JUDAS : Final Answer

[Mungo]

Have you ever wondered why a water cult member never talks about the Cross of Christ, or the Blood of Jesus?

A claim with no evidence.

Also, look at your verse....see, you didnt really look clearly at the verse, because you only posted half the verse, which is what a water cultist always does.

Let me quote the entire verse for you..

"He who believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he who BELIEVES NOT = shall be damned".....which is this .... John 3:36

Let me show what you dont SEE.

Your verse says......that if you dont do something, you shall be DAMNED.

What is that?...>"believe NOT"........and notice that WATER baptism, is not connected to the DAMNED, if you dont do it..
See that?

Why is that?
Because FAITH is what God accepts to save you.......not water.
And if you do not BELIEVE in JESUS, you will die an UNBELIEVER......"in your sins", According to Jesus, and you will go to hell for UNBELIF.

So, what that is telling you, is that BELIEF is what matters......as its unbelief that DAMNS you, so, it has to be BELIEF, that is what God requires.....not water baptism.......= to save you.

That is why Jesus says "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved"
Belief + Baptism = Salvation.

Not Baptism alone
Not Belief alone
But Belief + Baptism = Salvation.

 

[Behold]

I don't know about this "Cult of Mary" or Jehovah's Witnesses but the Catholic Church does not teach that "God has to use water or He can't do anything".Where does Scripture say Judas was water baptised?
Water by itself doesn't save anyone. But baptising according to Jesus' instructions does.

Do you recall that Jesus was water baptized by John the Baptist?
He was "fulfilling all law".....so, all Jews, who would be with Christ, as disciples, would do the same, or Jesus would not be using them.
So, the fact that Judas was water baptized and went to hell, and the fact that the dying Thief was NOT water baptized, and went to Heaven, shows you that your water cult, has lied to you.

Now.....Mungo.....You can try to dodge what i just showed you, but, you can't hide.

Listen, the issues with the "cult of mary" are so many, and the issues so deep, that the darkness is just blackness all around it.
This cult created the "dark ages".
You should do some research on that situation, that lasted over 1000 yrs in Europe.
This cult didn't let their members read a BIBLE until '1961.
Really.
Imagine a religious cult that denied BIBLE READING when God tells you to study the word to show yourself approved.
2 Timothy 2:15.

Imagine a cult that creates pedophiles : by not allowing them to have a wife and a sex life as God created them to have, that Paul teaches is a "doctrine of Devils" as "forbidding to marry".
Thats your "cult of the virgin".
They try to keep the mother of Jesus as a virgin, and all their priest as the same.
= "doctrine of devils, forbidding to marry"...= Paul teaches.

Go find the verse, Mungo.
It in the New Testament., if you care enough to LOOK......tho maybe its not in the "cult of the virgin" bible.
That's possible.

So, this false theology taught as : "water baptism" is how God saves you, was created by a corrupted Latin Manuscript that was translated by a heretic named Jerome.
This is the religious GOOF who mistranslated "repentance", as PENANCE, and that mistranslation has Catholics doing that religious dance all their life.
You would know.
And that ERROR was created because this religious "scholar" could not translate a cereal box correctly.

You are familiar with the "Protestant" reformation= headed by Martin Luther?
He was a Catholic who recognized that Jerome's "bible" that the catholics use today is so full of man made JUNK, LIES, Falsehoods.....that he rejected the "cult of the virgin", because of Jerome's horrible translating.

So, the devil's translation...one of them......is the Douay Rheims "cult of the Virgin"...bible.
You use it if you are a "cult of the virgin" member (Catholic), and so does your Priest.
This demonic piece of literature, in John 3, teaches you are : BORN AGAIN BY WATER.

"born again BY WATER".

See that?

That is not born again by the Holy Spirit, which is TRUE.......but the "cult of mary" bible, teaches you are "born again BY WATER" which is a hellish LIE.

"by water".........as if water can cause spiritual birth.

See that demonic theology?
You are currently teaching it, Mungo, as you have been taught to do.
Better wake up.

