Just curious.....

[L.A.M.B.]

Anger against injustice, criminalbehaviour etc is not wrong.

The love that enables a Christian to love the unloved is not man made but supernatural, it comes from God.

Amen.
We can not love godly within our flesh, without it comes by a power higher than ours through his Spirit.
Zechariah 4:6
6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, BUT BY MY SPIRIT, saith the LORD of hosts.

 

[Wynona]

Really enjoy this thread. I see myself and Christians I know carefully considering this topic at the same time.

 

[amigo de christo]

Thank you.
This is correct thinking on the giving of finances to certain types of ppl who are bound in addictions.
I had to do the same with my grandson who uses, I was just enabling him.
It hurts the loved ones that have to say " NO" deeply.

I do think there is a correct form of giving where it blesses both parties and God gives the increase.

Yes indeed dear sister . There also be a time to give and a time not to give .
Meaning we do not enable . Your right sister . I used to give money
to folks only to watch some buy alcohol with it .
Its better we provide food or etc . And if one WONT WORK , and we both know what that means
as in they just wont get up and work but rather mooch off others . DO NOT GIVE to such .

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen.
We can not love godly within our flesh, without it comes by a power higher than ours through his Spirit.
Zechariah 4:6
6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, BUT BY MY SPIRIT, saith the LORD of hosts.

IF one wont even provide for his own but rather tries to mooch , my advice is do not give to such a one .
There are FULL GROWN able bodied men who ARE able to work , THEY wont even get up and get a job
to provide and take care of their own familes , YET beg those in the church to give money to them .
This is evil indeed . IF we CAN , are ABLE to work , THEN work we should . Take care of those IN NEED
but not those in greed or those who simply to lazy to get up and work . EVEN pual worked with his own hands .
And when he asked for money , IT WAS not for him , it was for the saints in dire need .
This not working stuff has to GO . Now we already know some folks who are disabled , unable to work
or perhaps those who are on the run , persecuted cast out of society and had to flee .
THEM we can and should help . But if a man WONT work , WELL then HE DONT EAT .

 

[amigo de christo]

Bible says in Proverbs 3:27-28 American Standard Version (ASV), one can read other translation also, it helps in better understanding.
"Withhold not good from them to whom it is due, When it is in the power of thy hand to do it. Say"

This is a true proverb . To whom it is due . Yet it aint due to those who refuse to work .
I have seen full grown men who are able to work and yet wont work . We cannot enable such . As i am sure you would agree .

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes if you give heroin, meth addicts and career criminals money you will be supporting organized crime. But honestly I don't think governments should be restricting God created plants from the populations, like cannibals and opium plants. That's kind of overstepping their God given authority.

SO when does that list stop . cause cocaine cometh of a plant . and me oh my watch out for opium too .

 

[amigo de christo]

Really enjoy this thread. I see myself and Christians I know carefully considering this topic at the same time.

March onwards in the LORD sister . Let the glorious King be praised .

 

[Mink57]

Yes indeed dear sister . There also be a time to give and a time not to give .
Meaning we do not enable . Your right sister . I used to give money
to folks only to watch some buy alcohol with it .
Its better we provide food or etc .

Amigo, I know your heart is in the right place. But believe me -- as a former homeless person -- providing food is not always the best thing to do....even if it's pre-packaged.

The reason I say this is because more and more people have food allergies and/or sensitivities. Including homeless people. A PB&J sandwich on whole wheat bread is a lovely idea...unless you have a wheat allergy. And people can be allergic to just about anything these days. Wheat, soy, dairy, shellfish, beans (and yes, peanuts are beans), strawberries, etc. Even caffeine (found in many sodas) can yield life or death circumstance for some. It's one of the valid reasons why a homeless person will turn down the offer of food.

And if one WONT WORK , and we both know what that means
as in they just wont get up and work but rather mooch off others . DO NOT GIVE to such .

How would one know is someone "won't" work as opposed to can't work? Some situations are obvious. But many aren't.

