"Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Faith" - Has 500 Years Taught Us Nothing?

[BreadOfLife]

It makes little difference whether the self-appointed successor of Peter rules over ten square miles or ten million square miles. If he rules, he is as verily a king as any other sovereign. Today, he is the emperor of the Vatican empire. He appoints his ambassadors, coins his money, has his own postal service. Yet why should he be made a king any more than the head of any of the Protestant churches? Such a kingship requires a union of church and state. Such a kingdom was especially condemned by Jesus.
Such a kingship is the main criteria identifying Antichrist. Such a union of church and state is the prime evidence of spiritual adultery and Apostasy. The fact that your so called early church fathers countenanced such an arrangement doesn't help your cause. It isn't something you ought to be boasting about.

Yet YOU can't escape the FALSE PROPHECIES of the founders of your SDA cult.

Some of the ECFs like Ignatius of Antioch were actually taught and trained by Apostles of Christ - unlike YOUR false prophets William Miller and Ellen White.

Remember - there is no "Great Disappointment" in Christ . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

What's idiotic is a professed papist who denies the teachings of the papacy.

The papacy boasts that it "takes the place of Christ", does it not?
The word "Antichrist" literally means "takes the place of Christ", does it not?

So, do you agree that the papacy takes the place of Christ or not?

WRONG - it does not.
Now are you going to answer my question about which Catholic doctrines I "deny"??

 

[Frank Lee]

Thank God Almighty forevermore! Praises be that I was as Amos, ignorant of anything concerning God.

All of this religious claptrap has zero to do with rescuing dying, miserable, afflicted, hopeless people does it?

While men wrestle over the superiority of their dead from the roots denominations God still has to get up and go gather sheep himself.

Thank God he cared enough to come and gather me. I owe my salvation to no denomination. Not to the one seated at Rome or anywhere else. Thousands of others have the same testimony and by grace have escaped the talons of the entrenched religious regimes.

Bringing thousands of ignorant souls into captivity of religious dead dogma is slavery to be abhorred, not a new creation in christ Jesus. Thankfully God has placed saved, Holy Spirit filled missionaries within the ranks of dead denominations to work with him in the rescue of the captives.


Ezekiel 34:10-12 KJVS
Thus saith the Lord God ; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.
[11] For thus saith the Lord God ; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out. [12] As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

The Pope is a false shepherd leading sheep to the captivity that began with the spirit of whoredom seen in Luke 11:27.

Protestant denominationalism is not much better. They preach a part of the gospel - some of them - but for the majority of them, they deny the gifts and scriptural baptism in the Holy Spirit that Jesus foretold of.

Thanks be unto God for all that have escaped denominations no matter what form they have taken.

Better to seek Jesus than to seek any man or man made denominational religion.

People are convinced that they must join a denomination to be saved, not knowing that Jesus is ready to touch them right where they are.

Follow men and be led astray. Follow the good shepherd and be led home.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Patrick was taken as a slave in his youth. He lived in Scotland with his parents, his father being a Christian...a long time before any emissary from Rome set foot in Britain.
Studying history is the very last thing you want anyone to do. What you really want is for us to believe the myths and fairytales made up by frauds such as those who wrote the donation of Constantine, and who used such frauds to empower the Roman bishop. Lies, politics, and wars were the only method known to the RCC by which to spread their fraudulent gospel. Would you like me to go into detail as to how Augustine manipulated pagan kings in Britain to make war and decimate the Celtic churches there?
You really think there is no evidence to such realities? You try and paint a pretty picture of Roman history... But the reality as I think you know, is far different. You are the one who needs to study history. Does the name Bangor in Wales ring a bell? What if those other Christian leaders and missionaries I mentioned? Patrick want the only one. Shall I mention the wars between Columbanus and the papacy in Europe after he entered papal territories to outreach the real gospel?

I’m familiar with Catholic history. I’m ALSO familiar with the perverted SDA version of it.

