John Darby

[Davy]

No, the last verse of Rev 17 gives us a description of the whore(woman).....

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Which was Rome.

Jerusalem was reigning over nothing when this was written, much less the kings over the earth.

Who says that Revelation 17 Scripture was a past prophecy? It is still future, unless you have succumbed to the Preterist false traditions of men; sounds like you have.

 

[Davy]

No, the last verse of Rev 17 gives us a description of the whore(woman).....

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Which was Rome.

Jerusalem was reigning over nothing when this was written, much less the kings over the earth.

When the prophet Daniel was told by the angel when asked how long would it be till those events in Daniel 12, he was told to shut up the prophecy until the end. That means the end of this world. Christ's Book of Revelation is mostly about events leading up to the very end of this present world, and thereafter. So it is truly silly to hold to such an ignorant doctrine of men like Preterism in regards to Christ's Book of Revelation.

 

[Truther]

Who says that Revelation 17 Scripture was a past prophecy? It is still future, unless you have succumbed to the Preterist false traditions of men; sounds like you have.

I am speaking of the PRESENT RCC as the iron/clay mix in Daniel.

I see what you are talking about now.

I pummel preterists, and am an expert at it.

You are saying today's Jerusalem, not 1st century Jerusalem, right?

Even at that, today's Jerusalem reigns over nobody.

 

[Truther]

When the prophet Daniel was told by the angel when asked how long would it be till those events in Daniel 12, he was told to shut up the prophecy until the end. That means the end of this world. Christ's Book of Revelation is mostly about events leading up to the very end of this present world, and thereafter. So it is truly silly to hold to such an ignorant doctrine of men like Preterism in regards to Christ's Book of Revelation.

Here's the deal. I am not a preterist, but their nightmare.

Daniel speaks of an image of iron/clay feet.

This is the 2000 year old Roman Catholic Church, that originated with iron legs in the N.T. era.

This old kingdom evolved into the ecumenical world power we see today, with over 1 billion followers.

They are the great whore, the counterfeit church that has deceived the world for nearly 2 millenniums.

They will be destroyed during the tribulation and Rome itself will be uninhabitable during the millennial reign.

 

[Davy]

I am speaking of the PRESENT RCC as the iron/clay mix in Daniel.

I see what you are talking about now.

I pummel preterists, and am an expert at it.

You are saying today's Jerusalem, not 1st century Jerusalem, right?

Even at that, today's Jerusalem reigns over nobody.

The "great tribulation" event Lord Jesus warned about hasn't come yet. So don't hold your breath about Rome. That's not where the Antichrist's world headquarters are going to be, you'll see, if you're still alive then.

 

[Truther]

The "great tribulation" event Lord Jesus warned about hasn't come yet. So don't hold your breath about Rome. That's not where the Antichrist's world headquarters are going to be, you'll see, if you're still alive then.

I did not say the antichrist is from Rome.

Rome is being judged by God because of this....


3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities....

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

 

[Davy]

Here's the deal. I am not a preterist, but their nightmare.

Daniel speaks of an image of iron/clay feet.

This is the 2000 year old Roman Catholic Church, that originated with iron legs in the N.T. era.

This old kingdom evolved into the ecumenical world power we see today, with over 1 billion followers.

They are the great whore, the counterfeit church that has deceived the world for nearly 2 millenniums.

They will be destroyed during the tribulation and Rome itself will be uninhabitable during the millennial reign.

No, the 'legs of iron' represented the old PAGAN ROMAN EMPIRE, not Christianized Rome. The Revelation beast is over ALL peoples and nations for 42 months at the end of this world. That beast is shown ascending from the bottomless pit to kill God's two witnesses in Jerusalem within the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period. Jesus returns on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe.

So your sense of the Biblical timeline for the end of this world is way off.

 

[Truther]

No, the 'legs of iron' represented the old PAGAN ROMAN EMPIRE, not Christianized Rome. The Revelation beast is over ALL peoples and nations for 42 months at the end of this world. That beast is shown ascending from the bottomless pit to kill God's two witnesses in Jerusalem within the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period. Jesus returns on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe.

So your sense of the Biblical timeline for the end of this world is way off.

You are right, but WHO are the iron and clay feet?

Exactly, Rome has not been defeated, because the stone has not toppled the image yet.

The kingdoms of man are still happening.

 

[Davy]

I did not say the antichrist is from Rome.

Rome is being judged by God because of this....

3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities....

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Jesus didn't pronounce the blood guilt of the prophets upon Rome. He pronounced that upon the unbelieving Jews like the Pharisees (Matthew 23). So there's an obvious mistake you make.

