John 6 and the bread from heaven

[The Learner]

Mark 14:22-26

Easy-to-Read Version

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The Lord’s Supper​

22 While they were eating, Jesus took some bread and thanked God for it. He broke off some pieces, gave them to his followers and said, “Take and eat this bread. It is my body.”
23 Then he took a cup of wine, thanked God for it, and gave it to them. They all drank from the cup. 24 Then he said, “This wine is my blood, which will be poured out for many to begin the new agreement from God to his people. 25 I want you to know, I will not drink this wine again until that day when I drink it in God’s kingdom and the wine is new.”
26 They all sang a song and then went out to the Mount of Olives.

Luke 22:13-20

Easy-to-Read Version

​

13 So Peter and John left. Everything happened the way Jesus said. So they prepared the Passover meal.

The Lord’s Supper​

14 The time came for them to eat the Passover meal. Jesus and the apostles were together at the table. 15 Jesus said to them, “I wanted very much to eat this Passover meal with you before I die. 16 I will never eat another Passover meal until it is given its full meaning in God’s kingdom.”
17 Then Jesus took a cup of wine. He gave thanks to God for it and said, “Take this cup and give it to everyone here. 18 I will never drink wine again until God’s kingdom comes.”
19 Then he took some bread and thanked God for it. He broke off some pieces, gave them to the apostles and said, “This bread is my body that I am giving for you. Eat this to remember me.” 20 In the same way, after supper, Jesus took the cup of wine and said, “This wine represents the new agreement from God to his people. It will begin when my blood is poured out for you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

His GLORIFIED Body endures forever.

As first century Bishop appointed by Peter - and the lifelong student of the Apostle John, Ignatius of Antioch wrote on the way to his martyrdom in Rome:
Ignatius of Antioch

Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2-7:1 [A.D. 107]).

Jesus said work for the food which endures forever.

then he said if we eat that food. Unlike the mana, They would live forever.

Your history does not line up with the word of God. I will not listen to it because it rejects what Jesus said and made him a liar.

As I said, when history says 2 + 2 = 5 you must reject it

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That wouldn't be Tradition OR History. It's just a LIE.
Sacred Tradition doesn't lie . . .

Tell that to the jew. Who used history and tradition to crucify Christ.

The bible does Not lie..

Jesus said whoever came to him will never be cast out.

You say that is not true

I trust Jesus

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What Bread did Jesus give us?

Then he took the bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body, which will be given for you; do this in memory of me."

Alma Redemptoris Mater

Did he say whoever ate that bread would never hunger or thirst. Will never die. Will live forever. Will never be cast out. Has eternal life. And will be raised on the last day?

Of course not. Because the bread he spoke of in John six was the words that could give eternal life. To all who believe. Just like he said in John 1 - 5

You can eat the Eucharist every day until the day you die. You still would not have eaten, the flesh that endures forever..

 

[Ziggy]

Tell that to the jew. Who used history and tradition to crucify Christ.

The bible does Not lie..

Jesus said whoever came to him will never be cast out.

You say that is not true

I trust Jesus

Actually the Jew was commisioned by Rome. And he feared for the people because he believed Jesus was the Messiah and would challenge Caeasar for the Kingship. So from day one The High Priest Caiaphas planned to kill him.
But it was Rome he feared more than God.

You can not serve God and Mammon.

 

[Marymog]

If his body is the food which endures forever.
then once we eat it. We will never die. As he promised

The only reason we would need to keep eating it. Is because it does not endure forever.

He did not show us how to eat that food. get off that nonsense

I wish Scripture were that simple. JUST DO THIS ONE THING AND YOU WILL GO TO HEAVEN!!

It isn't that simple. Doing ONE thing, Eating/drinking Him in the form of bread/wine like he TOLD us to do, is not the ONE thing that will get to you heaven.

Just like by doing this ONE thing, it will not get you into heaven: 32 “Everyone therefore who acknowledges me before others, I also will acknowledge before my Father in heaven; 33 but whoever denies me before others, I also will deny before my Father in heaven.

The only reason we keep eating it is because He TOLD us to do it in remembrance of Him. He didn't say do it ONCE. Or once a month or once a year. The NT Christians did it daily.

