Jesus will not lose anyone

[KingJ]

You can put on corruption if you like!

There are no guarantees in life. God is not a used car salesman with money back guarantees. He does not reward smugness. He calls us to fear and to run. Have you read this?

Php_2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

You take on people who openly confess they do not agree with OSAS, with that verse? You are clearly not thinking straight.

You are missing the other side of the coin. We walk in the law of grace not of works. Lets say your wife is a good mechanic. There is a difference between the local mechanic and your wife.

You are proposing we interact with God like the local mechanic instead of our wife....terrible discerning of the NT!

 

[Episkopos]

Saved to live again and chosen to rule and reign with Christ for the 1,000 yrs are two different things. No one knows who are the chosen with the exception of the 12 apostles in which I really do not say that the Lord chose Matthias and believe that Paul will be the 12th apostle. While they ask the Lord to let the lot fall on the TWO THEY had chosen to replace Judas it does not mean that his choice was Matthias for the lot had to fall at one of them for what goes up, must come down. But I personally do not believe it to say that Jesus chose Matthias or it would have said so.
Many believers say they love Jesus, but do you see all believers producing fruit worthy of ruling the earth? Please use some godly sense and recognize that this is just a tradition of man to think such a flawed understanding.

John 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
KJV
John 6:70
70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
KJV
Mark 13:20
20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
KJV
Matt 22:14
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
KJV
Acts 9:15
15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
KJV

You don't speak from an indoctrinated mindset! This is refreshing!

 

[KingJ]

Abide in Christ, without Him you can do nothing. And I'm not talking about indoctrination into a "happy place" through mass hypnosis.

You are dodging my question.

 

[Episkopos]

You are dodging my question.

Your question makes no sense at all. You are leaping into your own understanding and then expecting me to converse with an idea that remains unexplained. A person does not earn their way to heaven...they abide in Christ by faith and remain there by faithfulness. Period. A person who ACTUALLY does this is NOT indoctrinated but rather living from a divine life. So we go from life to LIFE. This cannot be bartered or sold.


When the foolish virgins would have liked to have some of this life they are told to get it from the One who gives it.

Indoctrinated people have a form of godliness and doctrine but NO LIFE. They walk in their own strength and understanding. The vessel is there but it is EMPTY.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I leave you to your rosy interpretation that skirts the obvious. You seem unable to see what is plainly written as is always evident when trying to converse with an indoctrinated person.

Yet I use reason and logic, and you blow me off without addressing those rational points by labeling me an indoctrinated person. I thought that behavior was a characteristic of indoctrinated persons..

 

[Episkopos]

Yet I use reason and logic, and you blow me off without addressing those rational points by labeling me an indoctrinated person. I thought that behavior was a characteristic of indoctrinated persons..

You know what loss means when you read about your finances but you are unable to discern what loss is when a far greater loss is spoken of in the bible. Only an indoctrinated person can understand the temporal loss but miss the greater eternal loss.

Apply THAT reasoning to your present understanding...if you have the capability that is...

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You know what loss means when you read about your finances but you are unable to discern what loss is when a far greater loss is spoken of in the bible. Only an indoctrinated person can understand the temporal loss but miss the greater eternal loss.


Apply THAT reasoning to your present understanding...if you have the capability that is...

Loss means loss. It doesn't mean loss of glory, though. It's an analog loss (%), not a digital one (either/or).

 

[Episkopos]

Loss means loss. It doesn't mean loss of glory, though. It's an analog loss (%), not a digital one (either/or).

What is that supposed to mean...loss means LOSS and if it is in the bible it REALLY means loss.....an eternal loss and shame. And yes the person is still saved....but just barely. Like a multiple amputee is barely surviving a war. SAME analogy different age.

No loss of glory??? Where do you come up with this illusion?

Jesus said that it was better to enter into life blind and maim than to see and experience the second death. Have you read that?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

What is that supposed to mean...loss means LOSS and if it is in the bible it REALLY means loss.....an eternal loss and shame. And yes the person is still saved....but just barely. Like a multiple amputee is barely surviving a war. SAME analogy different age.

No loss of glory??? Where do you come up with this illusion?

Jesus said that it was better to enter into life blind and maim than to see and experience the second death. Have you read that?

Yes, I have read it. What kind of GOD is it that would completely heal maim people on earth, but leave them maimed in eternity?

Your mind is very confused.

 

[Episkopos]

Yes, I have read it. What kind of GOD is it that would completely heal maim people on earth, but leave them maimed in eternity?

Your mind is very confused.

Rather, your mind cannot grasp the kingdom of God. Nor should it be able to.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Rather, your mind cannot grasp the kingdom of God. Nor should it be able to.

Who would want to serve your god or live in it's kingdom? Come unto me all ye that labor and I will give you rest MAIMED! ROTFLMAO!

 

[Episkopos]

Who would want to serve your god or live in it's kingdom? Come unto me all ye that labor and I will give you rest MAIMED! ROTFLMAO!

You would have God only accept perfect sacrifices from men? A merciful God allows the maimed to live. The Nazis used to dispose of their handicapped ones. Are you inspired by this? God shows mercy. Is this so surprising?