I think Wynona' policy is best:

I guess without overthinking it, Id say God calls us to help with what we can when we can. So each day, as we come across someone in need, we decide to help them accordingly.

So if you see someone in need, just help them. Buy a meal, give cash, keep bldssing bags handy. Whatever it takes. Mercy triumphs against judgement. We cant use the idea that they might mishandle the resources as an excuse not to help.

HoWever, if someone you know personally refuses to work as an able bodied person, thats when you should refuse to support them.

If someone takes advantage of you without you knowing it, thats their sin, not yours. But Peter writes, wouldnt you rather be wronged than to do wrong against others?

The whole attitude about how, "I don't want to support someone's drug/alcohol "addiction" amazes me. Too many assumptions are made. So WHAT if some homeless guy uses "your" money to buy a beer? Maybe that beer he bought could have actually saved his life, from going through the DT's.

What anyone gives (or doesn't give) is between the 'giver' and GOD. And what someone receives is also between the receiver and God.

Who are WE to judge?

 

[BarneyFife]

Amigo, I know your heart is in the right place. But believe me -- as a former homeless person -- providing food is not always the best thing to do....even if it's pre-packaged.

The reason I say this is because more and more people have food allergies and/or sensitivities. Including homeless people. A PB&J sandwich on whole wheat bread is a lovely idea...unless you have a wheat allergy. And people can be allergic to just about anything these days. Wheat, soy, dairy, shellfish, beans (and yes, peanuts are beans), strawberries, etc. Even caffeine (found in many sodas) can yield life or death circumstance for some. It's one of the valid reasons why a homeless person will turn down the offer of food.


How would one know is someone "won't" work as opposed to can't work? Some situations are obvious. But many aren't.

I think Wynona' policy is best:


The whole attitude about how, "I don't want to support someone's drug/alcohol "addiction" amazes me. Too many assumptions are made. So WHAT if some homeless guy uses "your" money to buy a beer? Maybe that beer he bought could have actually saved his life, from going through the DT's.

What anyone gives (or doesn't give) is between the 'giver' and GOD. And what someone receives is also between the receiver and God.

Who are WE to judge?

Double AMEN!!

Nice post

There are so many variables at play in giving. Even if a person has no allergies, etc., you can turn a homeless (or even simply poor) person inside out trying to feed them healthy stuff sometimes. The human body is designed to do the best it possibly can to survive on even the bad stuff it's used to receiving.

I actually tried to give a wino some Welch's grape juice one time many, many years ago. I'll never forget the look on his face. He was so offended he wouldn't even take it to trade for something else (he probably couldn't have gotten anything for it). My friend ended up giving him $10 and having a heart-to-heart with me.

People often need extensive (sometimes even planned and organized, which is frowned upon by many hereabouts) help if and when they finally find the courage to transition from surviving to thriving.

Most of us in the West are so detached from poverty that we have no idea how to help and so we make our lists of morally-correct operational standards from our ivory towers and prescribe them to other, impressionable ones who are still on fire for God while the LORD Jesus gags and wonders who we are, and the proverbial widows and the fatherless sink deeper into the sand.

Christ wasn't just talking about material worth and quantity (or even courtroom drama) when He said "let him have thy cloke also." Giving ideally benefits the giver at least as much as the receiver. In a world that's becoming so cold and dark, we need all the spiritual warmth and light we can get to survive spiritually.

And selfless service is a law of nature we're going to have to embrace if we expect to one day fit in with the company of ministering angels.

.

 

[amigo de christo]

Amigo, I know your heart is in the right place. But believe me -- as a former homeless person -- providing food is not always the best thing to do....even if it's pre-packaged.

The reason I say this is because more and more people have food allergies and/or sensitivities. Including homeless people. A PB&J sandwich on whole wheat bread is a lovely idea...unless you have a wheat allergy. And people can be allergic to just about anything these days. Wheat, soy, dairy, shellfish, beans (and yes, peanuts are beans), strawberries, etc. Even caffeine (found in many sodas) can yield life or death circumstance for some. It's one of the valid reasons why a homeless person will turn down the offer of food.