Yes, He did show us how to eat that food when He held up a piece of bread and said This IS my body. Oddly enough right before he said the bread IS his body, take and eat, he said that HE is the bread of life and that we must eat him.........Such weird NONSENSE coming from that weird guy Jesus who isn't very clear in his teaching.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Actually the Jew was commisioned by Rome. And he feared for the people because he believed Jesus was the Messiah and would challenge Caeasar for the Kingship. So from day one The High Priest Caiaphas planned to kill him.
But it was Rome he feared more than God.

You can not serve God and Mammon.

When you look at their responses to Jesus, the always focused on Abraham, the traditions, and moses (history)

that was my point.

i don’t think they really feared rome, I think they had fear they would lose power and authority. Which they would have lost under Jesus, these people had it good, wealth, freedom, and power.

also remember, from John the Baptist on, they were being told all the good works they did were useless. How dare someone tell them they were sinners and needed to repent. They kept the law, and they were of the people chosen by God the one true nation. So to tell them they needed saved was an insult. And made the, angry,

we still see that today when a legalist will get mad when he is told his works are meaningless and will not save him, or he is just as guilty as Hitler.

 

[Ziggy]

I'm curious if you all wash each others feet everytime you eat his body and drink his blood?

Because I don't recall seeing this done every Sunday service I ever attended when I was a child or have ever seen on EWTN.
Am I missing something?
Can you show me weekly services where everyone is washing everyone's feet?
Not just the Pope and a "service of humilty" washing criminals feet.
That was definately a hard one to chew on.

Were Jesus' disciples prisoners, had they fallen in sin?
And right after dinner?

Yeah I'm mocking..

But still, show me where everyone everytime they eat Jesus' body and drink his blood, wash each other's feet.


Jhn 13:12
So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?
Jhn 13:13
Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
Jhn 13:14
If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
Jhn 13:15
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

Show me.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I wish Scripture were that simple. JUST DO THIS ONE THING AND YOU WILL GO TO HEAVEN!!

You don’t have to wish, You just need to take jesus at his word. Jesus is not going to say it unless it was true, and he is not going to lead people astray, like unfortunately, a lot of men do

In john 1, John 3, John 4, John 5, and John 6, Jesus used the same theme, Using a bunch of terms which really point to the one thing

Receive him, come to him, Hear him, Believe in him, Ask him, in order to do this we had to eat this food he came to give that gives life. The words of eternal life like Peter said, or the words jesus gives. The spirit gives life The words he speaks are spirit and they are life.

He is telling us not to just look, and taste what he is saying, But to gnaw and chew. Because the words he speaks are life. If you do not grasp what he is saying or ignore it because of unbelief. Well you will have eternal consequences. Religion is not going to help you. People will go to christ and tell of all their great works

And jesus will say depart for I never knew you.

why? Because they did not gnaw and chew on the word. They rejected the whole word in unbelief. I was listening to someone yesterday and they made a point, It hit home, a half truth is a lie. Because it cancels out the truth.

Jesus said come to me and I will never let you go. Thats not a suggestion. Thats a promise. Thats true salvation

He made all the promises he did in the first 6 chapters of John (and he continued in his epistles) to those who believed and recieved and came to him

They WILL never die, Never hunger or thirst, Never be lost, Live forever. And pass from judgment to life.

He did not say they MAY never have these things, He did not say they will have these things ONLY AS LONG AS THEY DO SOMETHING,

He said they have them, You either believe him or you do not. If your at the point you do not believe him, you are no better than the ones who walked away, because they did not believe him (jesus words not mine)

You keep saying everyone believed he spoke literally of his flesh and blood. But Jesus did not. He said they did not SEE (what he was saying) because they did not BELIEVE

They could not see the truth of what Jesus was saying, because they did not believe.

It isn't that simple. Doing ONE thing, Eating/drinking Him in the form of bread/wine like he TOLD us to do, is not the ONE thing that will get to you heaven.

He never told us to do this in John 6

Your right, eating and drinking in bread wine will not get you any of those things.

In John 1 - 6, He said do this (eat and drink) and you WILL never die, because this food endures forever

In the last supper. He said do this OFTEN in remembrance of me..He never said if they did it they would recieve any promise. Thats was made up by A group of people who twisted a lot of Gods word.

Just like by doing this ONE thing, it will not get you into heaven: 32 “Everyone therefore who acknowledges me before others, I also will acknowledge before my Father in heaven; 33 but whoever denies me before others, I also will deny before my Father in heaven.