Patrick’s Father was a Roman citizen who held a high office. His mom was a relative of St. Martin of Tours – yes, that’s in FRANCE, where he was the THIRD Bishop in 371. I NEVER said that there was no Church is Europe. Patrick lived with his parents in Scotland.

When he was a teenager, Patrick was taken by marauders and held captive in Ireland – they were Druids. He escaped after about 6 years and went back to Britain. He later entered a monastery near Nice France. He was later ordained a Priest by St. Germain who ran the monastery.

Now – the reason Patrick was sent to Britain by Pope Celestine I was to combat the Pelagian Heresy that arose in the region and also to deal with the widespread paganism. It was actually St. Germain who was sent – and he took St. Patrick with him as one of his emissaries.

Pope Celestine later allowed Patrick to return to Ireland to evangelize the pagans there.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Thank God Almighty forevermore! Praises be that I was as Amos, ignorant of anything concerning God.

All of this religious claptrap has zero to do with rescuing dying, miserable, afflicted, hopeless people does it?

While men wrestle over the superiority of their dead from the roots denominations God still has to get up and go gather sheep himself.

Thank God he cared enough to come and gather me. I owe my salvation to no denomination. Not to the one seated at Rome or anywhere else. Thousands of others have the same testimony and by grace have escaped the talons of the entrenched religious regimes.

Bringing thousands of ignorant souls into captivity of religious dead dogma is slavery to be abhorred, not a new creation in christ Jesus. Thankfully God has placed saved, Holy Spirit filled missionaries within the ranks of dead denominations to work with him in the rescue of the captives.


Ezekiel 34:10-12 KJVS
Thus saith the Lord God ; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.
[11] For thus saith the Lord God ; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out. [12] As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

The Pope is a false shepherd leading sheep to the captivity that began with the spirit of whoredom seen in Luke 11:27.

Protestant denominationalism is not much better. They preach a part of the gospel - some of them - but for the majority of them, they deny the gifts and scriptural baptism in the Holy Spirit that Jesus foretold of.

Thanks be unto God for all that have escaped denominations no matter what form they have taken.

Better to seek Jesus than to seek any man or man made denominational religion.

People are convinced that they must join a denomination to be saved, not knowing that Jesus is ready to touch them right where they are.

Follow men and be led astray. Follow the good shepherd and be led home.

Thank God Almighty that He left us with His Church, His Body – and did not leave us as lost, orphaned, “Lone Ranger” followers like YOU.

Gotta hand it to you, though – your LAST comment hits the nail right on the HEAD:
“Better to seek Jesus than to seek any man or man made denominational religion.”

Thank God Almighty that HE built my Church – and NOT flawed, sinful men in the 16th century and beyond that built all of YOURS . . .

 

[Phoneman777]

I LOVE when ignorant anti-Catholics like YOU...

I stopped reading after the "anti-catholics" part...because until you learn the difference between what is "anti-catholics" and what is "anti-catholic DOCTRINE" (which I and many others here are proud to be, since they are doctrines of devils sent into the world and entrusted with the care of the papacy), whatever else you have to say is not worthy of consideration.

 

[Phoneman777]

WRONG - it does not.
Now are you going to answer my question about which Catholic doctrines I "deny"??

"We hold upon this Earth the place of God almighty." - a dead pope.
"He is Jesus Christ Himself, hidden under the veil of flesh." - another dead pope.

Dead Bread, stop being so obtuse.

 

[BreadOfLife]

"I stopped reading" . . .

And that speaks VOLUMES about your ignorance . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

"We hold upon this Earth the place of God almighty." - a dead pope.
"He is Jesus Christ Himself, hidden under the veil of flesh." - another dead pope.

Dead Bread, stop being so obtuse.

When YOU stop being so dishonest ad secretive.

You see, son - in a debate, you must provide names, dates - and FULL CONTEXT for your quotes if you want to be taken seriously. Otherwise, you'll just keep getting humiliated by me . . .

