is what the scriptures require now?
a developement ........ over time? (did the apostles develope over time?). yes the understand is gain better over time but not the change in doctrine. and as for truth, the creed lied over and over as pointed out...
now, if there is something that U think is out of context please point it out. and we will address it.
PICJAG.
Your friend matt slick say that the name “YHWH” is the name of the Father, the name of the son, and the Name of the Holy Spirit. What is the name of God the Father? | CARM.org
he said, "The scriptures do not give us a personal name that belongs distinctly to God the Father. In fact, the only person in the Trinity who is given a distinct personal name is God the Son, whose name is Jesus".
You say the name of them all is Jesus. So how do you get Jesus out of YHWH?
PICJAG
The truth of trinity is throughout the NT. The creeds only took what was there and what the church believed and preserved it for future generations. Truth does not change. But the details become more clearly stated. It took nearly 10 years for the Westminster Assembly to detail what the early creeds said. But their truth did not change.First thanks for the reply. second a development is a "CHANGE". so, what you're saying is that they (the Church fathers) got is wrong the first time?. an improvement is what the scriptures require now?
a developement ........ over time? (did the apostles develope over time?). yes the understand is gain better over time but not the change in doctrine. and as for truth, the creed lied over and over as pointed out...
now, if there is something that U think is out of context please point it out. and we will address it.
PICJAG.
So, are you judging what I say by another person's views? He did a great study on God's plurality and I use it occasionally. But I don't agree completely with any group I can think of. But I think you have a denominational ball and chain and more crow than you can eat if you admit what I say is true.
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