 

[KingJ]

Who would want to serve your god or live in it's kingdom? Come unto me all ye that labor and I will give you rest MAIMED! ROTFLMAO!

ROFLMAO

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You would have God only accept perfect sacrifices from men? A merciful God allows the maimed to live. The Nazis used to dispose of their handicapped ones. Are you inspired by this? God shows mercy. Is this so surprising?

A merciful GOD allows the ungodly to live and heals them and makes them whole. What kind of being with the power to make whole would make something he loved live eternally maimed. I wouldn't do that to a dog, or even an insect. Either you're not using your mind, or it is a very perverted one.

 

[KingJ]

I must read up on your other threads Episkopos, I am battling to pin you. What Christian denomination are you? You clearly don't believe in OSAS, but your view of the opposite speaks of a works based salvation and you don't yet get that or I could be completely misreading your posts...?? :blink:

 

[Axehead]

I want to point out a couple of things right from Jesus mouth regarding our salvation and security.

It is intended to give us confidence and encouragement as Christians .

I have underlined it below ......


35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”



taken from John 6:35-40

We don't just come to Him one time. It means "those who come to Me and keep coming to Me". That is what abiding means. To abide in Christ is to stay in Christ, to "put on the Lord Jesus Christ" each day and every moment of each day to remain in Him.

Come to Him and keep coming to Him.
Abide in Him and keep abiding in Him.
Believe in Him and keep believing in Him.

When you look at the whole counsel of God in the Scriptures and not just one part, this is what is being communicated to us.

This is speaking of complete dependence on Him each and everyday. Those who remain in Him have the utmost of security and nothing or no one will pluck them from His hand.

It is not some automatic thing that kicks in from one confession of faith and one prayer.

We have our part to uphold in this relationship with the Lord, everyday.

Axehead

 

[Episkopos]

A merciful GOD allows the ungodly to live and heals them and makes them whole. What kind of being with the power to make whole would make something he loved live eternally maimed. I wouldn't do that to a dog, or even an insect. Either you're not using your mind, or it is a very perverted one.

Learn wisdom and cease from your own understanding

Ecc_9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

I must read up on your other threads Episkopos, I am battling to pin you. What Christian denomination are you? You clearly don't believe in OSAS, but your view of the opposite speaks of a works based salvation and you don't yet get that or I could be completely misreading your posts...?? :blink:

I go by the word and the Spirit. The word is very clear but only in the Spirit. A rigid interpretation of the bible is very misleading. It takes a greater depth of understanding to get the more subtle teachings. We move on from repentance from dead works and baptism into new life. The bible describes things like layers in an onion. We must be clear on what layer we are on. So many always remain on the outer layer...so discussion about the deeper truths of the bible becomes impossible. there is no denomination that espouses the truth...only certain truths that they have chosen to organize around. Of course this is very wrong and carnal.

When discussing the truth that Jesus doesn't lose one of His own we must be careful to identify what He means. Do we assume that all church goers are His? Do we assume that since we have a heart beat surely Jesus means us?

The sayings of Jesus are like deep waters. Too deep for carnal babes to understand.

It is wise to keep that in mind and remain open to understand things more clearly. Defending a dogmatic position because it suits us is clearly the wrong approach. Something as great as the kingdom of God has great depth. Unfortunately those who comment on it usually do not.

The OP is as clear as mud...making assumptions

Jesus will not lose anyone of what?

 

[afaithfulone4u]

I want to point out a couple of things right from Jesus mouth regarding our salvation and security.

It is intended to give us confidence and encouragement as Christians .

I have underlined it below ......


35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”



taken from John 6:35-40

While the scripture is true, we must rightly divide it to see what the spiritual meaning is.
When we don't understand things we should not say such seducing things for it only gives people False hope and many are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Speak the truth, know the truth for the Truth is the only thing that sets us Free. Thy Word O LORD is truth.

Rev 3:15-16
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
KJV
Rev 3:11
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
KJV
Rev 3:3-6
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
KJV
Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
KJV

 

[Axehead]

We should not say such seducing things for it only gives people False hope and many are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Speak the truth, know the truth for the Truth is the only thing that sets us Free. Thy Word O LORD is truth.

Rev 3:15-16
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
KJV
Rev 3:11
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
KJV
Rev 3:3-6
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
KJV
Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
KJV

Very true. We cannot promote false security. There is no security in unbelief. There is no comfort in straying from the Lord or rebelling at His word to you, personally. There can be no confidence in ignoring the promptings of the Holy Spirit. How can one have confidence if they do not abide in Christ?

What confidence does a wife has in a husband's love for her, if he constantly ignores her. What he is communicating to her is that HE DOES NOT LOVE HER. And thus, how can she KNOW HIM or BE KNOWN OF HIM, without relation(ship)?

When Jesus says, "I NEVER KNEW YOU", He is talking about not having any relations with you, no fellowship, not knowing who you are from a standpoint of spiritual intimacy.

Axehead

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Learn wisdom and cease from your own understanding

Learn righteousness and cease from your sanctimonious posturing.