 

[brakelite]

I’m familiar with Catholic history. I’m ALSO familiar with the perverted SDA version of it.

Patrick’s Father was a Roman citizen who held a high office. His mom was a relative of St. Martin of Tours – yes, that’s in FRANCE, where he was the THIRD Bishop in 371. I NEVER said that there was no Church is Europe. Patrick lived with his parents in Scotland.

When he was a teenager, Patrick was taken by marauders and held captive in Ireland – they were Druids. He escaped after about 6 years and went back to Britain. He later entered a monastery near Nice France. He was later ordained a Priest by St. Germain who ran the monastery.

Now – the reason Patrick was sent to Britain by Pope Celestine I was to combat the Pelagian Heresy that arose in the region and also to deal with the widespread paganism. It was actually St. Germain who was sent – and he took St. Patrick with him as one of his emissaries.

Pope Celestine later allowed Patrick to return to Ireland to evangelize the pagans there.

Then you would be familiar with the fact that Celtic Ireland received the gospel from Asia Minor...not Rome, and that the scriptures they used originated in Antioch, being of the itala language, not Roman latin. The Galatian churches were Celtic. As were the churches in Gaul. For centuries before Christ, and centuries after, those Celts traded, corresponded, and travelled among one another freely. This is how the gospel reached Ireland...not from Celestine or any other Roman.
If the Celtic church was Catholic, please explain the wars and centuries of persecution and threats that rained down on the Celtic Christians by Catholic kings, bishops, and emissaries of Rome such as Augustine, if they refused to surrender to Papal authority?
You might also no doubt be able to explain why that celebrated Catholic historian, Bede, who lived 200 years after Patrick, did not mention him as a Catholic? Certainly later, many fanciful stories arose regarding Patricks Catholic credentials, such as …
“Sleep came over the inhabitants of Rome, so that Patrick brought away as much as he wanted of the relics. Afterward those relics were taken to Armagh by the counsel of God and the counsel of the men of Ireland. What was brought then was three hundred and threescore and five relics, together with the relics of Paul and Peter and Lawrence and Stephen, and many others. And a sheet was there with Christ's blood [thereon] and with the hair of Mary the Virgin.”
Stokes, Chronicles and Memorials of Great Britain and Ireland, vol. 89, pt. 1, p. 239.

and this....
The Celtic Patrick reached Ireland in an ordinary way. The fictitious Patrick, in order to provide passage for a leper when there was no place on the boat, threw his portable stone altar into the sea. The stone did not go to the bottom, nor was it outdistanced by the boat, but it floated around the boat with the leper on it until it reached Ireland.
Stokes, Chronicles and Memorials of Great Britain and Ireland, vol. 89, pt. 2, pp. 447-449.

But Dr. Killen refutes this story by declaring:
He (Patrick) never mentions either Rome or the pope or hints that he was in any way connected with the ecclesiastical capital of Italy. He recognizes no other authority but that of the word of God ... When Palladius arrived in the country, it was not to be expected that he would receive a very hearty welcome from the Irish apostle. If he was sent by [Pope] Celestine to the native Christians to be their primate or archbishop, no wonder that stouthearted Patrick refused to bow his neck to any such yoke of bondage.
Killen, Ecclesiastical History of Ireland, vol. 1, pp. 12-15.

The claim to 'owning' Patrick as one of their own was a Catholic invention of later years when his esteemed reputation could no longer be denied, or ignored.

 

[Phoneman777]

And that speaks VOLUMES about your ignorance . . .

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him." Proverbs 26:4

 

[Phoneman777]

When YOU stop being so dishonest ad secretive.

You see, son - in a debate, you must provide names, dates - and FULL CONTEXT for your quotes if you want to be taken seriously. Otherwise, you'll just keep getting humiliated by me . . .