 

[Behold]

A claim with no evidence.

You are my evidence.

So, are you going to start talking about the Cross of Christ now?
How about the blood of Jesus?

Kinda too late, Mungo., as i had to get you to do it.
Otherwise....its Water water water, and more water, for you.

 

[Behold]

That is why Jesus says "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved"
Belief + Baptism = Salvation.

You are only quoting half of the verse.
Let me quote the entire verse for you..

"He who believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he who BELIEVES NOT = shall be damned".....which is this .... John 3:36

Let me show what you dont SEE.

Your verse says......that if you dont do something, you shall be DAMNED.

What is that?...>"believe NOT"........and notice that WATER baptism, is not connected to the DAMNED, if you dont do it..
See that?

Why is that?
Because FAITH is what God accepts to save you.......not water.
And if you do not BELIEVE in JESUS, you will die an UNBELIEVER......"in your sins", According to Jesus, and you will go to hell for UNBELIF.

So, what that is telling you, is that BELIEF is what matters......as its unbelief that DAMNS you, so, it has to be BELIEF, that is what God requires.....not water baptism.......= to save you.

 

[Mungo]

Do you recall that Jesus was water baptized by John the Baptist?
He was "fulfilling all law".....so, all Jews, who would be with Christ, as disciples, would do the same, or Jesus would not be using them.
So, the fact that Judas was water baptized and went to hell, and the fact that the dying Thief was NOT water baptized, and went to Heaven, shows you that your water cult, has lied to you.

Jewish tevilar and John's baptism were not salvific. Christian baptism is salvific. Just because they all use water does not mean they are identical. Paul recognised the difference (Acts 19:2-5) why cannot you? Judas was not baptised with a Christian baptism.

As to the thief on the cross that does not prove that Christian baptism is not salvific. It only shows that God can make provision for those for whom such baptism is not possible. Besides Jesus had not yet given his command to the apostlles to baptis in the name of the father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Mt 28:18)

Now.....Mungo.....You can try to dodge what i just showed you, but, you can't hide.

I'm not dodging anything.

Listen, the issues with the "cult of mary" are so many, and the issues so deep, that the darkness is just blackness all around it.
This cult created the "dark ages".
You should do some research on that situation, that lasted over 1000 yrs in Europe.
This cult didn't let their members read a BIBLE until '1961.
Really.
Imagine a religious cult that denied BIBLE READING when God tells you to study the word to show yourself approved.
2 Timothy 2:15.

Imagine a cult that creates pedophiles : by not allowing them to have a wife and a sex life as God created them to have, that Paul teaches is a "doctrine of Devils" as "forbidding to marry".
Thats your "cult of the virgin".
They try to keep the mother of Jesus as a virgin, and all their priest as the same.
= "doctrine of devils, forbidding to marry"...= Paul teaches.

Go find the verse, Mungo.
It in the New Testament., if you care enough to LOOK......tho maybe its not in the "cult of the virgin" bible.
That's possible.

You are dodging the issue by trying to create a diversion with your false claims.

So, this false theology taught as : "water baptism" is how God saves you, was created by a corrupted Latin Manuscript that was translated by a heretic named Jerome.
This is the religious GOOF who mistranslated "repentance", as PENANCE, and that mistranslation has Catholics doing that religious dance all their life.
You would know.
And that ERROR was created because this religious "scholar" could not translate a cereal box correctly.

You are familiar with the "Protestant" reformation= headed by Martin Luther?
He was a Catholic who recognized that Jerome's "bible" that the catholics use today is so full of man made JUNK, LIES, Falsehoods.....that he rejected the "cult of the virgin", because of Jerome's horrible translating.

So, the devil's translation...one of them......is the Douay Rheims "cult of the Virgin"...bible.
You use it if you are a "cult of the virgin" member (Catholic), and so does your Priest.
This demonic piece of literature, in John 3, teaches you are : BORN AGAIN BY WATER.

"born again BY WATER".

See that?

