John 6:66 - Why did many disciples stop following Jesus?

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Tong2020

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If a man falls in love with Jesus for many years, receives the Grace from God to be saved and God blesses him greatly but then years later he falls away from God, murders people, has orgies, becomes a devil worshiper, etc... and hates God with all his heart - then dies. Do you believe he will still be saved? Yes or no?
What kind of question is that? o_O

Tong
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historyb

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I never heard anyone here that said that the church is the Bible.?

Never said that. The Church is greater than the Bible as God has put in the Bible. The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth not any book
 
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Never said that. The Church is greater than the Bible as God has put in the Bible. The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth not any book
And you call the Episcopal Church God's Church, the Church that started in the late 1700s? Oh my goodness, what is this world coming to...
 

Tong2020

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It's a question for you and your once saved always saved theory. Do you believe he will still be saved? Yes or no?
That question is really for those who believes like you, not for me. For you believe that a true believer can be like one who "falls in love with Jesus for many years, receives the Grace from God to be saved and God blesses him greatly but then years later he falls away from God, murders people, has orgies, becomes a devil worshiper, etc... and hates God with all his heart. ". I don't. You apparently seem not to believe that He is able to keep you from stumbling, and present you faultless before the presence of His glory, because you see man as having a will, powerful enough, that he can get out of God's hand anytime he so desires and choose to, and that he has the power to get back to God anytime he so desires and choose to and have God save him. I really do not blame you for that, for that is what you have been taught. But, now that you have the infallible and unchanging scriptures of God, where the truth is written, you ought to examine what you have been taught, if it is in keeping with scriptures or not, and believe the truth. But of course, one could only see the truth in scriptures if God so enables him, by the power of the Holy Spirit, so that in reading, he is able to discern the things of the Spirit of God.

No one can refute truth in scriptures, even by such imaginary situations.

Tong
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Tong2020

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Never said that. The Church is greater than the Bible as God has put in the Bible. The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth not any book
It seems that you see the scriptures as merely a book which contains truths and forget that scriptures is the word of God, the truth.

Tong
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That question is really for those who believes like you, not for me. For you believe that a true believer can be like one who "falls in love with Jesus for many years, receives the Grace from God to be saved and God blesses him greatly but then years later he falls away from God, murders people, has orgies, becomes a devil worshiper, etc... and hates God with all his heart. ". I don't. You apparently seem not to believe that He is able to keep you from stumbling, and present you faultless before the presence of His glory, because you see man as having a will, powerful enough, that he can get out of God's hand anytime he so desires and choose to, and that he has the power to get back to God anytime he so desires and choose to and have God save him. I really do not blame you for that, for that is what you have been taught. But, now that you have the infallible and unchanging scriptures of God, where the truth is written, you ought to examine what you have been taught, if it is in keeping with scriptures or not, and believe the truth. But of course, one could only see the truth in scriptures if God so enables him, by the power of the Holy Spirit, so that in reading, he is able to discern the things of the Spirit of God.

No one can refute truth in scriptures, even by such imaginary situations.

Tong
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The devil is teaching you that you can do no wrong because God will not allow that. And when you sin, you don't see that you are sinning because you're blinded by the devil and his teachings. You better wake up and change!

God Bless
 
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historyb

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It seems that you see the scriptures as merely a book which contains truths and forget that scriptures is the word of God, the truth.

Tong
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Nope. I understand something you and many refuse to grasp. In your zeal to go by Scripture alone and to do things your own way as opposed to God's way, you must by necessity ignore some Scriptures or try to explain verses away. All this accumulates to for you and others to only value certain Scripture that says what you like demonstrated in the fact that I have given you a verse that you can't stand because it brings down your house of cards (The Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth 1 Timothy 3:15b). I value the Scriptures much higher than you and I don't come along with traditions of men and follow Scripture alone and make my pet ideas into doctrine.
 

Tong2020

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The devil is teaching you that you can do no wrong because God will not allow that. And when you sin, you don't see that you are sinning because you're blinded by the devil and his teachings. You better wake up and change!

God Bless
Whose voice are you listening to? Never said that you can do no wrong because God will not allow it sir. Please read my post again, and this time carefully. And stay in context.

Again, what you say "You better wake up and change!" isn't for me.

Tong
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Tong2020

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Nope. I understand something you and many refuse to grasp. In your zeal to go by Scripture alone and to do things your own way as opposed to God's way, you must by necessity ignore some Scriptures or try to explain verses away. All this accumulates to for you and others to only value certain Scripture that says what you like demonstrated in the fact that I have given you a verse that you can't stand because it brings down your house of cards (The Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth 1 Timothy 3:15b). I value the Scriptures much higher than you and I don't come along with traditions of men and follow Scripture alone and make my pet ideas into doctrine.
<<<I understand something you and many refuse to grasp.>>>
And that is?

<<<In your zeal to go by Scripture alone and to do things your own way as opposed to God's way, you must by necessity ignore some Scriptures or try to explain verses away.>>>
Not doing things my own way sir. The Bereans in Acts 17 searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether the things were so that Paul and Silas preach and teach. Such character was said to be noble. Only you seems to say otherwise. Don't you see, even when the apostles themselves were the ones teaching and preaching, going to the scriptures to find out whether the things taught and preached were so according to scriptures is the way to go. Even Paul said this:

Galatians 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

2 Timothy 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,


The only way the Christian can tell, if one preaches any other gospel than what the apostles preached to the people in their day, is to go to scriptures which was given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

<<<All this accumulates to for you and others to only value certain Scripture that says what you like demonstrated in the fact that I have given you a verse that you can't stand because it brings down your house of cards (The Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth 1 Timothy 3:15b).>>>
I value the entire scriptures sir and not as you accuse me of, and that even without basis. For, if I am not mistaken, this is only our first chain of conversation in this forum.