Please stop pretending we're never provided you with such, silly deceptive papist servant of the papal Antichrist, and please stop behaving as if there's no public library or internet at which these quotes are there for all to see...and much more.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Then you would be familiar with the fact that Celtic Ireland received the gospel from Asia Minor...not Rome, and that the scriptures they used originated in Antioch, being of the itala language, not Roman latin. The Galatian churches were Celtic. As were the churches in Gaul. For centuries before Christ, and centuries after, those Celts traded, corresponded, and travelled among one another freely. This is how the gospel reached Ireland...not from Celestine or any other Roman.
If the Celtic church was Catholic, please explain the wars and centuries of persecution and threats that rained down on the Celtic Christians by Catholic kings, bishops, and emissaries of Rome such as Augustine, if they refused to surrender to Papal authority?
You might also no doubt be able to explain why that celebrated Catholic historian, Bede, who lived 200 years after Patrick, did not mention him as a Catholic? Certainly later, many fanciful stories arose regarding Patricks Catholic credentials, such as …
“Sleep came over the inhabitants of Rome, so that Patrick brought away as much as he wanted of the relics. Afterward those relics were taken to Armagh by the counsel of God and the counsel of the men of Ireland. What was brought then was three hundred and threescore and five relics, together with the relics of Paul and Peter and Lawrence and Stephen, and many others. And a sheet was there with Christ's blood [thereon] and with the hair of Mary the Virgin.”
Stokes, Chronicles and Memorials of Great Britain and Ireland, vol. 89, pt. 1, p. 239.

and this....
The Celtic Patrick reached Ireland in an ordinary way. The fictitious Patrick, in order to provide passage for a leper when there was no place on the boat, threw his portable stone altar into the sea. The stone did not go to the bottom, nor was it outdistanced by the boat, but it floated around the boat with the leper on it until it reached Ireland.
Stokes, Chronicles and Memorials of Great Britain and Ireland, vol. 89, pt. 2, pp. 447-449.

But Dr. Killen refutes this story by declaring:
He (Patrick) never mentions either Rome or the pope or hints that he was in any way connected with the ecclesiastical capital of Italy. He recognizes no other authority but that of the word of God ... When Palladius arrived in the country, it was not to be expected that he would receive a very hearty welcome from the Irish apostle. If he was sent by [Pope] Celestine to the native Christians to be their primate or archbishop, no wonder that stouthearted Patrick refused to bow his neck to any such yoke of bondage.
Killen, Ecclesiastical History of Ireland, vol. 1, pp. 12-15.

The claim to 'owning' Patrick as one of their own was a Catholic invention of later years when his esteemed reputation could no longer be denied, or ignored.

Ahhhh, yes - the anti-Catholic Presbyterian version of Catholic Church history.

William Killen?? Please . . .

Reading Church “history”from somebody with an ax to grind makes as much sense as a student grading the teacher he hates most.

This is the same guy who claimed that the 7 Letter of Ignatius of Antioch were completely fraudulent – a claim NOT shared by the consensus of scholarship. Ignatius’s Letters were just a little too “Catholic” for him - so instead of addressing them – he simply discounted them. If NOTHING else – this proves Killen to be just another anti-Catholic FRAUD.

Your other source, “The Chronicles and Memorials of Great Britain and Ireland”, commonly known as the “Rolls Series”includes yet another Protestant version of the facts about St. Patrick – a Catholic priest who lived more than a THOUSANDyears before there even were such a thing as “Protestants”.

Fishing for anti-Catholic sources doesn’t bolster your position. I could just as easily find a bizarre claim that your Pope-ess, Ellen G. White came from Mars - I wouldn’t be able to find corroborating evidencefor it.

I’ve heard similar nonsense about St. Patrick from anti-Catholics for YEARS including the idea that he was really from Africa, that he carried a Bible with him, etc.

Your claims that later emissaries to Ireland didn’t mention the fact that Patrick was “Catholic” is an asinine point because the Catholic Church was the ONLY Christian entity at the time, so WHY would they?? Regarding Christianity - there was the Catholic Church and then there were various heretical offshoots.

