John Darby

[Truther]

How so?

By "spiritualizing" a portion of a promise to future national Israel, which does not include anyone else.

 

[Candidus]

pre-trib was taught in the early church because it is Bible truth!!

Ephraem of Nisibis (306-373 a.d.), which clearly teaches that believers will be raptured and taken to Heaven before The Tribulation.

Ephraem of Nisibis was the most important and prolific of the Syrian church fathers and a witness to early Christianity on the fringes of the Roman Empire in the late fourth century.

He was well-known for his poetry, exegetical and theological writings, and many of the hymns of the early Byzantine church. So popular were his works that in the fifth and sixth centuries he was adopted by several Christian communities as a spiritual leader and role model.

This sermon is deemed to be one of the most interesting apocalyptic texts of the early Middle Ages. The translation of the sermon includes the following segment:

“For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.”

An aberration does not prove a Christian doctrine. One can concede that Ephraem held a pre-tribulational view before the introduction of pre-tribulation from a teenage girl's dream in the 1800's, and yet be dishonest in not admitting that there is no evidence before or after Ephraem that shows that this teaching was common, known or accepted doctrine in the Early Church.

But let's get this straight... why wasn't Ephraem's doctrine adopted before, during and after in the Ante-Nicene period? Was it the stifling of the Pope's and corrupt Roman Catholic Church? Such has just as much historical evidence as sayin little green space aliens came down from outer space with phasers, and tried to destroy all evidence of the doctrine in the Early Church.

Secondly, was Ephraem actually in the line of real Christianity? In the Encyclopedia of Early Christianity (Ferguson and Garland), we learn what and who Ephraem was:

"Beginning characteristically with the unique Syrian type of ante-nicene Christianity-- with its Encratism, Gnosticism, and special relationship to Judaism--- Ephraem introduced these features into an orthodox Christian framework, based upon a vision of the world as a vast system of symbols or mysteries." (page 304.) Bold type mine.

The introduction of Gnosticism formed many heretical sects in the Early Church. Gnosticism was a cancer that once accepted, metastasizes and infects the entire body. Why wasn't his doctrine accepted? Not by some imaginary attack from evil Pope's, but that it was fringe "christianity," it was not the doctrine that was handed down to the Apostles, and those taught by the Apostles.

While for the most part, most critics would place his writings "mostly" in the realm of orthodoxy, we know that his unorthodox teachings were never common or accepted in the Early Church.

 

[GISMYS_7]

An aberration does not prove a Christian doctrine. One can concede that Ephraem held a pre-tribulational view before the introduction of pre-tribulation from a teenage girl's dream in the 1800's, and yet be dishonest in not admitting that there is no evidence before or after Ephraem that shows that this teaching was common, known or accepted doctrine in the Early Church.

But let's get this straight... why wasn't Ephraem's doctrine adopted before, during and after in the Ante-Nicene period? Was it the stifling of the Pope's and corrupt Roman Catholic Church? Such has just as much historical evidence as sayin little green space aliens came down from outer space with phasers, and tried to destroy all evidence of the doctrine in the Early Church.

Secondly, was Ephraem actually in the line of real Christianity? In the Encyclopedia of Early Christianity (Ferguson and Garland), we learn what and who Ephraem was:

"Beginning characteristically with the unique Syrian type of ante-nicene Christianity-- with its Encratism, Gnosticism, and special relationship to Judaism--- Ephraem introduced these features into an orthodox Christian framework, based upon a vision of the world as a vast system of symbols or mysteries." (page 304.) Bold type mine.

The introduction of Gnosticism formed many heretical sects in the Early Church. Gnosticism was a cancer that once accepted, metastasizes and infects the entire body. Why wasn't his doctrine accepted? Not by some imaginary attack from evil Pope's, but that it was fringe "christianity," it was not the doctrine that was handed down to the Apostles, and those taught by the Apostles.

While for the most part, most critics would place his writings "mostly" in the realm of orthodoxy, we know that his unorthodox teachings were never common or accepted in the Early Church.