How would one know is someone "won't" work as opposed to can't work? Some situations are obvious. But many aren't.

I think Wynona' policy is best:


The whole attitude about how, "I don't want to support someone's drug/alcohol "addiction" amazes me. Too many assumptions are made. So WHAT if some homeless guy uses "your" money to buy a beer? Maybe that beer he bought could have actually saved his life, from going through the DT's.

What anyone gives (or doesn't give) is between the 'giver' and GOD. And what someone receives is also between the receiver and God.

Who are WE to judge?

Ask them . Do you have food allergies .
Also you might not know who is on drugs and or who is not .
I am not at all hammering anyone who gives money to the homeless .
But if we actually spend a bit of time with them
you will soon know . If one is an alcoholic you will be able to smell it .
Plus we should be preaching JESUS to them as well . Putting the gospel back at the forefront .
And doing the good works . So yes its dire important we talk to them about Christ Jesus .
IF you do smell alcohol on them , ITS at that time you ought not to give them money .
Provide food . And beleive me you will be able to discern if you hang around them a bit .
Be encouraged my friend .

 

[TLHKAJ]

Amigo, I know your heart is in the right place. But believe me -- as a former homeless person -- providing food is not always the best thing to do....even if it's pre-packaged.

The reason I say this is because more and more people have food allergies and/or sensitivities. Including homeless people. A PB&J sandwich on whole wheat bread is a lovely idea...unless you have a wheat allergy. And people can be allergic to just about anything these days. Wheat, soy, dairy, shellfish, beans (and yes, peanuts are beans), strawberries, etc. Even caffeine (found in many sodas) can yield life or death circumstance for some. It's one of the valid reasons why a homeless person will turn down the offer of food.


How would one know is someone "won't" work as opposed to can't work? Some situations are obvious. But many aren't.

I think Wynona' policy is best:


The whole attitude about how, "I don't want to support someone's drug/alcohol "addiction" amazes me. Too many assumptions are made. So WHAT if some homeless guy uses "your" money to buy a beer? Maybe that beer he bought could have actually saved his life, from going through the DT's.

What anyone gives (or doesn't give) is between the 'giver' and GOD. And what someone receives is also between the receiver and God.

Who are WE to judge?

I agree. And I so appreciate your input because you've lived it.

I gave $20 to a family begging on the corner at WM. A few days later, they were back at a different location ....and they kept coming back ....and with a nice car. They were middle eastern, and Idk if they had recently become homeless and still had their expensive car, or they were swindling innocent people. Have you seen situations like this?

 

[Mink57]

Ask them . Do you have food allergies .

Do you really think that some people even have the time or the inkling to ask?

Also you might not know who is on drugs and or who is not .

You're right. But why assume? Statistically, MOST of those who beg on the street are NOT into drugs. MOST are NOT mentally ill. MOST are not criminals. MOST are not alcoholics. MOST are not 'scammers.'

And MOST are not trying to carve out a living through begging.

I am not at all hammering anyone who gives money to the homeless .
But if we actually spend a bit of time with them
you will soon know .

Yeah? And how many people actually try to get to know a homeless person's story?

If one is an alcoholic you will be able to smell it .

LOL! Soooo untrue!

Plus we should be preaching JESUS to them as well . Putting the gospel back at the forefront .
And doing the good works . So yes its dire important we talk to them about Christ Jesus .
IF you do smell alcohol on them , ITS at that time you ought not to give them money .
Provide food . And beleive me you will be able to discern if you hang around them a bit .
Be encouraged my friend .

You make it sound like ALL homeless are depraved...and aren't already Christian.

 

[Mink57]

I agree. And I so appreciate your input because you've lived it.

I gave $20 to a family begging on the corner at WM. A few days later, they were back at a different location ....and they kept coming back ....and with a nice car. They were middle eastern, and Idk if they had recently become homeless and still had their expensive car, or they were swindling innocent people. Have you seen situations like this?

Yes, I have. Not only have I seen it, but I lived it.