Try again . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Please stop pretending we're never provided you with such, silly deceptive papist servant of the papal Antichrist, and please stop behaving as if there's no public library or internet at which these quotes are there for all to see...and much more.

Then SUPPLY the names, dates and publications.

WHY are you so afraid to give me the origins of your "quotes", hmmmmm??

 

[brakelite]

Then you would be familiar with the fact that Celtic Ireland received the gospel from Asia Minor...not Rome, and that the scriptures they used originated in Antioch, being of the itala language, not Roman latin. The Galatian churches were Celtic. As were the churches in Gaul. For centuries before Christ, and centuries after, those Celts traded, corresponded, and travelled among one another freely. This is how the gospel reached Ireland...not from Celestine or any other Roman.
If the Celtic church was Catholic, please explain the wars and centuries of persecution and threats that rained down on the Celtic Christians by Catholic kings, bishops, and emissaries of Rome such as Augustine, if they refused to surrender to Papal authority?
You might also no doubt be able to explain why that celebrated Catholic historian, Bede, who lived 200 years after Patrick, did not mention him as a Catholic? Certainly later, many fanciful stories arose regarding Patricks Catholic credentials, such as …
“Sleep came over the inhabitants of Rome, so that Patrick brought away as much as he wanted of the relics. Afterward those relics were taken to Armagh by the counsel of God and the counsel of the men of Ireland. What was brought then was three hundred and threescore and five relics, together with the relics of Paul and Peter and Lawrence and Stephen, and many others. And a sheet was there with Christ's blood [thereon] and with the hair of Mary the Virgin.”
Stokes, Chronicles and Memorials of Great Britain and Ireland, vol. 89, pt. 1, p. 239.

and this....
The Celtic Patrick reached Ireland in an ordinary way. The fictitious Patrick, in order to provide passage for a leper when there was no place on the boat, threw his portable stone altar into the sea. The stone did not go to the bottom, nor was it outdistanced by the boat, but it floated around the boat with the leper on it until it reached Ireland.
Stokes, Chronicles and Memorials of Great Britain and Ireland, vol. 89, pt. 2, pp. 447-449.

But Dr. Killen refutes this story by declaring:
He (Patrick) never mentions either Rome or the pope or hints that he was in any way connected with the ecclesiastical capital of Italy. He recognizes no other authority but that of the word of God ... When Palladius arrived in the country, it was not to be expected that he would receive a very hearty welcome from the Irish apostle. If he was sent by [Pope] Celestine to the native Christians to be their primate or archbishop, no wonder that stouthearted Patrick refused to bow his neck to any such yoke of bondage.
Killen, Ecclesiastical History of Ireland, vol. 1, pp. 12-15.

The claim to 'owning' Patrick as one of their own was a Catholic invention of later years when his esteemed reputation could no longer be denied, or ignored.

Ahhhh, yes - the anti-Catholic Presbyterian version of Catholic Church history.

William Killen?? Please . . .

Reading Church “history”from somebody with an ax to grind makes as much sense as a student grading the teacher he hates most.

This is the same guy who claimed that the 7 Letter of Ignatius of Antioch were completely fraudulent – a claim NOT shared by the consensus of scholarship. Ignatius’s Letters were just a little too “Catholic” for him - so instead of addressing them – he simply discounted them. If NOTHING else – this proves Killen to be just another anti-Catholic FRAUD.

Your other source, “The Chronicles and Memorials of Great Britain and Ireland”, commonly known as the “Rolls Series”includes yet another Protestant version of the facts about St. Patrick – a Catholic priest who lived more than a THOUSANDyears before there even were such a thing as “Protestants”.

Fishing for anti-Catholic sources doesn’t bolster your position. I could just as easily find a bizarre claim that your Pope-ess, Ellen G. White came from Mars - I wouldn’t be able to find corroborating evidencefor it.