Example of a very eary church leader that believed the Bible truth of the pre-trib rapture ===but early popes trashed that Bible Truth!!! Ephraem of Nisibis (306-373 a.d.), which clearly teaches that believers will be raptured and taken to Heaven before The Tribulation.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Example of a very early church leader that believed the Bible truth of the pre-trib rapture ...

FALSE understandings of Scripture have existed from the first day pen was put to paper. And FALSE Teachers have perpetuated FALSE Doctrines, and STILL DO, -- as evidenced.

Bobby Jo

 

[Candidus]

Example of a very eary church leader that believed the Bible truth of the pre-trib rapture ===but early popes trashed that Bible Truth!!! Ephraem of Nisibis (306-373 a.d.), which clearly teaches that believers will be raptured and taken to Heaven before The Tribulation.

Which historical source from the fourth century proves that the Pope's opposed this?

I didn't think so...

 

[Candidus]

FALSE understandings of Scripture have existed from the first day pen was put to paper. And FALSE Teachers have perpetuated FALSE Doctrines, and STILL DO, -- as evidenced.

Bobby Jo

One single Gnostic interloper added it into the Christian system... and it never took hold!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This is what the enemies of Darby and the Pre-tribulation Rapture would say.

However, Darby was simply presenting what was in Scripture since 30 AD, and for whatever reason he had missed it early on in his ministry.

"Darby came to understand that the church could be taken to heaven at any moment without signs preceding that event, in what would later be known as the pretribulational rapture of the church. Darby’s realization of a change in dispensations laid the groundwork for the development of dispensationalism, since he saw a distinction between God’s plan for the church and His plan for Israel. By this time, Darby also developed a pessimistic view of the visible church, Christendom, and came to believe that it was in utter ruins..."
https://www.pre-trib.org/pretribfiles/pdfs/Ice-JohnNelsonDarbyandtheRapture.pdf

The strange thing is that any Christian who reads John 14:1-3 would see this truth immediately. So Darby too should have seen it right away, but he did not.

Those who oppose the Pre-tribulation Rapture resort all kinds of ad hominem attacks as well as propaganda. Christians should ignore all that and focus on the Bible itself, and the words of Christ and the apostles. In fact, the words of Christ Himself should suffice.

What most people forget is that allegorical interpretation and covenant theology took hold or gained popularity with Augustine, and controlled Christendom for over a millenia.

The reformation finally brought Scriptures to light and allowed people to learn from SCripture sound doctrine instead of relying on the parish priest.
It did take several centuries to clear the major doctrines up so eschatology was a very little studied doctrinein the reformation. but when it was opened up in Gods time, the pre trib rapture came back to light after over 1500 years! The term raputre was new, but the event it describes is as old as Paul being taught in in the desert by Jesus!

 

[GISMYS_7]

Caught up IS the rapture!!!

Ephraim the Syrian (A.D. 376)

Also in the fourth century, Ephraim the Syrian wrote a small book entitled, ANTICHRIST AND THE END OF THE WORLD. He published this and other works in A.D. 376. His works remained in relative obscurity throughout the centuries in their native language. They were only recently translated into English.

In ANTICHRIST AND THE END OF THE WORLD, Ephraim said, “We ought to understand thoroughly, therefore my brothers, what is imminent or overhanging. Already there have been hungers and plagues, violent movements of nations and sins, which have been predicted by the Lord. Prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ so that He may draw us from the confusion which overwhelms the world. Believe you me, dearest brothers, because the coming of the Lord is nigh. Believe you me because the end of the world is at hand. Believe me because it is the very last time.

Because all Saints and the elect of the Lord are gathered together before the Tribulation which is about to come and are taken to the Lord in order that they may not see at anytime the confusion that overwhelms the world.==The rapture!!!

 

[Bobby Jo]

... in A.D. 376 ...

Dan. 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.​

Obedience is the FIRST STEP to understanding.
Bobby Jo

 

[Keraz]

One single Gnostic interloper added it into the Christian system... and it never took hold!