That is not born again by the Holy Spirit, which is TRUE.......but the "cult of mary" bible, teaches you are "born again BY WATER" which is a hellish LIE.

"by water".........as if water can cause spiritual birth.

See that demonic theology?
You are currently teaching it, Mungo, as you have been taught to do.
Better wake up.

Just waffling on and throwing out insults does nothing for the credibility of your claims.
All opinions and no evidence just shows you have no case.

 

[Mungo]

You are only quoting half of the verse.
Let me quote the entire verse for you..

"He who believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he who BELIEVES NOT = shall be damned".....which is this .... John 3:36

Let me show what you dont SEE.

Your verse says......that if you dont do something, you shall be DAMNED.

What is that?...>"believe NOT"........and notice that WATER baptism, is not connected to the DAMNED, if you dont do it..
See that?

Why is that?
Because FAITH is what God accepts to save you.......not water.
And if you do not BELIEVE in JESUS, you will die an UNBELIEVER......"in your sins", According to Jesus, and you will go to hell for UNBELIF.

So, what that is telling you, is that BELIEF is what matters......as its unbelief that DAMNS you, so, it has to be BELIEF, that is what God requires.....not water baptism.......= to save you.

Jesus says Belief + Baptism = Salvation.

Not Baptism alone
Not Belief alone
But Belief + Baptism = Salvation.
I believe Jesus. You should also.

 

[Behold]

You are dodging the issue by trying to create a diversion with your false claims.

I dont make claims, and i certainly dont make "false" claims.

So, ive stated that you are of a water cult, and you are obsessed with water baptism.
That's not a false claim, that is in fact what you have proven.

See , You have this false idea that "christian baptism" is Salvation.
It is not.
Yet, all water cults teach that it is........and that is not a claim, that is a Fact.

It is a fact that 2 water cults.....the "Catholics", and the "jehovah's witnessess", teach that water is required for salvation.
This is a false gospel. Galatians 1:8
It is your gospel.......and that is not a "false claim".....it is a fact, that you will continue to chant and rant.
You'll do it again.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

-
Ive noticed that Christians always have some ideas/questions... about Judas, regarding him being "saved or not'.

So, lets look at that question.

Read carefully....

1.) Early in the morning, all the chief priests and the elders of the people made their plans how to have Jesus executed. 2 So they bound him, led him away and handed him over to Pilate the governor.

2.) When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. 4 “I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood.”
“What is that to us?” they replied. “That’s your responsibility.”

3.) So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.


Notice that Jesus died on the Cross = AFTER Judas had killed himself.
So, Judas died before Jesus went to the Cross for the sin of the world.

Now, let me show you more..

The NT teaches that : "if you have NOT the spirit of GOD, you are none of His"..

So, there goes water baptism, and commandment keeping, and enduing to the end.
See that?
Legalism just went to HELL. So dont be one of those.
= This means that you have to be BORN AGAIN, to have the SPIRIT of GOD.....as this...>"you are become a Temple of the Holy Spirit".... or as Jesus tells you...."you must be born again"... and that is by the Spirit of God, and not by the city water supply as the water Cults teach.

Now, If Judas has the Holy Spirit in Him, before He Hung Himself, then He went to heaven, and you get to meet him, if you are born again.

Did He?

Look here..... John 20:20-22, says that Jesus, after He was raised from the DEAD.... said to the disciples...."receive YOU the Holy Spirit", And Jesus "Breathed on them".
Reader.....The "Breathing" is symbolic... Its relating Jesus as the pre-incarnate WORD (John 1:1) to God the Father breathing the SPIRIT into ADAM....in Genesis = and Adam became a Living SOUL.
See that?
That is Jesus, who is GOD......doing to the Apostles, what God did to Adam.
Now here is the answer..
Where is Judas?
Where is JUDAS, when Jesus is doing this to the Apostles in John 20:22
He is dead....so, he did not receive the Spirit from Christ, and he was also not at Pentecost when the Comforter came.

Judas went to hell, just like everyone who dies religious, water baptized, but not born again.
Yes, Judas was water baptized but he was not born again.