When I first became homeless, I had a car. But I also had car payments. And car insurance payments. Those that I could not afford. Was only able to keep that car for two months before the car was repossessed.

I did not 'beg' to pay for my car. I begged so I could eat. I begged so I could get money to put gas in my car to drive to an interview to get a job. A kind stranger put 20 dollars of gas in my car. I was able to drive to the interview 10 miles away. The person who was supposed to interview me never showed up.

I was soooooo angry at God that day. There I was, homeless, and actually looking for work! How could you DO this to me, Lord?

Not everything is as it seems, TLHKAJ. There's a story there.

 

[amigo de christo]

Do you really think that some people even have the time or the inkling to ask?

You're right. But why assume? Statistically, MOST of those who beg on the street are NOT into drugs. MOST are NOT mentally ill. MOST are not criminals. MOST are not alcoholics. MOST are not 'scammers.'

And MOST are not trying to carve out a living through begging.

Yeah? And how many people actually try to get to know a homeless person's story?

LOL! Soooo untrue!

You make it sound like ALL homeless are depraved...and aren't already Christian.

A lot of this is assumption . on your part . i never once said or even thought that ALL of the homeless are not christain .
Again i never said most are trying to carve out a living through begging .
I dont have to know any mans story . PREACH JESUS and know THE TRUTH is all i need to know .
I never said one way or the other that most homeless are on drugs .
Its easy to assume and then to accuse the other of assuming . ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT my friend .
OFten one can be guilty of what he or she thinks and accuses the other person of being .
MY FRIEND i never once said any of those things you THINK i did . SOUNDS LIKE ITS TIME
to HEAR and learn the TRUTH , THE STORY , IN THAT BIBLE and let us learn IT WELL .

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes, I have. Not only have I seen it, but I lived it.

When I first became homeless, I had a car. But I also had car payments. And car insurance payments. Those that I could not afford. Was only able to keep that car for two months before the car was repossessed.

I did not 'beg' to pay for my car. I begged so I could eat. I begged so I could get money to put gas in my car to drive to an interview to get a job. A kind stranger put 20 dollars of gas in my car. I was able to drive to the interview 10 miles away. The person who was supposed to interview me never showed up.

I was soooooo angry at God that day. There I was, homeless, and actually looking for work! How could you DO this to me, Lord?

Not everything is as it seems, TLHKAJ. There's a story there.

My own brother in Christ was homeless too . YEAH .
I can see through what you wrote to me that you are in danger .
Let me explain . YOU told me i need to hear their story . I KNOW From whence that cometh
that cometh of the new way to evangelize . DO ya really think we need to KNOW something about anyone
to be able to witness to them . I mean , FEEL FREE to correct me on what i type next .
DOES NOT GOD KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT THEM ALREADY . AND can NOT GOD GIVE ME the words to speak to Said person .
THIS lamb aint going out under the false way to evangelize that ROME and the protestant realm sold us .
i WILL DIE FIRST . I trust only in GOD , not me , not man , not my abilites . AND I SHUN the all inclusive delusion to hades
if i could . THE DOCTRINE , not the people .

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes, I have. Not only have I seen it, but I lived it.

When I first became homeless, I had a car. But I also had car payments. And car insurance payments. Those that I could not afford. Was only able to keep that car for two months before the car was repossessed.

I did not 'beg' to pay for my car. I begged so I could eat. I begged so I could get money to put gas in my car to drive to an interview to get a job. A kind stranger put 20 dollars of gas in my car. I was able to drive to the interview 10 miles away. The person who was supposed to interview me never showed up.

I was soooooo angry at God that day. There I was, homeless, and actually looking for work! How could you DO this to me, Lord?

Not everything is as it seems, TLHKAJ. There's a story there.

