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Featured "Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Faith" - Has 500 Years Taught Us Nothing?

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Phoneman777, Nov 2, 2018.

  1. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    I’m NOT willing to leave Christ’s Church. I was showing you the futility of your false argument.

    These men didn’t “change” prophecy – or even the meaning of it – and they certainly didn’t invent the idea of Preterism.
    Preteristic viewpoints go all the way back to writings of the Early Church Fathers. – more than 1200 years before they were born.

    YOU need to stop relying on Wikipedia for all your information and so some REAL scholarly research . . .
     
  2. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    OK....I agree that he has given us a new birth through his resurrection.

    Soooo does that mean that we SHOULDN'T follow scripture and proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes? Your Scripture cancels out my Scripture???? What's your point?

    Do you follow Scripture and proclaim his death until he comes by eating the bread and drinking the cup??? (2nd time I have asked)

    Curious Mary
     
  3. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Sooooo everyone in your church is sinless???

    Curious Mary

    BTW....Thou shall not bare false witness.....i.e. frequently predators comment.

    If you have children you should know there is a greater chance that a teacher will be a predator than a priest. Are you gonna start ranting about predator teachers now???? probably not since it doesn't fit your anti-Catholic narrative.
     
  4. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    WRONG.
    Early Church Fathers like Irenaeus, Tertullian, Melito, Hippplytus, etc. were expounding on preterism centuries earlier

    Do your HOMEWORK . . .
     
  5. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Yikes – we have another Wikipedia adherent – and NOT a serious student of history.
    Why should I be surprised that this drivel came from YOU? As I educated your pal Brakelite - the Early Church Fathers were teaching this stuff over 1200 years BEFORE the Jesuits ever existed, Einstein . . .

    And making the statement that ALL Protestant men, women, children, fetuses and zygotes throughout the whole of history profess the Pope to be the Antichrist is JUST as asinine, Einstein.

    Get a GRIP . . .
     
  6. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    That is not the issue. The issue under discussion is the mockery of the sacrifice of Christ through the Catholic Mass.

    If Christ has be to sacrificed daily by your Catholic priests, it means that His one sacrifice for sins was not perfect. But the Bible makes it perfectly clear that it was ONE SACRIFICE for sins forever. Never to be repeated.
     
  7. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Hi,

    Let me get this straight. Fulfilling what is written in scripture, For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes is, according to your theory, is a mockery of the Sacrifice of Christ? o_O

    The writers of the Didache and the practices of the NT Christians are wrong? Clement of Rome, who was a student of the Apostles, is wrong? Ignatius of Antioch, a student of the Apostle John, is wrong? But you...Enoch111 are right????? o_O

    If it is so clear in the bible would you please quote it?

    Mary
     
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  8. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    WHO said that He is sacrificed daily??
    Why
    would you make such a stupid claim??
     
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  9. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    You conveniently DODGED this:

    Thou shall not bare false witness.....i.e. frequently predators comment.

    If you have children you should know there is a greater chance that a teacher will be a predator than a priest. Are you gonna start ranting about predator teachers now???? probably not since it doesn't fit your anti-Catholic narrative.

    Would you care to defend yourself or is your intent to continue to play dodge ball and act like you didn't fib a little bit?

    Mary
     
  10. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Of course his death is important. Just as his birth. But the others are a dead-end without his resurrection.

    The bible dwells on resurrection, that of Christ, the first resurrection and the second resurrection, which is eternal punishment in the Lake.

    His death pays for sin. His resurrection gives eternal glorification and life in the New Jerusalem.

    The lords table is about resurrection, not death.
     
  11. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Hi,

    Can you explain to me how "The lords table is about resurrection"? The Lords table (The Last Supper) was a preparation for Passover (Matthew 26:17). Passover (in Hebrew, Pesach) is a holiday that commemorates the exodus of the Jews from slavery in Egypt. The word pesach refers to the ancient Passover sacrifice known as the Paschal Lamb. This was to be the Last Supper he was going to have with his Apostles before his DEATH. In Luke 22:15 he talked about his desire to eat with them before he SUFFERED (tortured and killed). In Luke 22:19 during the last supper AT THE LORDS TABLE he says "This is my body given for you". He never said anything at The Lords Table about his body RISING he ONLY talked about death, suffering and sacrifice. Who taught you your theory that The Lords Table is about resurrection???? You should find another teacher of scripture since that person has twisted scripture soooooo badly.