The only reason we keep eating it is because He TOLD us to do it in remembrance of Him. He didn't say do it ONCE. Or once a month or once a year. The NT Christians did it daily.

Yes, He did show us how to eat that food when He held up a piece of bread and said This IS my body. Oddly enough right before he said the bread IS his body, take and eat, he said that HE is the bread of life and that we must eat him.........Such weird NONSENSE coming from that weird guy Jesus who isn't very clear in his teaching.

I keep taking communion also

I do it not to be given life, to never hunger and thirst, to come to christ, to recieve anything.

I do it in remembrance of him

The true bread from heaven saved me over 40 years ago.

When I take the lords supper. it reminds me of that time.. so I never forget where I came from as a child of God.

 

[Marymog]

The last supper does not explain anything Jesus said in John 1, John 3 John 4 John 5 or John 6

You can say it does 1000 times, it will not make it true

Lol....Hold on EG!! HOLD ON!!

I feel like you are messing with me now....

The Last Supper does not explain ANYTHING Jesus said in John 6???????????

Last Supper: Holding up bread He said, this (bread) IS my body...take and eat....do this in remembrance of me!

John 6: I am bread. You must eat me. Lord, give us this bread always!

Keeping it real with hermeneutics.....

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm curious if you all wash each others feet everytime you eat his body and drink his blood?

Because I don't recall seeing this done every Sunday service I ever attended when I was a child or have ever seen on EWTN.
Am I missing something?
Can you show me weekly services where everyone is washing everyone's feet?
Not just the Pope and a "service of humilty" washing criminals feet.
That was definately a hard one to chew on.

Were Jesus' disciples prisoners, had they fallen in sin?
And right after dinner?

Yeah I'm mocking..

But still, show me where everyone everytime they eat Jesus' body and drink his blood, wash each other's feet.


Jhn 13:12
So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?
Jhn 13:13
Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
Jhn 13:14
If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
Jhn 13:15
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

Show me.

I like what he said when peter said no.

You are ALL CLEAN by the word I have spoken (except one) but you need to wash your feet from time to time

We go into the world. And there is alot of Dung in the world we need to wash off, Not to mention our own sin,,


Also. It does not say we wash ourselves. He said our companions wash and and we wash our companions.. Thats what we call discipleship

 

[Marymog]

You don’t have to wish, You just need to take jesus at his word. Jesus is not going to say it unless it was true, and he is not going to lead people astray, like unfortunately, a lot of men do

In john 1, John 3, John 4, John 5, and John 6, Jesus used the same theme, Using a bunch of terms which really point to the one thing

Receive him, come to him, Hear him, Believe in him, Ask him, in order to do this we had to eat this food he came to give that gives life. The words of eternal life like Peter said, or the words jesus gives. The spirit gives life The words he speaks are spirit and they are life.

He is telling us not to just look, and taste what he is saying, But to gnaw and chew. Because the words he speaks are life. If you do not grasp what he is saying or ignore it because of unbelief. Well you will have eternal consequences. Religion is not going to help you. People will go to christ and tell of all their great works

And jesus will say depart for I never knew you.

why? Because they did not gnaw and chew on the word. They rejected the whole word in unbelief. I was listening to someone yesterday and they made a point, It hit home, a half truth is a lie. Because it cancels out the truth.

Jesus said come to me and I will never let you go. Thats not a suggestion. Thats a promise. Thats true salvation

He made all the promises he did in the first 6 chapters of John (and he continued in his epistles) to those who believed and recieved and came to him

They WILL never die, Never hunger or thirst, Never be lost, Live forever. And pass from judgment to life.

He did not say they MAY never have these things, He did not say they will have these things ONLY AS LONG AS THEY DO SOMETHING,

He said they have them, You either believe him or you do not. If your at the point you do not believe him, you are no better than the ones who walked away, because they did not believe him (jesus words not mine)

You keep saying everyone believed he spoke literally of his flesh and blood. But Jesus did not. He said they did not SEE (what he was saying) because they did not BELIEVE

They could not see the truth of what Jesus was saying, because they did not believe.

Good morning EG. How are you feeling?

I wish it was that easy and Scripture just had that one line it; Believe in Jesus and you will be saved.