Rather odd indeed . my brother in Christ who was homeless and living in his car , HE NEVER ONCE got angry at GOD
or blamed and charged GOD foolishly . Something AINT RIGHT .
This is not to accuse you . I mean okay you ERRED HUGE . but you can repent of it and never do it again .
But my question to YOU is WHY DO YOU SIT UNDER THE RCC . something aint right and its time
you get planted in the bible for YOURSELF and FIND OUT by examing yourself THROUGH THEM WORDS what is NOT RIGHT .
But you aint gonna do that are you . You gonna sit under the RCC just like a lot of protestants sit under their fake leaders too .
WE NEED TO GET IN THE BIBLE and learn THAT GOD and HIS CHRIST and all sound doctrine FOR OURSELVES
or prepare to wail is all i can say . AND THAT my friend is not what i desire for you . I DESIRE LIFE FOR YOU
THUS , i POINT ya to CHRIST . AND the BIBLE contains the WORDS OF CHRIST . HURRY and dont look back .

 

[GTW27]

The Lord will lead you what to do and not to do. Be led by The Spirit. The man begging at the local Walmart can be a test for those getting out of church on a Sunday and we pass him by.

 

[amigo de christo]

The Lord will lead you what to do and not to do. Be led by The Spirit. The man begging at the local Walmart can be a test for those getting out of church on a Sunday and we pass him by.

VERY TRUE INDEED .

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen.
We can not love godly within our flesh, without it comes by a power higher than ours through his Spirit.
Zechariah 4:6
6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, BUT BY MY SPIRIT, saith the LORD of hosts.

Here is a question we should all ponder on and consider .
You know as well as do i , that many THINK and can say i LOVE GOD , I LOVE JESUS CHRIST
but then do contrary to GOD .
SO how do we know .
HOW do we truly know if our love comes of GOD and puts GOD , CHRIST FIRST ABOVE ALL
and then loves our neighor as ourself .
OH i just bet you already know the answer .
But allow this flea to remind us anyway .
WHERE Is the PROOF that one loveth GOD , CHRIST
when NONE OF US HAS SEEN HIM .
Real simple .
DO WE LOVE THE TRUTH HE INSPIRED . DO WE LOVE HIS WORDS in that bible .
DO we put HIM FIRST or do we compromise HIS WORDS for what MEN teach .
IN other words , ITS HIGH TIME folks get in that BIBLE and make sure THAT BE THE GOD , THE CHRIST they be a loving
and be a following .

 

[Mink57]

Rather odd indeed . my brother in Christ who was homeless and living in his car , HE NEVER ONCE got angry eat GOD
or blamed and charged GOD foolishly . Something AINT RIGHT .
This is not to accuse you . I mean okay you ERRED HUGE . but you can repent of it and never do it again .

Oh, knock it off, Amigo. I didn't "err HUGE." Had I known the answer to TWO questions back then, I wouldn't have been homeless. Had nothing to do with "erring" or "repenting". SHEESH! I was stupid in my own rite. No blaming G

But my question to YOU is WHY DO YOU SIT UNDER THE RCC . something aint right and its time
you get planted in the bible for YOURSELF and FIND OUT by examing yourself THROUGH THEM WORDS what is NOT RIGHT .

I HAVE read the bible. Cover to cover. SEVERAL times. I LIKE the RCC for various reasons. I like the Catechism. I like what the church father's have to say about the faith. I like the idea of baptism...and the eucharist actually BEING the 'body' of Christ....

I like it because it makes sense to me.

You make it sound like ALL Catholics do is what EVER the Pope says. And dismiss what the BIBLE says. As if ALL Catholics do is to 'follow the leader'...without question.

That is such bunk.

To tell you WHY I believe in Catholicism would take a novel; not an essay. I don't follow it because "The Pope Says So." I follow it because it because after doing my own research on it, it makes sense to me.

Apostolic succession makes sense. Eucharistic celebration makes sense. Faith PLUS works makes sense, not that we'll get into heaven because of it. Faith "alone" doesn't make sense to me. It's like...sitting on your butt and not doing anything to get a job. I believe strongly in the adage, "Pray to God, and row to the shore." Meaning, that we should take action, while asking God to HELP us...

...and not expecting God to do 'it' FOR us. The bible doesn't say that God will *poof* everything you want into existence just through wishing...or believing.