    I don't follow your theory: His death AND birth are a dead-end. What does that mean? Without his birth you don't have his death and without his death you can't have resurrection. They compliment each other. Without one you can't have the other two. They are all equal. (actually the birth and death could happen without the resurrection but you could never have the resurrection without the birth and death)


    Do you follow Scripture and proclaim his death until he comes by eating the bread and drinking the cup??? (3rd time I have asked)

    Mary
     
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  12. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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  13. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Hi,

    I used scripture to destroy your theory. I showed how AT NO POINT during the last supper at the lords table did Jesus talk about his resurrection. Using scripture, instead of your own theory, show me how the Lords Table has ANYTHING to do with his resurrection.

    Patient Mary

    PS...If you can't respond using Scripture to support your theory....Please don't waste our time and respond at all.
     
  14. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    That that

    The proof is simple. It never says what you claim.

    As some put it, is a celebration of his death looking forward to his and our resurrection.

    New International Version
    For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

    That is resurrection.
     
  15. epostle

    epostle Active Member

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    You are refuting yourself. Scripture says, "For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes."
    You read it to mean, "For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Resurrection." It doesn't say that. It says, "...you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. The whole verse is essentially the gospel.
    This verse is recited daily as one of the Eucharist Prayers.

    A symbol can proclaim the Lord's death until he comes? What kind of symbol can do that?
     
  16. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    Ummm, so the early church fathers thought the antichrist had already been?
     
  17. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Got it....You have no Scripture to back up your statements OR refute mine.

    You never used scripture to back up your claim so therefore, using your own logic, Scripture never says what you claim either. ;)

    Best wishes...Mary
     
  18. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    No, I mean the death looks forward to his resurrection, that what do you think until he comes means?

    And don't quote a catholic too me. It proves nothing.
     
  19. Reggie Belafonte

    Reggie Belafonte Well-Known Member

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    Yes Jesus must always be on a Cross for the understanding of who and what was done, true Christians preach a crucified Jesus, by the Sins of Fools who were fooled into following Satan's powers who did such to one who was totally Sinless for a start.
    The Cross is worthless without Jesus on it.
    I hated to see just plain Crosses in the Catholic Schools my Children went to, it was indicative of just how pathetic the schools are with most of the children who were not even Christians let alone Catholic.

    I seen an old Vampire movie of late and the Cross came out and the Vampire had a shock horror moment and took off, well I would think if such was real the Vampire would not be dithered by the cross as all, but with Jesus on it, such a one knowing it self was the living dead would know that this Cross with Jesus on it was the God of the Living and not the Dead. now that would shock such a one who is a Vampire because they would see it as there only threat to there existence that can shed a light on them for what they truly are.

    Now as for Vampires they are real the do exist but not as the movies portray them with fangs etc but there is such a one called Nosferatu that means the living dead- possessed by Satan, having no Soul, doing the works of such and there ends is to destroy peoples Souls, now that is abundantly clear to one who is Born Again, because one can clearly see the works of such at hand, such Satanic works are manifest everywhere nowadays they are draining the life blood out of there victims, so that people are numb to evil or blinded to such, just look at how people are now just sitting back content to let 8 month abortions go without any regard at all, not to mention such being looked up to in doing so, as an empowerment with a new age of self righteous ego driven power given to such degenerates. where does such insane madness end, well I will point out that that's just the beginning of the depravity, such just does not stop there, this just opens the door, next is you are too old or you can't work or there are too many people in the world, so your number came up in something like a lotto or drafted and your on your way to the gas chambers etc and people will be numb to that as well, because they do not have a soul.
    Socialism always destroys people just as Marxism does, they all have a history of being the greats murders in history because such is of what Jesus said, that they are from there father of lies and were murders from the beginning. they steal peoples Souls they corrupt Children not to mention man and work to encourage Sodomites. yes there are Vampires that wish to devour your life blood so to speak and turn you into just a number of the State were you and your name is of no regard.
     
