John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

[True Faith]

I am not removing the Son (you don't mind if I use "Son" rather than "Jesus" here, do you? "Jesus" is the human name given to Him upon becoming incarnate) from being God equally with the Father and Holy Spirit -- except insofar as he "emptied himself" in the manner noted by Paul's letter to the Philippians. The sense in which he was still God while here in the flesh is thus limited. There is no other reasonable way to construe Paul's words.

Look at it this way. Let's think of the continuum of eternity in linear fashion, and call time t(I) the moment of the Incarnation and time t(A) the moment of the Ascension. A moment before t(I) the Son and the Father, equally God since the beginning of time, were united in will that the Incarnation occur and that Jesus' earthly ministry begin. At that fraction of a millisecond before t(I), the triune God's will was in unison -- and in that moment the triune God, through the Son who is God with the Father and Holy Spirit, was about to come down from heaven to do God's own will. Between t(I) and t(A), the "emptied," incarnate God-become-man was capable of a will of his own separate from God's will. (For example, he could say "Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass me by; still, your will, not mine, be done.")

So when, as you aptly put it, "God Himself became Flesh... the Word dwelt among us, God Himself dwelt among us" at t(I), there were two possibly conflicting wills, the Father's and the incarnate, emptied Son's. Not before t(I). And not after t(A).

So God -- the triune God -- did come down in the flesh to do what you call "his own" will (I'll go along and use the singular "his" rather than "their" here, to note the triune God as a single God in three persons, in accordance with conventional Trinitarian notions).

So God lied when he said that he did not come down from heaven to do his own will... Understood...
Your words not mine...

 

[True Faith]

Off on a personal tangent.

not at all... what makes you say that???

 

[True Faith]

You do......implies a statement, ends with a period.
Do you......implies a question, ends with a question mark.

I am so sorry you want to go after grammatical mistakes.. let me fix that...

do you believe Jesus is God Himself?

 

[True Faith]

Charges, accusations.

the answer to the question I just asked will say whether or not I was incorrect ...

 

[True Faith]

Clearly I speak for myself.
Clearly you can agree or disagree with what I say.
Clearly you can quote me and ask me about what I have said.

Nothing clear about you making a statement and ending it with a question mark.

Still waiting on an answer

 

[RedFan]

Why ask me to show you something I did not say?



Why pretend I used Rev 1:1 to establish a lie?

You are making false accusations without a shred of evidence of me saying such things.

Don't feel picked on. @True Faith is treating me the same way.

 

[Taken]

Don't feel picked on. @True Faith is treating me the same way.

I know.

 

[True Faith]

Ofcourse Gods Word is God Himself...same as your word is you yourself.

Good loop... I can run with that...
Do you believe Jesus is God Himself???

 

[True Faith]

Don't feel picked on. @True Faith is treating me the same way.

Well if you started speaking the truth and actually knew your own doctrine, then you wouldn't get offended in the Truth...

 

[RedFan]

So God lied when he said that he did not come down from heaven to do his own will... Understood...
Your words not mine...

No, THE INCARNATE SON didn't lie when he said he did not come down from heaven to do his own will. That was the truth. His purpose was indeed to do the Father's will. And he fulfilled that purpose.

 

[True Faith]

No, THE INCARNATE SON didn't lie when he said he did not come down from heaven to do his own will. That was the truth. His purpose was indeed to do the Father's will. And he fulfilled that purpose.

That contradicts both your doctrine and your own words...

 

[True Faith]

No, THE INCARNATE SON didn't lie when he said he did not come down from heaven to do his own will. That was the truth. His purpose was indeed to do the Father's will. And he fulfilled that purpose.

Your words "So God -- the triune God -- did come down in the flesh to do what you call "his own" will (I'll go along and use the singular "his" rather than "their" here, to note the triune God as a single God in three persons, in accordance with conventional Trinitarian notions)."

Then you said the incarnation...

Have you read your own doctrine???
I posted it for you to read and you cannot separate God into 3 separate persons. All 3 persons are what make up the Triune God so all 3 of them would have the exact same will because they are all God Himself separately and in Unity...

 

[True Faith]

False accusation.

no it is actually not a false accusation... sorry but he did contradict himself...

 

[True Faith]

God Himself is the WHOLE of God.
Gods Word is God, Gods Spirit is God, Gods Will is God...
Gods ORDER and WAY was to introduce Himself bit by bit...

Gods Word, Spirit, Will, Hand, Life, Power, Glory, Mind, Feet, are all distinct parts of ONE Lord God Almighty.

Surely you understand the difference between YOUR Word and YOUR Feet. Do you? Or do you think YOUR WORD and YOUR FEET are mysteriously multiple men?

Good then.. I was correct in my statement to you when you claimed I wasn't... You cannot establish Jesus being God Himself using Revelation..

 

[True Faith]

Why ask me to show you something I did not say?



Why pretend I used Rev 1:1 to establish a lie?

You are making false accusations without a shred of evidence of me saying such things.

I never said that you used revelation 1:1 at all.... not sure where you got that from

 

[True Faith]

3 Persons is long historical Catholic Teaching.
Sorry but Catholics Teaching does not have a monopoly on the word Triune/Trinity.

Trinity is the Unity of Gods (God's singular not plural) Word, Will, Power that creates and makes all things.

Gods Feet, didn’t create or make anything.
Gods Head, didn’t create or make anything.

Small problem with your statement... Making Jesus God Himself... no matter how you spin it... SO God Himself lied when he said that he did not come down from heaven to do his own will.... let me correct your grammatical error for you..

you just contradicted yourself and did not even realize it....

If their will was in Unity then my question stands unanswered...

Whose will did God Himself come down to do, if not his own???

 

[True Faith]

False.



So? Object to that scenario, after quoting me “supposedly establishing Jesus being God Himself using Revelation”.....

You making your accusations is gaslighting.

A persons own quoted words speaks for themselves...why think yourself necessary or qualified to speak for an other?

no it is not gaslighting at all... either you utilize Revelation to establish that Jesus is God Himself or you do not... which is it???

 

[True Faith]

If that were MY statement, why is it not QUOTED by me?
Why is that statement, QUOTED BY YOU?

Try again.

Ignored the rest of your post, as you based your response on speaking FOR ME.

Typical you are not paying attention to the truth... you actually have not paid attention to my comments either...

 

[True Faith]

Are you completely oblivious to the purpose of the Quote feature?
You speak for YOURSELF.
I speak for MYSELF.

Your endless badgering expecting I am accountable for who you say for me...IS gaslighting.

That was incoherent

 

[True Faith]

False. Precisely YOUR words.

What is the name of God's word?

 

[True Faith]

et me fix that lie for you
"

And if you read scripture, the whole book is about God giving the revelation to John by way of Jesus... God telling Jesus , then Jesus telling then Angel who then told John... Revelation 1:1.. so, using Revelation to try and establish a lie will never work...

now show me where I said that you used revelation 1:1