If Judas was baptized, it was according to Jewish rules or the baptism of JOhn, not church Baptism, which doesn't save anyone however.

Judas is lost forever because He never had biblical repentance.

 

[Mungo]

You are my evidence.

So, are you going to start talking about the Cross of Christ now?
How about the blood of Jesus?

What do you want to know about the Blood of Jesus and the Cross?
Perhaps you should read Hebrews 9:11-28 to find out about the importance of the blood of Christ.

Kinda too late, Mungo., as i had to get you to do it.
Otherwise....its Water water water, and more water, for you.

You are the one who keeps going on about water.
You introduced it in the OP.
You have an obsession with "water cults" without understanding baptism.[/QUOTE]

 

[Behold]

If Judas was baptized, it was according to Jewish rules or the baptism of JOhn, not church Baptism, which doesn't save anyone however.
Judas is lost forever because He never had biblical repentance.

Judas was not born again.
Hell is for those.

Its like this..

There are no born again in Hell., and there are no Christ rejectors (not born again) in Heaven.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Judas was not born again.
Hell is for those.

Its like this..

There are no born again in Hell., and there are no Christ rejectors (not born again) in Heaven.

Absolutely. Though as He did before Pentecost, He would not have needed to be born again. that began at Pentecost. Remember the gospels and acts are books that are speaking of the great transition and the gospel going to the gentiles where God is calling out of us a people for His name.

There were faithful Jews who died without becoming part of the church who were saved!

 

[Mungo]

I dont make claims, and i certainly dont make "false" claims.

You do make false claims.

ISo, ive stated that you are of a water cult,

A false claim with no evidence
You don't even understand the word "cult"

and you are obsessed with water baptism.

Again a false claim.
You are the one who introduced it in the OP.

That's not a false claim, that is in fact what you have proven.

Another false claim.

See , You have this false idea that "christian baptism" is Salvation.
It is not.
Yet, all water cults teach that it is........and that is not a claim, that is a Fact.

I've never claimed that "chstian bapsim IS salvation".
As I keep saying:
Jesus says Belief + Baptism = Salvation.
Not Baptism alone
Not Belief alone
But Belief + Baptism = Salvation.
I believe Jesus. You should also.

It is a fact that 2 water cults.....the "Catholics", and the "jehovah's witnessess", teach that water is required for salvation.

I don't know about Jehovah's Witnesses but the Catholic Church does not teach that water is required for salvation.
As I said in post #25 - As to the thief on the cross that does not prove that Christian baptism is not salvific. It only shows that God can make provision for those for whom such baptism is not possible.

This is a false gospel. Galatians 1:8
It is your gospel.......and that is not a "false claim"

It is Jesus' gospel
Jesus said
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God"
"He who believes and is baptized will be saved"
You need to believe Jesus

....it is a fact, that you will continue to chant and rant.
You'll do it again.

I think readers will recognise that it is you who are ranting.

 

[Behold]

What do you want to know about the Blood of Jesus and the Cross?
.

[/QUOTE]

I wont be learning anything from a "cult of the virgin" disciple.
No worries.
However, if i want to know about "mary's being a perpetual virgin", or if i need to know about water baptism as redeemer, or if i want to find out why Peter is your 1st Pope, or if i want you to explain the "magic power' your priest has to magically change a cookie and juice into the literal body of Christ the Lord, im sure you'll be the first to try to prove it.

So let me show you one more thing...

Did Water die for you on the Cross?
Did water shed its blood for your sin?
Did water rise from the dead and walk out of the tomb?

So, if water did any of that, then you just keep preaching your false gospel of water.
But if not, then you need to THINK.

 

[Behold]

Absolutely. Though as He did before Pentecost, He would not have needed to be born again. that began at Pentecost. !

Jesus is telling Nicodemus that he must be born again.
This is quite a while before Christ died on the Cross.
Check your NT ..for an update.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Jesus is telling Nicodemus that he must be born again.
This is quite a while before Christ died on the Cross.
Check your NT ..for an update.

