Justification by Faith Alone

[GracePeace]

1. So, you want me to believe that Christians never sin? Do you sin?
2. So, the Church was in sin, and the Church was rebuked, and the Church repented, according to 2 Corinthians, but Christians never sin?
3. If you sin, and if the Church in Corinth sinned, then isn't your interpretation of 1 John erroneous?

Here you imply that you sin:

The standard is perfection. I pray you keep that standard. Because you are trying t6o save yourself.

Here you are explicit that you sin.

my problem is i do not have perfect love. Or faith. Hence why fear can overtake us if we are not careful

Conclusions:
1. You do sin.
2. Your interpretation of 1 John is erroneous.

 

[GracePeace]

@Eternally Grateful

Here you imply that you sin:

Here you are explicit that you sin.


Conclusions:
1. You do sin.
2. Your interpretation of 1 John is erroneous.

If we say we haven't sinned, we are making God out to be a liar, and His Word does not abide in us. 1 John 1:10.

 

[GracePeace]

In what context was that said? The siege of Jerusalem.

1. So, you agree that the saved-by-faith-alone Christians still had an upcoming salvation they had to partake of?
2. As I mentioned, the context is that there will be false prophets (people claiming to speak for God--according to Mt 7 they work powerful signs and wonders), and because they are misleading many people, the love of many will "grow" cold--IN THIS CONTEXT Jesus says "But the one who endures until the end will be saved". This is an issue of faith and righteousness. Even Luke's Gospel has Jesus asking "But will the Son of Man find faith on earth when He returns?"

 

[GracePeace]

We been here bro

condemns yourself

I have been there when I condemned myself because of sins

What is a sin?
An offense God.
Who judges when you sin against God?
God.

When it says "condemns himself" it means "brings condemnation on himself"--because, in the scenario, the man is "destroying the work of God" Romans 14:20 by being a "stumbling block" Romans 14:21 to his brother (and Luke 17:1 says you will be removed from the Kingdom if you are a "stumbling block").

 

[GracePeace]

@Eternally Grateful I think the Scriptures are clearly on my side--but I also think it's easy to become fearful, but it is not really what God wants (there're multitudes of Scriptures that prove this).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You speak of your faith in God. You say you have a lot of faith in somethings. Not so much with others.


But before faith came, we were kept under the law,

Before Faith came. Where was it before then? Men had none because the gift hadn’t been given yet.


But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness,

faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

The fruits are the gifts from God through his HS.

The reason the scripture states before faith came was because the HS hadn’t been given yet.

When we used the word faith many believe it is just acknowledging the word of God. They have no trust in their heart from God. Back in the apostles day the word faith meant the same as trust. But through the ages words have the tendency to change their meaning through human reasoning. The Old Testament speaks how that the Gentiles will have trust in the Lord, in several places.

So when you speak of the faith you have - is it the gift that comes through the Holy Spirit or through your own reasoning?

Do you remember the scripture where the apostles could not cast out the devil and Christ told them that if they had the faith of a mustard seed they could say unto a mountain be cast into the sea and it would be? When the apostles heard this they asked Christ to increase their faith. How is faith increased? By the will of God? Those he gives understanding to are increased.

What is the lesson of the mustard seed? It show us just how little faith that God gives to receive his righteousness.

So Abraham did not have the gift?

do you trust god in every area of your life completely?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What is a sin?
An offense God.
Who judges when you sin against God?
God.

When it says "condemns himself" it means "brings condemnation on himself"--because, in the scenario, the man is "destroying the work of God" Romans 14:20 by being a "stumbling block" Romans 14:21 to his brother (and Luke 17:1 says you will be removed from the Kingdom if you are a "stumbling block").

All manner of sin will be forgiven men

I trust Jesus, either he paid my sin debt or I am lost with no hope

 

[GracePeace]

All manner of sin will be forgiven men

I trust Jesus, either he paid my sin debt or I am lost with no hope

It says "...because in God’s merciful restraint He let the sins previously committed go unpunished" Romans 3:25--"previously committed" doesn't cover how you live now which is precisely the point of Romans 14:23 and 1 Corinthians 10.

Your sin-debt having been paid results in "justification".
Your "justification" is compromised by sin.
"If we go on sinning willfully after having received the knowledge of the truth there remains no sacrifice for sins..." Hebrews 10.

 

[Daniel Veler]

So Abraham did not have the gift?

do you trust god in every area of your life completely?

I was referring to the time of grace. Yes Abraham did receive the gift but it did not become free to all until Christ. It’s funny how some will pick apart certain things to dwell on. It’s true a person will gag on a gnat and swollen a camel. The scripture I quoted was from the apostle. Are you saying he was wrong?

 

[Daniel Veler]

I was referring to the time of grace. Yes Abraham did receive the gift but it did not become free to all until Christ. It’s funny how some will pick apart certain things to dwell on. It’s true a person will gag on a gnat and swollen a camel. The scripture I quoted was from the apostle. Are you saying he was wrong?