But Scripture says A LOT more than that. It says confess with your mouth and get baptized and repentance and baptism and works etc etc save us.

But I don't want to go down that rabbit hole...so i digress

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Lol....Hold on EG!! HOLD ON!!

I feel like you are messing with me now....

The Last Supper does not explain ANYTHING Jesus said in John 6???????????

Last Supper: Holding up bread He said, this (bread) IS my body...take and eat....do this in remembrance of me!

John 6: I am bread. You must eat me. Lord, give us this bread always!

Keeping it real with hermeneutics.....

See what I mean

Jesus spent verses 22 to 70 speaking of this food which endures forever. Which he would give them, the bread from heaven.

he spent 48 verses talking about this, And in reality, he used the whole chapter as he used the feeding of 5000 and a prelude to what he would say (do not work for food which perishes, (a nod to his miracle the day before)

He spent 5 previous chapters explaining what his mission was and what we needed to do to be born again, and recieve eternal life

2 verses in John 1, But as many as have RECIEVED HIM

21 verses in john 3 about being born again (look to the cross. Believe (have faith) He who believes is not condemned, he who does not is already condemned

John the baptist even spoke one verse in John 3. He who believed has eternal life He who does not shall not see life but the wrath of God

In john 4 Jesus spends 42 verses speaking about this living water, which God will give, that if one drinks it they will never thirst again. And and so many of these same titans believed. Because they drank that water

In john 5, Jesus spent 1 verse telling them whoever hears his words and believes has everlasting life and will not come to judgment

all in total. Jesus and John the Baptist spend 115 verses speaking on what gives us eternal life. And what we must do to become a child of God.

And you want to focus on 5 small verses. Take them out of context. And say every one of these 115 verses all come down to those little 5.

I can;t buy it. No history, no tradition, no anything will convince me that Jesus spend 6 chapters and it all focuses on 5 small verses in chapter 6 (I could go further, he does not stop in chapter 6.. he continues this same concept through out his whole ministry)

Your church wants you to focus on this small conversation and ignore the rest of everythign Jesus said..

Thats what the world wants you to do. Focus on something so hard that you can not see the rest.. in order to hide the truth from you.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

For this I will try to color code each digit so it is easier to see

two plus two equals X

John 6: 26 - 27 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

Food + (nothing yet) = eternal life


vs 32 - 33 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
- Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.” And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

Bread (he who comes from heaven) + He who comes to me and he who believes in me = You will never hunger and you will never thirst

36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

Me (christ) + comes to me = never be cast out

40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Me (christ) + sees and believes = everlasting life and the promise he WILL raise them the last day


47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

Bread of life + Believes in him, he who eats this living bread (his flesh) = will live forever


vs 53 - 58 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed,and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

Flesh and blood + eat and drink (literally gnaw and chew) = will live forever, promised to be raised on the last day, will live because of him (as long as Spirit (words of Christ) lives they will live


vs 61 -63 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

Spirit (words of Christ) + It is assumed believe or see and believe here) = Gives life,


vs 67 - 71 - Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?” But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

the words of eternal life the Christ, the son of the living God + believing = eternal life

To be honest I didn’t read all of it. But considering the bread … to me in discussing the bread and what one says is the bread…I fear discussing whether they are right or wrong. Because we may have our own same confusion over other things, like what is the tithe. See, one may have a strong pet peeve about what is the bread In strongly imposing “come on, you know what the bread is” but then they turn around and say tithing is about money. What is peculiar about the word is how it speaks of how we blame others and then we are caught doing the same. As strongly as people learning of bread, hold up a hand to say “leave me alone. I don’t want your input I know what the bread is” the one trying to correct about the bread …then turns around and has something similar like dropping money in a passing plate where they …if ever questioned about any of their beliefs, they also hold up a hand saying “leave me alone. I don’t want your input. I know what the tithe is. It’s money.” Tithing is only one example, there’s a tons more but the point is how we judge one thing and then turn around and catch ourselves in another.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Good morning EG. How are you feeling?

A lot better today thank you

I wish it was that easy and Scripture just had that one line it; Believe in Jesus and you will be saved.

Hey Mary, I just showed you basically115 verses where he said that very thing

But Scripture says A LOT more than that. It says confess with your mouth and get baptized and repentance and baptism and works etc etc save us.