  20. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    As usual, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and no evidence to back up your nonsense. Put down the satanic dead bread and catechisms and discover the Early Church Fathers followed what the Protestants taught, not what the Antichrist's Jesuits taught:
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________
    Hippolytus, 3rd century (comment on the four beasts of Daniel 7):

    ”The golden head of the (Daniel 2) image is identical with the lioness, by which the Babylonians were represented; the shoulders and the arms of silver are the same with the bear, by which the Persians and Medes are meant; the belly and thighs of brass are the leopard, by which the Greeks who ruled from Alexander onwards are intended; the legs of iron are the dreadful and terrible beast, by which the Romans who hold the empire now are meant; the toes of clay and iron are the ten horns which are to be; the one other little horn springing up in their (the ten horns) midst is the antichrist ; the stone that smites the image and breaks it in pieces, and that filled the whole earth, is Christ, who comes from heaven and brings judgment on the world.”

    Dead Bread, it is Protestant Historicism, not the lies of Jesuit Preterism and Jesuit Futurism, which teaches that the prophetic elements of Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 are representative of the same kingdoms.
    ______________________________________________________________
    Irenasus, 2nd century (“Against Heresies,” chap, xxvi.):
    "John, in the Apocalypse, . . . teaches us what the ten horns shall be which were seen by Daniel.”

    Dead Bread, it is Protestant Historicism, not the lies of Jesuit Preterism and Jesuit Futurism, which teaches the Ten Horns of Daniel and Revelation are the same.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________

    Victorinus, 3rd century (claims in his commentary on The Apocalypse (Revelation) of John, the EARLIEST commentary on the book of Revelation as a whole):

    • The White horse and the First Seal describe the same thing: the Gospel going forth in victory.
    • The woman of Revelation 12 is "the ancient church of the fathers, prophets, and saints and apostles."
    Dead Bread, it is Protestant Historicism, not the lies of Jesuit Preterism and Jesuit Futurism, which teaches that the 7 Churches, 7 Seals, and 7 Trumpets chronicle the same time periods and that the woman of Revelation 12 is God's people, not sinner Mary.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________


    Origen, 3rd century ("Against Celsus", bk. vi., chap. xlvi.):
    After quoting nearly the whole of Paul’s prophecy about the man of sin in 2 Thessalonians, which he interprets of the antichrist, he says : “Paul speaks of him who is called antichrist, describing, though with a certain reserve, both the manner and time and cause of his coming. . . . The prophecy also regarding antichrist is stated in the book of Daniel, and is fitted to make an intelligent and candid reader admire the words as truly Divine and prophetic ; for in them are mentioned the things relating to the coming kingdom, beginning with the times of Daniel, and continuing to the destruction of the world.”

    Jerome, 4th century (commentary on the Book of Daniel, vii):
    "...it is the man of sin, the son of perdition, who dares to sit in the temple of God, making himself as God.”

    Dead Bread, it is Protestant Historicism, not the lies of Jesuit Preterism and Jesuit Futurism, which teaches the Little Horn of Daniel, the Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition, the Beast of Revelation 13 are one in the same power: Antichrist.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________
    Tertullian, 2nd century (commenting on 2 Thessalonians 2):

    "'Now ye know what detaineth that he might be revealed in his time, for the mystery of iniquity doth already work ; only he who now hinders must hinder until he be taken out of the way.'
    "What obstacle is there but the Roman state ; the falling away of which, by being scattered into ten kingdoms, shall introduce antichrist...?"

    Chrysostom, 4th century (Commentary on 2 Thessalonians):
    "One may first naturally inquire what is that which withholdeth, and after that would know why Paul expresses this so obscurely, . . . ‘he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.’ That is, when the Roman Empire is taken out of the way, then he shall come

    St. Cyril of Jerusalem, 4th century (Catechetical Lectures, XV):
    "But this aforesaid Antichrist is to come when the times of the Roman Empire shall have been fulfilled..."

    Dead Bread, it is Protestant Historicism, not the lies of Jesuit Preterism and Jesuit Futurism, which teaches the Restrainer which Paul mentioned was preventing the rise of the Man of Sin Antichrist was the Roman Empire, not the "spirit filled church" or some other agent of holiness.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________

    READ WHAT THE ECF SAID FOR YOURSELF:
    Early Church Fathers Were Historicist – H. Grattan Guinness
     
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