The unbelieving Jews still hate the Roman Church because of its history against them. So it's no surprise to see your hatred posted here too. So do the occultists hate the Roman Church, like the Knights Templar which the Roman Church had their leader executed.

 

[Truther]

Jesus didn't pronounce the blood guilt of the prophets upon Rome. He pronounced that upon the unbelieving Jews like the Pharisees (Matthew 23). So there's an obvious mistake you make.

The unbelieving Jews still hate the Roman Church because of its history against them. So it's no surprise to see your hatred posted here too. So do the occultists hate the Roman Church, like the Knights Templar which the Roman Church had their leader executed.

So, how did Jerusalem ever reign over the kings of the earth when it was written until now?

 

[Davy]

You are right, but WHO are the iron and clay feet?

Exactly, Rome has not been defeated, because the stone has not toppled the image yet.

The kingdoms of man are still happening.

You should study Daniel 2 with more patience, because it declares that in final, the stone (Jesus) will smite the final beast upon its feet, and ALL the pieces of the beast image comes tumbling down 'TOGETHER'. Do you know what 'together' means by that? It means all... the previous beast kingdoms those 5 pieces represent, will be established 'together' when Jesus comes to smite it. How much of the earth would that cover, since the 'legs of iron' (Rome) only represented one piece?

 

[Truther]

You should study Daniel 2 with more patience, because it declares that in final, the stone (Jesus) will smite the final beast upon its feet, and ALL the pieces of the beast image comes tumbling down 'TOGETHER'. Do you know what 'together' means by that? It means all... the previous beast kingdoms those 5 pieces represent, will be established 'together' when Jesus comes to smite it. How much of the earth would that cover, since the 'legs of iron' (Rome) only represented one piece?

When did the stone destroy the image of Daniel 2?

 

[Davy]

So, how did Jerusalem ever reign over the kings of the earth when it was written until now?

It's because that reign over all the kings of the earth has still yet to happen today. It won't begin until the pseudo-Christ shows up in Jerusalem at the end of this world. Rev.17 showed you those ten kings don't come to power until the beast king comes to power, and even reveals they will rule only "one hour" with that beast, pointing to a very short time, like the latter 1260 days of Daniel's final "one week", not 2,000 years.

 

[Davy]

When did the stone destroy the image of Daniel 2?

Didn't happen yet. That is about the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ.

 

[Truther]

It's because that reign over all the kings of the earth has still yet to happen today. It won't begin until the pseudo-Christ shows up in Jerusalem at the end of this world. Rev.17 showed you those ten kings don't come to power until the beast king comes to power, and even reveals they will rule only "one hour" with that beast, pointing to a very short time, like the latter 1260 days of Daniel's final "one week", not 2,000 years.

That's a stretch.

 

[Truther]

Didn't happen yet. That is about the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ.

Right, so the iron/clay is still considered the 4th kingdom, which is still in force.

Rome rules Christianity in numbers and influence, which is exactly what this means....

42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... This is the 2000 year old Roman Catholic Church ...

How many more people are TIRED OF CATHOLIC BASHERS? They spout their hatred from the core of their ignorance, and act as though it's "Scriptural". What absolute HOG WASH:

“[The] five of whom are fallen [presumes John’s work to be written in] Vespasian’s reign. Titus is to come, but only to last for a short time. Perhaps the writer knew of the hopeless condition of Titus’ health. He is therefore either using a literary convention, and assuming an earlier date than is the fact to give his words the force of a prophecy concerning Titus, or, more likely, he is using here material written in Vespasian’s reign which partly suits his purpose and partly not; for there are very good reasons for thinking that this book was written, not in Vespasian’s reign, but in Domitian’s.”[1]

[1] Eiselen, Frederick, Edwin Lewis, & David Downey, The Abingdon Bible Commentary, Abingdon Press, NY, 1929 p. 1392​

MOST people would pause and reflect, .-- but there's NO "CHECK" on this individual's IGNORANCE ...
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

Right, so the iron/clay is still considered the 4th kingdom ...

2:45 Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE

REALLY,? -- Are you that removed from REALITY, both in Scripture and History?!?


Silly people ...
Bobby Jo

 

[Keraz]

The only reason why you'd latch onto the Rome idea is because you are deceived into believing safety is going to be in Jerusalem during the coming tribulation, when it will be just the opposite according to Christ's Olivet discourse for the end.

This is not my belief. Revelation 12:14 says the faithful Christians will be taken to a place of safety, far away from Jerusalem, for the final 1260 days.
Seems you are the one 'playing games' here.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... Revelation 12:14 says the faithful Christians will be taken to a place of safety, far away from Jerusalem, for the final 1260 days.

You apply incorrectly.

Bobby Jo