Sadly Ephraem's Biblically unsupported belief of a removal of God's people to heaven, has taken hold.
Millions firmly believe they will be 'raptured', taken up to heaven before the Lord sends His fiery wrath upon the earth. Most who hold to this belief, do so because it is he only end time event they have been taught. Those who teach false theories will be severely Judged. James 3:1
And those who have believed in a 'rapture', will be shocked and terrified when they remain on earth during God's wrath.
This state of affairs is very unfortunate, but God has allowed it to happen, so that when the time of testing does come, 1 Peter 4:12, those whose faith is weak, will be winnowed out. Matthew 3:11-12

 

[n2thelight]

By "spiritualizing" a portion of a promise to future national Israel, which does not include anyone else.

It's no such thing as national Israel,again 2 choices, satan or Christ ,period!!!

John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me."

Friend, that is the only way to eternal life that Jesus Christ will give to you upon repentance. That is the way, the truth, the life and the only path. When you are in that way, then you are in the resting place that you can have here on earth even now. Those resting places are the many mansions that we can enjoy today, not in some distant future, on some far off planet.

There is no other way to God the Father but through your repentance for your sins in Jesus name. When you repent "in Jesus name," it means that you believe that Jesus was the very Son of God, begotten of the Father, and that He was born of the virgin Mary. It means you believe Jesus suffered under Pilot, died on the cross, and that Jesus Christ's shed blood on the cross was the only pure sacrifice that that could make full payment for sin. Then on the third day Jesus came out of the tomb resurrected, and ascended into heaven to sit on the right hand of the Father, where He is until His coming. When you say you "believe in Jesus Christ and repent in Jesus name", that is what you believe. If you can't accept that, then you just don't believe. The name of Jesus is the only credentials that you can have at the throne of God in heaven.

Friend, Jesus did that very thing and if you believe that, then you have accepted the only way, the truth and eternal life that only the Father can give, and your credentials are those that Jesus has given you.

Don't care if you can trace your linage all the way back,if you don't believe in Christ,you are not His,PERIOD!!!

All in Christ are Israel ,those who are not,belong to satan,or do you just assume that whom YOU see as Israel,ie,Jews will be saved just because?

 

[Truther]

It's no such thing as national Israel,again 2 choices, satan or Christ ,period!!!

John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me."

Friend, that is the only way to eternal life that Jesus Christ will give to you upon repentance. That is the way, the truth, the life and the only path. When you are in that way, then you are in the resting place that you can have here on earth even now. Those resting places are the many mansions that we can enjoy today, not in some distant future, on some far off planet.

There is no other way to God the Father but through your repentance for your sins in Jesus name. When you repent "in Jesus name," it means that you believe that Jesus was the very Son of God, begotten of the Father, and that He was born of the virgin Mary. It means you believe Jesus suffered under Pilot, died on the cross, and that Jesus Christ's shed blood on the cross was the only pure sacrifice that that could make full payment for sin. Then on the third day Jesus came out of the tomb resurrected, and ascended into heaven to sit on the right hand of the Father, where He is until His coming. When you say you "believe in Jesus Christ and repent in Jesus name", that is what you believe. If you can't accept that, then you just don't believe. The name of Jesus is the only credentials that you can have at the throne of God in heaven.

Friend, Jesus did that very thing and if you believe that, then you have accepted the only way, the truth and eternal life that only the Father can give, and your credentials are those that Jesus has given you.

Don't care if you can trace your linage all the way back,if you don't believe in Christ,you are not His,PERIOD!!!

All in Christ are Israel ,those who are not,belong to satan,or do you just assume that whom YOU see as Israel,ie,Jews will be saved just because?

You teach replacement theology....unless you think the mass of O.T.(and some N.T.) scripture has God lying to Abraham, etc(the fathers).