But I don't want to go down that rabbit hole...so i digress

Well you could. But scripture does not say we have to get baptised to be saved, We confess with our mouth after we believe in our hearts. (Who does not do that?) repentance is just a change of mind, As an example. A protestant who changes his mind and converts to catholicism has repented. And changed his view. In the same token, a life long catholic who has changed their mind and left the church has repented.

We have faith in God because we have repented of our worldly view.. If we do nto do this, we will never believe (have faith)

We are saved by GRACE period.. through the work of CHrist on the cross. The lamb of God who takes away the penalty of sin for the world (which is what the animal sacrifices in the OT law showed they did)

But it is only through faith. Not of works, lest anyone should boast

Again, the 6 chapters show this

But as many as have recieved him, to THEM he gave the right

What makes us recieve him? Faith

Ask, and he will give us living water. What does it take to ask? Faith

Come to me and I will never let you go. What does it take for us to come? Faith.

That why paul said we HAVE BEEN SAVED (a completed action) By grace (Gods unmerited favor) THROUGH FAITH..

It is not faith that saves us It is Gods grace. But God will not just give it to us, he wants us to ask for it..

But he makes it clear. Not of works.. lest anyone should boast.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

To be honest I didn’t read all of it. But considering the bread … to me in discussing the bread and what one says is the bread…I fear discussing whether they are right or wrong. Because we may have our own same confusion over other things, like what is the tithe. See, one may have a strong pet peeve about what is the bread In strongly imposing “come on, you know what the bread is” but then they turn around and say tithing is about money. What is peculiar about the word is how it speaks of how we blame others and then we are caught doing the same. As strongly as people learning of bread, hold up a hand to say “leave me alone. I don’t want your input I know what the bread is” the one trying to correct about the bread …then turns around and has something similar like dropping money in a passing plate where they …if ever questioned about any of their beliefs, they also hold up a hand saying “leave me alone. I don’t want your input. I know what the tithe is. It’s money.” Tithing is only one example, there’s a tons more but the point is how we judge one thing and then turn around and catch ourselves in another.

See now. I think knowing what the bread is is the most important thing a person can do.

If you get it right, and eat it. You will never die. And spend eternity with God

If you get it wrong. And eat something else. You will remain dead. And suffer the second death. Because you have not believe in the one thing that can save you

Compairing bread from heaven to tithing I guess is ok. But if we get what tithing is wrong, It will not affect our eternal destiny..

 

[Ziggy]

When you look at their responses to Jesus, the always focused on Abraham, the traditions, and moses (history)

that was my point.

i don’t think they really feared rome, I think they had fear they would lose power and authority. Which they would have lost under Jesus, these people had it good, wealth, freedom, and power.

also remember, from John the Baptist on, they were being told all the good works they did were useless. How dare someone tell them they were sinners and needed to repent. They kept the law, and they were of the people chosen by God the one true nation. So to tell them they needed saved was an insult. And made the, angry,

we still see that today when a legalist will get mad when he is told his works are meaningless and will not save him, or he is just as guilty as Hitler.

Not to divert the discussion...
Lot of History what was going on in those days.

Caiaphas​

Caiaphas (Greek Καϊάφας) was the Roman-appointed Jewish high priest between 18 and 37 C.E., best known for his role in the trial of Jesus. His full name was Yosef Bar Kayafa (Hebrew יוסף בַּר קַיָּפָא), which translates as Joseph, son of Caiaphas.
A member of the party of the Sadducees, Caiaphas was the son-in-law of Annas, a previous high priest who had also succeeded in placing several of his own sons in the office. Caiaphas, however, held the position much longer than his immediate predecessors, probably due to his skill in pleasing his Roman overlords while maintaining a degree of order among the various religious factions in Jerusalem.
The Gospels of Matthew and John (though not those of Mark and Luke) mention Caiaphas in connection with the trial of Jesus. According to these accounts, Jesus was arrested by Temple guards and taken by night either to the home of Annas (according to the Gospel of John) or directly to Caiaphas (in the Gospel of Matthew), where he was questioned and accused of blasphemy. Caiaphas declared him guilty and worthy of death for this crime. From the home of Caiphas, Jesus was taken to the Roman governor Pontius Pilate, where he was convicted of the charge of sedition against Rome, the crime under which he was sentenced to crucifixion.