I’ve heard similar nonsense about St. Patrick from anti-Catholics for YEARS including the idea that he was really from Africa, that he carried a Bible with him, etc.

Your claims that later emissaries to Ireland didn’t mention the fact that Patrick was “Catholic” is an asinine point because the Catholic Church was the ONLY Christian entity at the time, so WHY would they?? Regarding Christianity - there was the Catholic Church and then there were various heretical offshoots.

Try again . . .

Care to comment on the rest of my post? Your dismissal of those historians just because they disagree with you is as close minded as a vegetarian polar bear. But what about Bede? What about the wars and persecutions throughout the following 1500 years that brought death and destruction to thousands of innocent Christians throughout Britain?

Then SUPPLY the names, dates and publications.

WHY are you so afraid to give me the origins of your "quotes", hmmmmm??

What would be the point of further evidence when iit is dismissed simply because its distasteful to your over-sensitive palate? You know full well there are many references and historical documents verifying that the church prides itself in using titles and names that exalt itself to the level of, and even greater glory than God Himself. You likely know them better than us, and use them when you think no-one is looking. Is not the pic below an example of your pope exalting himself as equal to God???

 

[brakelite]

☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝
Sitting on a Great White Throne dressed in white between the cherubim and the 4 beasts.....

 

[Phoneman777]

Then SUPPLY the names, dates and publications.

WHY are you so afraid to give me the origins of your "quotes", hmmmmm??

I told you what are the origins of such statements: from the god of the papacy - Lucifer.

Only Lucifer would inspire ignorant, stupid men to claim "we hold upon this Earth the place of God almighty" and "he (pope) is Jesus Christ, hidden under veil of flesh" and "thou art the Shepherd, thou art the Physician, thou art the governor, thou art the husbandman, thou finally, art another God on Earth."

 

[Phoneman777]

Care to comment on the rest of my post? Your dismissal of those historians just because they disagree with you is as close minded as a vegetarian polar bear. But what about Bede? What about the wars and persecutions throughout the following 1500 years that brought death and destruction to thousands of innocent Christians throughout Britain?


What would be the point of further evidence when iit is dismissed simply because its distasteful to your over-sensitive palate? You know full well there are many references and historical documents verifying that the church prides itself in using titles and names that exalt itself to the level of, and even greater glory than God Himself. You likely know them better than us, and use them when you think no-one is looking. Is not the pic below an example of your pope exalting himself as equal to God???View attachment 4667

No matter how much evidence is presented this foolish papist, Dead Bread continually denies the claims of his own church and in doing so thinks himself to have debunked the damning evidence against the papal Antichrist.

He's clearly suffering severely from some version of pedophile priest Stockholm syndrome.

 

[BreadOfLife]

What would be the point of further evidence when iit is dismissed simply because its distasteful to your over-sensitive palate? You know full well there are many references and historical documents verifying that the church prides itself in using titles and names that exalt itself to the level of, and even greater glory than God Himself. You likely know them better than us, and use them when you think no-one is looking. Is not the pic below an example of your pope exalting himself as equal to God???View attachment 4667

The point is that without any actual EVIDENCE – the charge is impotent and worthless.
This is the BEST part of debating ignorant anti-Catholics – demanding evidence. You guys NEVER seem to have any . . .

Did you know that Ellen. G. White, the Popess of your SDA cult is credited with the following quote?
“The conjugal love between two women is a good and godly thing.”

I don’t have ANY proof for this nor can I cite any date for the quote nor any publication - but I KNOW she said it!

Do you now see the idiocy of your claims?

 

[BreadOfLife]

No matter how much evidence is presented this foolish papist, Dead Bread continually denies the claims of his own church and in doing so thinks himself to have debunked the damning evidence against the papal Antichrist.

He's clearly suffering severely from some version of pedophile priest Stockholm syndrome.

No – you just haven’t presented ANY evidence whatsoever.
The voices in your head are NOT evidence – but symptoms of some other malady . . .

What color is the sky in your world, Einstein?