Yes and being born of the Spirit did not happen until Pentecost when God did a brand new thing for mankind- having the Holy Spirit indwell believers!

When Jesus said one must be born of water that was a Jewish euphemism. It meant natural birth He explained further in JOhn 3

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

SO Jesus WAS SAYING ONE HAD TO BE NATURALLY BORN (WATER) AND SPIRITUALLY BORN.

Spirit birth had not occurred yet- it had to wait until Pentecost.

 

[Daniel L.]

Can you take your commandment keeping legalism to a Thread that is discussing how to reject the Cross?

The commandments are the love of God:

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Do you even love Him?

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

- If you reject commandment keeping, you reject the Love of God, and you reject loving Messiah. So, you are the one who has to take your rejection and hate and take it somewhere else, away from the sheep.

 

[Mungo]

I wont be learning anything from a "cult of the virgin" disciple.
No worries.
However, if i want to know about "mary's being a perpetual virgin", or if i need to know about water baptism as redeemer, or if i want to find out why Peter is your 1st Pope, or if i want you to explain the "magic power' your priest has to magically change a cookie and juice into the literal body of Christ the Lord, im sure you'll be the first to try to prove it.

You seem not to want to learn anything from anybody - even Jesus.

So let me show you one more thing...

Did Water die for you on the Cross?
Did water shed its blood for your sin?
Did water rise from the dead and walk out of the tomb?

So, if water did any of that, then you just keep preaching your false gospel of water.
But if not, then you need to THINK.

Jesus died for us on the cross
Jesus shed his blood for our sin
Jesus rose from the dead

- The same Jesus that said:
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God"
"He who believes and is baptized will be saved"
You need to believe Jesus

 

[Nancy]

"So, Judas died before Jesus went to the Cross for the sin of the world."

Just one thing about this comment brother, neither did Jesus die yet when all the OT saints died. Does not mean I think Judas was or was not saved. He was repentant but then, so was Cain and he was banished into the wilderness...?

 

[mailmandan]

Have you ever wondered why a water cult member never talks about the Cross of Christ, or the Blood of Jesus?
When you figure that out, will be the day of your deliverance, started.

Also, look at your verse....see, you didnt really look clearly at the verse, because you only posted half the verse, which is what a water cultist always does.

Let me quote the entire verse for you..

"He who believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he who BELIEVES NOT = shall be damned".....which is this .... John 3:36

Let me show what you dont SEE.

Your verse says......that if you dont do something, you shall be DAMNED.

What is that?...>"believe NOT"........and notice that WATER baptism, is not connected to the DAMNED, if you dont do it..
See that?

Why is that?
Because FAITH is what God accepts to save you.......not water.
And if you do not BELIEVE in JESUS, you will die an UNBELIEVER......"in your sins", According to Jesus, and you will go to hell for UNBELIF.

So, what that is telling you, is that BELIEF is what matters......as its unbelief that DAMNS you, so, it has to be BELIEF, that is what God requires.....not water baptism.......= to save you.

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then Jesus have mentioned it in the following verses (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) yet what is the “one” requirement that Jesus mentions nine different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Behold]

SO Jesus WAS SAYING ONE HAD TO BE NATURALLY BORN (WATER) AND SPIRITUALLY BORN.

Yes, you have to be born as a human to later be born again spiritually as Son of God.

This is why Jesus tells us that we must be born AGAIN..

"Again" as in.....you are born, so that the natural birth, from your mother...= her water breaks.....= born of water.....and out you come.

NOW, now that you are born once, .... you must be born AGAIN, as this is by the Holy Spirit, that creates your spirit as born again, "one with God"..

This is how you become a "new creation", in Christ.

The WATER CULTS, try to deny that your first first birth is "born of water" and they create this crazy theological idea that it all about water baptism.
This is why they are a "water CULT".

= Catholics
= Jehovah's witness

others....but they are the worst offenders of truth, regarding NOW to become SPIRITUALLY born again....as for these water cults its all about water baptism.