Caiaphas also figures in the trial of the apostles Peter and John before the Sanhedrin, where he was overruled after the Pharisaic leader Gamaliel opposed his plan to punish the apostles. He retained his position as high priest until shortly after Pontius Pilate was recalled to Rome.

Caiaphas - New World Encyclopedia

www.newworldencyclopedia.org

Lot's of Politics happening...
Just like today, just sayin
Hugs

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not to divert the discussion...
Lot of History what was going on in those days.

Caiaphas​

Caiaphas (Greek Καϊάφας) was the Roman-appointed Jewish high priest between 18 and 37 C.E., best known for his role in the trial of Jesus. His full name was Yosef Bar Kayafa (Hebrew יוסף בַּר קַיָּפָא), which translates as Joseph, son of Caiaphas.
A member of the party of the Sadducees, Caiaphas was the son-in-law of Annas, a previous high priest who had also succeeded in placing several of his own sons in the office. Caiaphas, however, held the position much longer than his immediate predecessors, probably due to his skill in pleasing his Roman overlords while maintaining a degree of order among the various religious factions in Jerusalem.
The Gospels of Matthew and John (though not those of Mark and Luke) mention Caiaphas in connection with the trial of Jesus. According to these accounts, Jesus was arrested by Temple guards and taken by night either to the home of Annas (according to the Gospel of John) or directly to Caiaphas (in the Gospel of Matthew), where he was questioned and accused of blasphemy. Caiaphas declared him guilty and worthy of death for this crime. From the home of Caiphas, Jesus was taken to the Roman governor Pontius Pilate, where he was convicted of the charge of sedition against Rome, the crime under which he was sentenced to crucifixion.

Caiaphas also figures in the trial of the apostles Peter and John before the Sanhedrin, where he was overruled after the Pharisaic leader Gamaliel opposed his plan to punish the apostles. He retained his position as high priest until shortly after Pontius Pilate was recalled to Rome.

Caiaphas - New World Encyclopedia

www.newworldencyclopedia.org

Lot's of Politics happening...
Just like today, just sayin
Hugs

Oh I agree..

It’s all the world.

 

[Marymog]

You don’t have to wish, You just need to take jesus at his word. Jesus is not going to say it unless it was true, and he is not going to lead people astray, like unfortunately, a lot of men do

In john 1, John 3, John 4, John 5, and John 6, Jesus used the same theme, Using a bunch of terms which really point to the one thing

Receive him, come to him, Hear him, Believe in him, Ask him, in order to do this we had to eat this food he came to give that gives life. The words of eternal life like Peter said, or the words jesus gives. The spirit gives life The words he speaks are spirit and they are life.

He is telling us not to just look, and taste what he is saying, But to gnaw and chew. Because the words he speaks are life. If you do not grasp what he is saying or ignore it because of unbelief. Well you will have eternal consequences. Religion is not going to help you. People will go to christ and tell of all their great works

And jesus will say depart for I never knew you.

why? Because they did not gnaw and chew on the word. They rejected the whole word in unbelief. I was listening to someone yesterday and they made a point, It hit home, a half truth is a lie. Because it cancels out the truth.

Jesus said come to me and I will never let you go. Thats not a suggestion. Thats a promise. Thats true salvation

He made all the promises he did in the first 6 chapters of John (and he continued in his epistles) to those who believed and recieved and came to him

They WILL never die, Never hunger or thirst, Never be lost, Live forever. And pass from judgment to life.

He did not say they MAY never have these things, He did not say they will have these things ONLY AS LONG AS THEY DO SOMETHING,

He said they have them, You either believe him or you do not. If your at the point you do not believe him, you are no better than the ones who walked away, because they did not believe him (jesus words not mine)

You keep saying everyone believed he spoke literally of his flesh and blood. But Jesus did not. He said they did not SEE (what he was saying) because they did not BELIEVE

They could not see the truth of what Jesus was saying, because they did not believe.



He never told us to do this in John 6

Your right, eating and drinking in bread wine will not get you any of those things.

In John 1 - 6, He said do this (eat and drink) and you WILL never die, because this food endures forever

In the last supper. He said do this OFTEN in remembrance of me..He never said if they did it they would recieve any promise. Thats was made up by A group of people who twisted a lot of Gods word.