 

[GISMYS_7]

Sadly Ephraem's Biblically unsupported belief of a removal of God's people to heaven, has taken hold.
Millions firmly believe they will be 'raptured', taken up to heaven before the Lord sends His fiery wrath upon the earth. Most who hold to this belief, do so because it is he only end time event they have been taught. Those who teach false theories will be severely Judged. James 3:1
And those who have believed in a 'rapture', will be shocked and terrified when they remain on earth during God's wrath.
This state of affairs is very unfortunate, but God has allowed it to happen, so that when the time of testing does come, 1 Peter 4:12, those whose faith is weak, will be winnowed out. Matthew 3:11-12

Feel free to ask God that you be left behind to enjoy God's judgment on this evil God rejectingworld.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Sadly Ephraem's Biblically unsupported belief of a removal of God's people to heaven, has taken hold.
Millions firmly believe they will be 'raptured', taken up to heaven before the Lord sends His fiery wrath upon the earth. Most who hold to this belief, do so because it is he only end time event they have been taught. Those who teach false theories will be severely Judged. James 3:1
And those who have believed in a 'rapture', will be shocked and terrified when they remain on earth during God's wrath.
This state of affairs is very unfortunate, but God has allowed it to happen, so that when the time of testing does come, 1 Peter 4:12, those whose faith is weak, will be winnowed out. Matthew 3:11-12

Jesus says==Luke 21:36 36Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."
1 Thess 5:9: For God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

 

[Keraz]

You teach replacement theology....unless you think the mass of O.T.(and some N.T.) scripture has God lying to Abraham, etc(the fathers).

Read and understand Galatians 3:26-29.
There is only ONE people of God and they are His faithful Christians. ALL the rest, incl apostate Jews; are the ungodly peoples.
The Jews had the Kingdom; their special status, taken from them, Matthew 21:43, and they cursed themselves. Matthew 27:25

The theory of their eventual redemption is false, only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 29:1-4, Amos 2:4-5, Romans 9:27

 

[Keraz]

Feel free to ask God that you be left behind to enjoy God's judgment on this evil God rejectingworld.

One day you will realize how foolish you have been and be very embarrassed!

 

[Bobby Jo]

One day you will realize how foolish you have been and be very embarrassed!

... not just "foolish" and "embarrassed", but -- caught unprepared to deal with having to decide between denying Jesus, or being imprisoned/murdered; -- just as Peter was caught unprepared in his denial in the courtyard.

That's why they call it "THE GREAT FALLING AWAY" ...
Bobby Jo

 

[Randy Kluth]

Caught up IS the rapture!!!

Ephraim the Syrian (A.D. 376)

Also in the fourth century, Ephraim the Syrian wrote a small book entitled, ANTICHRIST AND THE END OF THE WORLD. He published this and other works in A.D. 376. His works remained in relative obscurity throughout the centuries in their native language. They were only recently translated into English.

In ANTICHRIST AND THE END OF THE WORLD, Ephraim said, “We ought to understand thoroughly, therefore my brothers, what is imminent or overhanging. Already there have been hungers and plagues, violent movements of nations and sins, which have been predicted by the Lord. Prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ so that He may draw us from the confusion which overwhelms the world. Believe you me, dearest brothers, because the coming of the Lord is nigh. Believe you me because the end of the world is at hand. Believe me because it is the very last time.

Because all Saints and the elect of the Lord are gathered together before the Tribulation which is about to come and are taken to the Lord in order that they may not see at anytime the confusion that overwhelms the world.==The rapture!!!

You are going to base your theology on obscure works in history and on new doctrines in the modern world? Our foundation was built on the 12 apostles of Christ, and on Paul's apostolic teachings. If you have to go to clearly obscure works to believe what you want to believe, your doctrine needs to be challenged.

 

[Enoch111]

You are going to base your theology on obscure works in history and on new doctrines in the modern world?

Actually the Pre-Tribulation Rapture was FIRST REVEALED by Christ Himself in 30 AD before His crucifixion (John 14:1-3). So those who have believed Him should be respected, whereas those who do not believe him should be rejected.

"New doctrines in a modern world" is pure propaganda -- FAKE NEWS.

 

[Truther]

Read and understand Galatians 3:26-29.
There is only ONE people of God and they are His faithful Christians. ALL the rest, incl apostate Jews; are the ungodly peoples.
The Jews had the Kingdom; their special status, taken from them, Matthew 21:43, and they cursed themselves. Matthew 27:25

The theory of their eventual redemption is false, only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 29:1-4, Amos 2:4-5, Romans 9:27

Again, you teach replacement theology which also teaches God breaks His promises and lied to the fathers.