As far as the trust i have in the Lord it is sufficient.

 

[Daniel Veler]

So Abraham did not have the gift?

do you trust god in every area of your life completely?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It says "...because in God’s merciful restraint He let the sins previously committed go unpunished" Romans 3:25--"previously committed" doesn't cover how you live now which is precisely the point of Romans 14:23 and 1 Corinthians 10.

Your sin-debt having been paid results in "justification".
Your "justification" is compromised by sin.
"If we go on sinning willfully after having received the knowledge of the truth there remains no sacrifice for sins..." Hebrews 10.

Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness

face it man if I commit a sin Jesus did not pay for, I am done, there is no hope, I have no ability to pay for one sin not even the smallest of all sins

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I was referring to the time of grace. Yes Abraham did receive the gift but it did not become free to all until Christ. It’s funny how some will pick apart certain things to dwell on. It’s true a person will gag on a gnat and swollen a camel. The scripture I quoted was from the apostle. Are you saying he was wrong?

So Abraham received the gift, thank you

you did not answer my question, do you trust God in every area of your life? are you sinless?

 

[Daniel Veler]

So Abraham received the gift, thank you

you did not answer my question, do you trust God in every area of your life? are you sinless?

I did get you just didn’t hear.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I did get you just didn’t hear.

You just said it is sufficient

I asked in every area of your life,

your answer seemed like a walk around.

 

[Daniel Veler]

You just said it is sufficient

I asked in every area of your life,

your answer seemed like a walk around.

It is written that you shall not tempt the lord thy God. Your question does exactly that. God knows my heart and that the faith he has given me I’ve kept. I have trust smaller then a mustard seed. Which is sufficient with the Lord. If you truly understood the trust you receive then you would understand. But you choose to try and pin people against the wall with your question. God’s grace is sufficient. I’m I a perfect man? I wrestle daily with myself. I desire to good and evil is present. When I desire to do evil good is present. This is the warfare we face in the flesh. The lost does not have this. I haven’t been given understanding in many things. Only those things God has chosen to give me. I’m I sinless while in the flesh. God forbid. If I declare while in the flesh I’m sinless I make God a liar. If you stand and say your sinless in the flesh you lie. You have never kept the law. You are guilty of them all if you just violate one of them.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It is written that you shall not tempt the lord thy God. Your question does exactly that. God knows my heart and that the faith he has given me I’ve kept. I have trust smaller then a mustard seed. Which is sufficient with the Lord. If you truly understood the trust you receive then you would understand. But you choose to try and pin people against the wall with your question. God’s grace is sufficient. I’m I a perfect man? I wrestle daily with myself. I desire to good and evil is present. When I desire to do evil good is present. This is the warfare we face in the flesh. The lost does not have this. I haven’t been given understanding in many things. Only those things God has chosen to give me. I’m I sinless while in the flesh. God forbid. If I declare while in the flesh I’m sinless I make God a liar. If you stand and say your sinless in the flesh you lie. You have never kept the law. You are guilty of them all if you just violate one of them.

its fine. I understand you can not answer, or do not want to or whatever...

The problem is you can not question what I have felt or what I said since you can not answer yourself. The basis of my comment with which you disagree is based on this question. I am not just asking it and demanding an answer.

fact is, If you can not understand what I am saying (which you can't by your answer) you can not question what I said. or claim I am wrong

So I think we just need to leave it be. Because we will never find resolution

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Here you imply that you sin:

Here you are explicit that you sin.


Conclusions:
1. You do sin.
2. Your interpretation of 1 John is erroneous.

1 John is clear

If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves

He also said those who live in sin have never seen God or known God

Whoever is born of God can not live in sin

You may say I added the word Live. But the greek is not just saying a child of God never commits any sin whatsoever (sinless perfection) it speaks of habitual ongoing sin. Like the world.

If it is talking about sinless perfection. John himself is confused

Ever paul admitted he still sinned (rom 7) what I have learned is the closer you grow to God the more sinfgul you realise you realy were (are)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What is a sin?
An offense God.
Who judges when you sin against God?
God.

When it says "condemns himself" it means "brings condemnation on himself"--because, in the scenario, the man is "destroying the work of God" Romans 14:20 by being a "stumbling block" Romans 14:21 to his brother (and Luke 17:1 says you will be removed from the Kingdom if you are a "stumbling block").

we will have to agree to disagree on romans 14.

We can not see eye to eye there.

I have experienced what I see in that verse. so it is not just what I believe it is what I have experienced.

Satan almost took me out because of it

 

[Daniel Veler]

its fine. I understand you can not answer, or do not want to or whatever...

The problem is you can not question what I have felt or what I said since you can not answer yourself. The basis of my comment with which you disagree is based on this question. I am not just asking it and demanding an answer.

fact is, If you can not understand what I am saying (which you can't by your answer) you can not question what I said. or claim I am wrong

So I think we just need to leave it be. Because we will never find resolution