I keep taking communion also

I do it not to be given life, to never hunger and thirst, to come to christ, to recieve anything.

I do it in remembrance of him

The true bread from heaven saved me over 40 years ago.

When I take the lords supper. it reminds me of that time.. so I never forget where I came from as a child of God.

EG,

I have a complete understanding of how you, a mere man who is reading Scripture 2,000 years after it was written, do not believe that John 6 and the Last Supper are connected. Your interpretation of the Last Supper is that we just eat/drink regular bread/wine in remembrance of Him and it is not His body/blood like he said it was. Your interpretation of Scripture does not connect John 6 and the Last Supper! I have read what you have written 2,00 years AFTER these events occurred and your interpretation of those events. A mere man who wasn't there 2,000 years ago.

But then I read what Paul, who was there, writes and it makes we wonder, Should I believe EG's writings or Paul's writings: The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? 27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.

I then read what a student of the Apostle John writes......Yes JOHN, THAT JOHN, the person you are trying to interpret 2,000 years later....And what that person writes, a person who actually TALKED to John, is not what YOU are writing. Soooooo I am having a tough time deciding who to believe. YOU or Ignatius of Antioch; I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the Bread of God, WHICH IS THE FLESH OF JESUS CHRIST, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I DESIRE HIS BLOOD, which is love incorruptible. (Letter to the Romans 7:3)

Take care, then, to use one Eucharist, so that whatever you do, you do according to God: FOR THERE IS ONE FLESH OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, and one cup IN THE UNION OF HIS BLOOD; one ALTAR, as there is one bishop with the presbytery… (Letter to the Philadelphians 4:1)

They [i.e. the Gnostics] abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that THE EUCHARIST IS THE FLESH OF OUR SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST, flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in his goodness, raised up again. (Letter to Smyrnians 7:1)

Well that's weird....What Ignatius said matches up with what Paul said and what Paul said matches up with what Jesus said and since Ignatius is a student of John then that must mean that he is repeating what JOHN TOLD HIM.

What EG has said A THOUSAND times doesn't match up with what Jesus and Paul and John and Ignatius said. So YES, you are right EG. You can say something 1,000 times and it still doesn't make it true!!


I know, I know we can't trust the writings of someone who the Catholic Church says is a student of John. The CC killed everyone that disagreed with them therefore we don't know for sure blah blah blah yada yada yada......Please don't go there.

 

[Ziggy]

Tithing.. Bring a tenth of your increase... (profit) to the tent of meeting and everybody gets to share.

That was the original intent.
In the OT it's food. Wheat, oil, animals...
But it became arduous for people to travel with the goods.
So they exchanged their goods for money and when they came to the temple they would exchange the money for the sacrifices.
It became Big Business. That's why Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple and yelled:
My Father's house is a house of Prayer but you have turned it into a den of thieves.

Tithing...
You see the same thing in Acts, where everyone sold what they had and distributed among the people, so they all had everything in common.

What did Jesus say?
Jhn 13:16
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

Is the Pope a Levitical Priest?
Because I'm pretty sure Jesus done away with the Levitical priesthood by nailing those ordinances to the cross.

And who got the tithes???

Num 18:24
But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.
Num 18:25
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Num 18:26
Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.
Num 18:27
And this your heave offering shall be reckoned unto you, as though it were the corn of the threshingfloor, and as the fulness of the winepress.
Num 18:28
Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the LORD of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the LORD'S heave offering to Aaron the priest.

And what is the heave offering? Trying to stay in context of the OP here.

Num 15:19
Then it shall be, that, when ye eat of the bread of the land, ye shall offer up an heave offering unto the LORD.
Num 15:20
Ye shall offer up a cake of the first of your dough for an heave offering: as ye do the heave offering of the threshingfloor, so shall ye heave it.
Num 15:21
Of the first of your dough ye shall give unto the LORD an heave offering in your generations.

BREAD.

Why does the Catholic Religion maintain the traditions of the Levitical Priesthood which was done away In Christ?

In the NT the tithes were brought to the temple as sacrifices offered for their sins.
Jesus did away with that by taking our sin upon himself. He is the only and ultimate sacrifice that was worthy to take away the sin of the world. And yet churches today carry on the tradition, and use tithes for penance.

Boggles the mind.