What you have given is indeed a verse in the Bible. But it does not in any way is as you say. As I pointed out regarding the church, the church did not come from Christ, but Jesus Christ is the builder of the church. The church, being the pillar and foundation of truth does not mean it replaces the scriptures as being the word of God and is the truth. As I also pointed out, not that the church teach, that they do not err in what they teach. As such, some teachings may be erroneous and so the change. But scriptures, the word of God, is ever unchanging and infallible. So, it is on every Christian to go to the scriptures to see whether what they are taught and what is preached to them is in keeping with scriptures and is the truth. Is it wrong to go to scriptures for that, and is it wrong to follow and let God's words in scriptures prevail over that of the words of some teachers in the church?

<<<I value the Scriptures much higher than you and I don't come along with traditions of men and follow Scripture alone and make my pet ideas into doctrine.>>>
.......

Tong
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Even if you deny it, they still can. They believe you all separated from the True Church but your fight is with them not me
History shows they split from the bishop of Rome and the Church because they did not agree with the Pope back then. They can pretend but in the end, God knows their hearts. Hopefully they are just ignorant.
 
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Whose voice are you listening to? Never said that you can do no wrong because God will not allow it sir. Please read my post again, and this time carefully. And stay in context.

Again, what you say "You better wake up and change!" isn't for me.

Tong
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Your words bro!

You apparently seem not to believe that He is able to keep you from stumbling, and present you faultless before the presence of His glory
 

historyb

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<<<I understand something you and many refuse to grasp.>>>
And that is?

<<<In your zeal to go by Scripture alone and to do things your own way as opposed to God's way, you must by necessity ignore some Scriptures or try to explain verses away.>>>
Not doing things my own way sir. The Bereans in Acts 17 searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether the things were so that Paul and Silas preach and teach. Such character was said to be noble. Only you seems to say otherwise. Don't you see, even when the apostles themselves were the ones teaching and preaching, going to the scriptures to find out whether the things taught and preached were so according to scriptures is the way to go. Even Paul said this:

Galatians 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

2 Timothy 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,


The only way the Christian can tell, if one preaches any other gospel than what the apostles preached to the people in their day, is to go to scriptures which was given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

<<<All this accumulates to for you and others to only value certain Scripture that says what you like demonstrated in the fact that I have given you a verse that you can't stand because it brings down your house of cards (The Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth 1 Timothy 3:15b).>>>
I value the entire scriptures sir and not as you accuse me of, and that even without basis. For, if I am not mistaken, this is only our first chain of conversation in this forum.

What you have given is indeed a verse in the Bible. But it does not in any way is as you say. As I pointed out regarding the church, the church did not come from Christ, but Jesus Christ is the builder of the church. The church, being the pillar and foundation of truth does not mean it replaces the scriptures as being the word of God and is the truth. As I also pointed out, not that the church teach, that they do not err in what they teach. As such, some teachings may be erroneous and so the change. But scriptures, the word of God, is ever unchanging and infallible. So, it is on every Christian to go to the scriptures to see whether what they are taught and what is preached to them is in keeping with scriptures and is the truth. Is it wrong to go to scriptures for that, and is it wrong to follow and let God's words in scriptures prevail over that of the words of some teachers in the church?

<<<I value the Scriptures much higher than you and I don't come along with traditions of men and follow Scripture alone and make my pet ideas into doctrine.>>>
.......

Tong
R1345

The Bareans tried to disprove St. Paul, not prove him. There i no where, absolutely no where that says to go by the Bible alone. The idea to go by the Bible alone is an anti Christ invention of man. Even St. Paul said to go by the written and oral, not just the written. Those who go by Scripture alone pervert Scripture an go to perdition to burn forever.

History shows they split from the bishop of Rome and the Church because they did not agree with the Pope back then. They can pretend but in the end, God knows their hearts. Hopefully they are just ignorant.

Not quite. History does not show that, bias history shows that and we all are biased in one way or another. Like I am very biased against evangelicals and Scripture alone people myself. What history does show that it very messy and no side was innocent in 1054. Like the filioque which the Western Church included without having a Council of the whole Church and other issues. The Eastern Church has the same doctrines from the Apostles no change and no rebellion (reformation) like the West did, the Western Church decided on development of doctrine which helped crate the great rebellion (reformation) and in those churches the development and split still continues.

I am not going to argue and further the thread off of the op and I don't want to fight with you because your not my enemy.
 
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Not quite. History does not show that, bias history shows that and we all are biased in one way or another.
Bias history?

I think it's about what you know and don't know, and God will judge you accordingly. Hopefully it's just ignorance and not your own will. God Bless
 

historyb

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Bias history?

I think it's about what you know and don't know, and God will judge you accordingly. Hopefully it's just ignorance and not your own will. God Bless

Of course it is, never said you were bad it is what it is. Most people really don't know the real history of something so they go with what they were told. We all do it, we don't want to admit that our side might have error too. I think if everybody would admit and talk about their bias there may not be so much fighting and more real conversation.